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Old 09-18-2012, 12:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
We were told that BMW does not need a WD hitch for up trailer up to 6000 lbs.

In writing?
Here is the official word from BMW. Check out the third bullet on the first page. It is pretty clear to me that WD hitches are not allowed.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:07 AM   #22
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Maybe the attached article by Andy Thomson of CanAm RV will help.
I wrote a private message to Andy a couple of weeks ago but he never responded.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #23
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Maybe the attached article by Andy Thomson of CanAm RV will help.
It is a very interesting article. But unfortunately it does not ease my mind about using a BMW X5 to tow my 23' Airstream Safari SE. My actual measured tongue weight is between 780 - 880 pounds. It seems such a tongue weight requires a Class 4 hitch receiver, and the BMW only has a Class 3 receiver.

I am now also checking out the Toyota Land Cruiser, although as an everyday vehicle I'm sure the X5 would be better. However, for towing, the Land Cruiser seems to meet all the requirements. However, the unavailability of a diesel engine is a liability. I understand Land Cruisers in much of the world are available with diesel engines.

In January the Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine is rumored to be going on sale. I've never been a fan of Jeeps because of their poor repair record, but it has a Class 4 hitch receiver and requires the use of a WD hitch for tongue weights exceeding 500 pounds. I'll be checking it out when it is available.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by OrangeKid View Post
It is a very interesting article. But unfortunately it does not ease my mind about using a BMW X5 to tow my 23' Airstream Safari SE. My actual measured tongue weight is between 780 - 880 pounds. It seems such a tongue weight requires a Class 4 hitch receiver, and the BMW only has a Class 3 receiver.

I am now also checking out the Toyota Land Cruiser, although as an everyday vehicle I'm sure the X5 would be better. However, for towing, the Land Cruiser seems to meet all the requirements. However, the unavailability of a diesel engine is a liability. I understand Land Cruisers in much of the world are available with diesel engines.

In January the Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine is rumored to be going on sale. I've never been a fan of Jeeps because of their poor repair record, but it has a Class 4 hitch receiver and requires the use of a WD hitch for tongue weights exceeding 500 pounds. I'll be checking it out when it is available.
I purchased my ASCL 31' from CanAm RV back in 2001. I had the same concerns you have as my 2001 X5 states 6,000 lbs. max with max 600 lbs. tongue weight both weight bearing and weight distributed. Andy Thomson went to their London, Ontario, BMW dealer to look at the X5 (it was new on the market in 2000) and called me in Houston saying it was "built like a 1 ton truck" and would have no problem handling my 8,300 GVWR Airstream which has a 720 lb. tongue weight. Over 35,000 trouble free miles later this has been proven to be correct. Your AS is MUCH smaller than mine so it shouldn't be any problem at all for an X5.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #25
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Liability Issue Question...

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Originally Posted by withidl View Post
I purchased my ASCL 31' from CanAm RV back in 2001. I had the same concerns you have as my 2001 X5 states 6,000 lbs. max with max 600 lbs. tongue weight both weight bearing and weight distributed. Andy Thomson went to their London, Ontario, BMW dealer to look at the X5 (it was new on the market in 2000) and called me in Houston saying it was "built like a 1 ton truck" and would have no problem handling my 8,300 GVWR Airstream which has a 720 lb. tongue weight. Over 35,000 trouble free miles later this has been proven to be correct. Your AS is MUCH smaller than mine so it shouldn't be any problem at all for an X5.
Hi Withidl,

I too have looked at the X5 xDrive 50i as a possible tow vehicle but the one thing we couldn't get passed was the fact that the owner's manual clearly states that the max tow capacity on this vehicle is 6000 lbs. Yes, we did contact Andy Thomson at CanAm and yes, he did assure us that it could handle the weight of a 27FB (GVWR 7600 lbs, hitch weight 770 lbs).

But we can't help but wonder:
If we were in an accident, who would be found liable and negligible for exceeding the maximum allowable towing capacity of the vehicle? Not only that but another concern of ours is what if during a hill descent our trailer brakes gave out, can this vehicle stop our 7600lb trailer?

What are your thoughts?
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sierrafun View Post
Hi Withidl,

I too have looked at the X5 xDrive 50i as a possible tow vehicle but the one thing we couldn't get passed was the fact that the owner's manual clearly states that the max tow capacity on this vehicle is 6000 lbs. Yes, we did contact Andy Thomson at CanAm and yes, he did assure us that it could handle the weight of a 27FB (GVWR 7600 lbs, hitch weight 770 lbs).

But we can't help but wonder:
If we were in an accident, who would be found liable and negligible for exceeding the maximum allowable towing capacity of the vehicle? Not only that but another concern of ours is what if during a hill descent our trailer brakes gave out, can this vehicle stop our 7600lb trailer?

What are your thoughts?
sierrafun, Andy Thomson addressed your liability and braking concerns in his following 09-05-2010, 05:36 AM post in "Tow Vehicle Consultant" as follows:

I don't want to add to the flames here and I certainly don't have time for an endless discussion but I would like to point out something that happens on this forum.

When Withidi visited our store for two weeks I might have taught him a few things about towing but I learned a huge amount from him. He knows more about Polymers lubrication coolants and how it relates to vehicles break in etc. than anyone I have met. He was able to explain some very complex properties in ways that I could understand. He knows more about vehicles than 99% of the people that contribute here. I have used his information extensively over the years. He could be a great asset to this forum.

However since some people don't like his tow vehicle they are ready to discount everything he has to say and he likely won't return after all who needs it.

Here is a person that has been towing extensively with the same vehicle for 10 years and gives his experience and some are ready to jump all over him. It always amazes me how some people feel they are experts about a combination that they have never driven let alone pushed anywhere near its limits.

I don't know what you think would be a viable test of handling, hurricane cross winds? a tight road coarse? or the slaloms and lane changes that we test with. You choose the test take any stock 3/4 ton truck and Airstream you care to use and I will take the X5 and the same Airstream I will make that 3/4 ton and Airstream look as slow as molasses. Then I will put you behind the wheel of the BMW and you will see that driving it at the speed that was the limit of the 3/4 ton is easy as a Sunday drive in the BMW.

From a stopping distance perspective it is just no contest the BMW / Airstream stops at least 30' shorter from 65 mph. During all the solo miles that the vehicle is not towing the differences in avoidance and stopping distance are exponentailly greater there is just no contest which is the safest vehicle solo and that is far more miles than the towing miles.

In regards to liability, if you get in an accident and it is your fault you are liable. If it is not your fault then you are not. With the X5 your are far less likely to get in an accident that is your fault and far less likely to get into an accident that is someone elses fault. I can think of no situation at highway speed where I had to max out the vehicles capability where I would rather have a 3/4 ton than an X5.

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Old 09-18-2012, 06:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
sierrafun, Andy Thomson addressed your liability and braking concerns in his following 09-05-2010, 05:36 AM post in "Tow Vehicle Consultant" as follows:


Here is a person that has been towing extensively with the same vehicle for 10 years and gives his experience and some are ready to jump all over him. It always amazes me how some people feel they are experts about a combination that they have never driven let alone pushed anywhere near its limits. Andrew T
Hear ye, hear ye... European car manufacturers do not support WD hitches because they are not used in Europe. It's a whole different hitch and trailer weight system over there. Have owned two Touaregs and towed two trailers and the hitches never fell off.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #28
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Hi Withidl,

I too have looked at the X5 xDrive 50i as a possible tow vehicle but the one thing we couldn't get passed was the fact that the owner's manual clearly states that the max tow capacity on this vehicle is 6000 lbs. Yes, we did contact Andy Thomson at CanAm and yes, he did assure us that it could handle the weight of a 27FB (GVWR 7600 lbs, hitch weight 770 lbs).

But we can't help but wonder:
If we were in an accident, who would be found liable and negligible for exceeding the maximum allowable towing capacity of the vehicle? Not only that but another concern of ours is what if during a hill descent our trailer brakes gave out, can this vehicle stop our 7600lb trailer?

What are your thoughts?
You expressed concerns similar to mine. Based on reporting by knowledgeable members on the forum the X5 is a very capable tow vehicle. I have similar liability and warranty concerns as you do. I find it difficult to purchase such an expensive TV and use it in ways that the manufacturer expressly forbids. Two BMW dealers checked the WD hitch issue and both told me that BMW does not support the use of a WD hitch, plus I posted the explicit written instructions that BMW includes with a hitch receiver installation that clearly forbids the use of a WD hitch.

Its a shame that position BMW takes on using weight distributing hitches as the X5 is the best SUV I have ever driven.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:04 AM   #29
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Mhhh, do you have a picture of the receiver from underneath on the X5 model you're considering? In the diagram posted further above, it looks like the receiver is attached to the bumper using a vertical bracket. If that's the case, I doubt it would hold up to the WD torque you'd be putting on it. But that doesn't mean you can't mount a different receiver system instead...
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:29 AM   #30
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Mhhh, do you have a picture of the receiver from underneath on the X5 model you're considering? In the diagram posted further above, it looks like the receiver is attached to the bumper using a vertical bracket. If that's the case, I doubt it would hold up to the WD torque you'd be putting on it. But that doesn't mean you can't mount a different receiver system instead...
The parts department manager at my local BMW dealer who gave me the hitch receiver instructions told me several times that the hitch is mounted on the bumper.

Unfortunately I do not have a photo of the actual hitch receiver mounted on a BMW.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:30 AM   #31
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As a longtime BMW enthusiast, 28-year member of the BMW Car Club, and owner of a 1st generation X5 with factory tow hitch, I offer the following:

The factory tow hitch on the X5 attaches to the body of the truck, essentially replacing the stock bumper. It is a 6-hour job to install one after the fact since you have to remove the stock bumper in order to install the hitch if it was not done at the factory

I used my 2002 X5 4.6is (with no WD)to tow an enclosed trailer with a car inside it (combined weight approximate 5800 lbs--never measured the tongue weight ) throughout AZ, NM, and CO with no issues at all. My X5 has now provided over 200k miles of troublefree transportation.

I would not hesitate at all to rely on another BMW product for towing up to the mfgr recommended limits. The original X5 was over-engineered with plenty of margin built in, and I would expect the newer models also have plenty of margin as well.

YMMV
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:29 AM   #32
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I would not hesitate at all to rely on another BMW product for towing up to the mfgr recommended limits. The original X5 was over-engineered with plenty of margin built in, and I would expect the newer models also have plenty of margin as well.

YMMV
All reports I have read indicate that the BMW X5 is a very capable tow vehicle. My issue concerns the manufacturer's recommendations.

In my case I would be exceeding the manufacturer's recommended limit with respect to tongue weight. My actual tongue weight, depending on freshwater, gray and black water ranges from 780 to 880 lb. I can't imagine towing without a WD hitch.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:06 AM   #33
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All reports I have read indicate that the BMW X5 is a very capable tow vehicle. My issue concerns the manufacturer's recommendations.

In my case I would be exceeding the manufacturer's recommended limit with respect to tongue weight. My actual tongue weight, depending on freshwater, gray and black water ranges from 780 to 880 lb. I can't imagine towing without a WD hitch.
I personally installed my 2001 X5’s OEM hitch (was $500 to purchase and included a “module” which interfaces with the X5’s electronics and the 7 pin connector). As just stated above, it is involved in that it requires dropping the exhaust, removal of the OEM bumper and it’s shock struts; which are replaced by a VERY substantial bumper and hitch with receiver, which is NOT attached to the new bumper, but attaches to struts which insert into the body where the OEM bumper shock absorbers were removed, so the bumper does NOT carry any of the receiver load.

If you read Andy Thomson’s “Tow Vehicle Assessment” in detail it advises that the manufacturer’s recommendations are more for marketing than actual towing and don’t generally correlate to a vehicles actual towing capability.

As I have previously stated, my assembly is a ASCL 31 foot with Hensley with a GVWR of 8,300 pounds, a tongue weight of 720 pounds which I have loaded to ~8,900+ and tongue weight of 1,000+. I have towed it for over 35,000 miles (over the continental divide 3 times) at speeds up to 85 mph without ever experiencing any problems. I have recent photos in one of my posts of the receiver/bumper which shows that in those 35,000 miles the receiver/bumper clearance has not changed, i.e. no bending since installation.


I mean no disrespect, but I perceive that you put so much weight on the manufacturer’s recommendation that it inhibits your ability to accept the fact that the X5 can handle ANY size travel trailer, assuming the assembly is set up correctly. The manufacturer’s recommendations in reality are not the “be all, end all”.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:42 AM   #34
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I personally installed my 2001 X5’s OEM hitch (was $500 to purchase and included a “module” which interfaces with the X5’s electronics and the 7 pin connector). As just stated above, it is involved in that it requires dropping the exhaust, removal of the OEM bumper and it’s shock struts; which are replaced by a VERY substantial bumper and hitch with receiver, which is NOT attached to the new bumper, but attaches to struts which insert into the body where the OEM bumper shock absorbers were removed, so the bumper does NOT carry any of the receiver load.

If you read Andy Thomson’s “Tow Vehicle Assessment” in detail it advises that the manufacturer’s recommendations are more for marketing than actual towing and don’t generally correlate to a vehicles actual towing capability.

As I have previously stated, my assembly is a ASCL 31 foot with Hensley with a GVWR of 8,300 pounds, a tongue weight of 720 pounds which I have loaded to ~8,900+ and tongue weight of 1,000+. I have towed it for over 35,000 miles (over the continental divide 3 times) at speeds up to 85 mph without ever experiencing any problems. I have recent photos in one of my posts of the receiver/bumper which shows that in those 35,000 miles the receiver/bumper clearance has not changed, i.e. no bending since installation.


I mean no disrespect, but I perceive that you put so much weight on the manufacturer’s recommendation that it inhibits your ability to accept the fact that the X5 can handle ANY size travel trailer, assuming the assembly is set up correctly. The manufacturer’s recommendations in reality are not the “be all, end all”.
I already stated several times that the BMW X5 appears to be a capable tow vehicle. I have also stated it is the best SUV I have ever driven.

I also mean no disrespect but BMW knows the engineering aspects of their automobiles better than us amateurs, regardless of the experience we have. If BMW's towing ratings are done for marketing purposes then I submit they would be at the maximum possible amount. There is no advantage for the marketing department of BMW to underestimate the towing ability of their X5.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:43 AM   #35
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I also mean no disrespect but BMW knows the engineering aspects of their automobiles better than us amateurs, regardless of the experience we have. If BMW's towing ratings are done for marketing purposes then I submit they would be at the maximum possible amount. There is no advantage for the marketing department of BMW to underestimate the towing ability of their X5.
With all due respect, the good info has been reported to you about why things are the way they are but you are just not getting it.
There are many others in your boat and that is fine. Get your X5 and a 2,000lb pop up and don't use a WDH. It won't tow as nice or be as safe as your neighbor who has an X5/Airstream but so be it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:35 AM   #36
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With all due respect, the good info has been reported to you about why things are the way they are but you are just not getting it.
There are many others in your boat and that is fine. Get your X5 and a 2,000lb pop up and don't use a WDH. It won't tow as nice or be as safe as your neighbor who has an X5/Airstream but so be it.
Hi, sorry, but I don't get it either; Many people have jumped off of bridges and lived, I'm not one of them to try it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #37
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I mean no disrespect, but I perceive that you put so much weight on the manufacturer’s recommendation that it inhibits your ability to accept the fact that the X5 can handle ANY size travel trailer, assuming the assembly is set up correctly. The manufacturer’s recommendations in reality are not the “be all, end all”.
Withidl,

There was an interesting development with the Toyota Sequoia between 2008-2012. Back in 2008, Toyota touted that the Sequoia could tow up to 10,000 lbs. In fact, currently there is still a video stating this on their web site:Sequoia Demos and Videos
Click on the "Test Drive" video to hear Tommy Kendall - 4 Time Trans Am Racing Champion tell us that the max towing capacity is 10,000 lbs.

The "interesting" part is that the max towing capacity on the Sequoia has now dropped from 10,000 lbs to 7100 lbs. Still the same engine, wheelbase and rear axel ratio.

Questions to consider:
~What caused Toyota to drastically decrease the tow rating from 10,000lbs to 7100 lbs on the only capable towing SUV in their lineup?

~Why would Toyota reduce the tow rating since the Sequoia is specifically marketed to the towing crowd?

~Wouldn't it benefit Toyota sales to keep the tow rating as high as possible?

My point is this, perhaps there is a reason the BMW x5's tow rating is 6000lbs.

Just my two cents...
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:57 PM   #38
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For those interested:
~What caused Toyota to drastically decrease the tow rating from 10,000lbs to 7100lbs on the only capable towing SUV in their lineup?
Toyota eliminated the tow kit from the Sequoia beginning in 2010. This tow kit included an oil cooler, transmission cooler and a heavy duty battery. The reason for eliminating it is because a lot of Toyota customers who were purchasing Sequoia’s weren’t towing up to that 10,000 lbs so they didn’t require that additional kit to be built into the vehicle. It was a cost issue because the vehicle is already expensive. So Toyota eliminated that tow kit to reduce the cost since most customers did not need that towing capacity. In addition, unfortunately they currently don’t offer that kit as an upgrade for those that would like the kit.

People can add after market parts and it does not eliminate the warranty. However, if these after market parts or installation cause a problem and it is discovered that the problem is not a defect in manufacturing but in the after market parts, then it wouldn’t be covered by warranty.

So again, there could be a very specific reason as to why the BMW x5 is only rated to 6000 lbs. towing capacity.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #39
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Withidl,

There was an interesting development with the Toyota Sequoia between 2008-2012. Back in 2008, Toyota touted that the Sequoia could tow up to 10,000 lbs. In fact, currently there is still a video stating this on their web site:Sequoia Demos and Videos
Click on the "Test Drive" video to hear Tommy Kendall - 4 Time Trans Am Racing Champion tell us that the max towing capacity is 10,000 lbs.

The "interesting" part is that the max towing capacity on the Sequoia has now dropped from 10,000 lbs to 7100 lbs. Still the same engine, wheelbase and rear axel ratio.

Questions to consider:
~What caused Toyota to drastically decrease the tow rating from 10,000lbs to 7100 lbs on the only capable towing SUV in their lineup?

~Why would Toyota reduce the tow rating since the Sequoia is specifically marketed to the towing crowd?

~Wouldn't it benefit Toyota sales to keep the tow rating as high as possible?

My point is this, perhaps there is a reason the BMW x5's tow rating is 6000lbs.

Just my two cents...
From a marketing perspective BMW’s X5 is marketed as an SAV (Sport ACTIVITY Vehicle), NOT an SUV (Sport UTILITY Vehicle), therefore they would not want to emphasize the “work truck utility” capability of the X5 as it would distract from the FUN aspect. Again, Andy Thomson’s “Tow Vehicle Assessment” article directly addresses this matter.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #40
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Another thing that happed with Toyota is that they are embracing the new SAE towing test and results. A lot of other companies are dragging their feet and sticking with the old claims.
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