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11-13-2017, 03:52 AM
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#121
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
The Euro stuff is interesting -- the study worth a read -- but trailer and TV differences (extra low TW and no WD, among others) make it more of a curiosity than an aid. Bundorf, 1965 (SAE) is better.
"Best" hitch is by design. Same as with a TV. Same as with the TT.
And any reader can safely ignore those who find a few dollars as relevant in the choice of a hitch.
How much were the vehicles? They were each one-third of achieving a good highway rig. The hitch and it's installation are the other third.
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Here is a another study on sway instability.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e8...336eef1e34.pdf
It’s good to know the basic science behind trailer instability and you don’t have to be an engineer to understand it. Sway is just one of three different modes of lateral instability but is the most common. Rollover and jackknife are the other two.
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11-13-2017, 09:28 AM
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#122
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
KW
, Ontario
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
It didn’t fail at the bosses though, it failed at the top of the U. Metal fatigue in the brake bends.
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I just had the U shape bracket break on mine. It broke clean off in the bottom of the bends. Both sides. Luckily I was just moving the trailer within the camp site when it broke. Fortunately I had spare brackets with me. I try to carry an assortment of pins and clevises with me. I talked to Hensley, but their answer was that the hitch is 18 years old so things aren't going to last for ever.
My first Hensley was a lot newer, but it broke catastrophically a few years back that there was no saving it. I just salvaged what I could and chucked the rest. My current one I also picked up used and has a reinforcement bar welded across the back so it hopefully won't break apart like the first one did.
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11-13-2017, 09:39 AM
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#123
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot
I just had the U shape bracket break on mine. It broke clean off in the bottom of the bends. Both sides. Luckily I was just moving the trailer within the camp site when it broke. Fortunately I had spare brackets with me. I try to carry an assortment of pins and clevises with me. I talked to Hensley, but their answer was that the hitch is 18 years old so things aren't going to last for ever.
My first Hensley was a lot newer, but it broke catastrophically a few years back that there was no saving it. I just salvaged what I could and chucked the rest. My current one I also picked up used and has a reinforcement bar welded across the back so it hopefully won't break apart like the first one did.
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I have read about some Hensleys breaking where the WD bars enter the hitch head. That sounds like that is what happened to yours....
My U bracket broke at the bend also, but it is a fairly early serial number hitch, it was probably pretty old.
I repaired it with chains at a Tractor Supply in Texas a couple of years ago, the chains are still in place. They probably wont ever break.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-13-2017, 10:48 AM
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#124
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,118
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I have a 2500 4 wheel drive. About how much will the "stinger" weigh and would I have to lift it each time I unhitch to put it in and out of the TV receiver?
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11-13-2017, 10:51 AM
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#125
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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25 lbs maybe?
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11-13-2017, 11:04 AM
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#126
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59
25 lbs maybe?
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That sounds about right for a Hensley stinger, maybe 35 pounds, I think the ProPride is a little more.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-14-2017, 08:41 AM
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#127
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd
Here is a another study on sway instability.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4e8...336eef1e34.pdf
It’s good to know the basic science behind trailer instability and you don’t have to be an engineer to understand it. Sway is just one of three different modes of lateral instability but is the most common. Rollover and jackknife are the other two.
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Hi
The most interesting part of that paper is the data on "uniform braking". It's a pretty good pile of data on what not to do in the case of sway and why.
Bob
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11-14-2017, 08:53 AM
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#128
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
That sounds about right for a Hensley stinger, maybe 35 pounds, I think the ProPride is a little more.
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ProPride is a fair bit heavier, maybe 40-45 pounds. It can be a bit of a struggle for this older dude. Some have built a box on wheels with slots to carry the stinger at the right height in the garage to easily slip it in the receiver, and make storing it a bit easier.
I usually just put on a pair of gloves, and go for it. It does not come off enroute, and I'm considering a small hoist from Harbor Freight that mounts in the truck bed and can more easily lift the beast.
Rock-solid stability tends to indicate large chunks of metal, I guess...It's a trade-off, like most things. At least the head and WD bars do not have to come on and off every time I hitch and unhitch. That would be painful.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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11-14-2017, 09:02 AM
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#129
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,118
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"It does not come off enroute"
Could you clarify that statement? Does something stay in the receiver when unhitched or does it all come out? What is the thing that is always hanging out of the trailer with a cone in front of it or on it when a Hensley is unhitched.
My Reese WD bars weigh maybe 5 lbs each and I handle them easily with one hand when hitching. I put a cover over the ball and leave the head in the receiver unless I am going to be somewhere for a long while.
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11-14-2017, 09:18 AM
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#130
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M.
"It does not come off enroute"
Could you clarify that statement? Does something stay in the receiver when unhitched or does it all come out? What is the thing that is always hanging out of the trailer with a cone in front of it or on it when a Hensley is unhitched.
My Reese WD bars weigh maybe 5 lbs each and I handle them easily with one hand when hitching. I put a cover over the ball and leave the head in the receiver unless I am going to be somewhere for a long while.
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The stinger can stay in when unhitched, or it can be taken out,,, same as a ball hitch.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-14-2017, 11:14 AM
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#131
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Best Anti-Sway Tow Hitch
Unless you are clumsy like me and nail my shins on the stinger or ball walking around the back of the truck. I carry a few orange cones if I leave the stinger in and put one over the stinger for visibility and padding. Usually don’t bother unhitching until I get to final destination.
Nice part with Hensley designs is that the WD bars do not have to be removed when unhitching.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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11-14-2017, 01:25 PM
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#132
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum
Unless you are clumsy like me and nail my shins on the stinger or ball walking around the back of the truck. I carry a few orange cones if I leave the stinger in and put one over the stinger for visibility and padding. Usually don’t bother unhitching until I get to final destination.
Nice part with Hensley designs is that the WD bars do not have to be removed when unhitching.
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Me too. Thats why I always pull my stinger out. Because that really hurts... the cone thing is a great idea.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-14-2017, 06:12 PM
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#133
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Shin Saver.....
...........after the second shin whack on the first trip, I started putting this on as SOON as we un-hitched.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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11-14-2017, 09:42 PM
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#134
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
The most interesting part of that paper is the data on "uniform braking". It's a pretty good pile of data on what not to do in the case of sway and why.
Bob
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It's there to make the case for integrated roll and/or stability control. But it doesn't say squat (as is usual) about trailer design, hitches, etc.
So long as it's outside the OEM envelope of responsibility, no one else covers it.
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11-14-2017, 09:51 PM
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#135
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
It's there to make the case for integrated roll and/or stability control. But it doesn't say squat (as is usual) about trailer design, hitches, etc.
So long as it's outside the OEM envelope of responsibility, no one else covers it.
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Its possible to overthink things. For me, if towing is comfortable that is my benchmark.
To be comfortable I need to feel in control of my vehicle and that shouldn’t be a chore.
Again to be comfortable I want to know that my 1/2 ton pickup truck is going to respond in a proficient manner anytime I ask it to. (It will)
Thats about it.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-15-2017, 03:28 AM
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#136
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
It's there to make the case for integrated roll and/or stability control. But it doesn't say squat (as is usual) about trailer design, hitches, etc.
So long as it's outside the OEM envelope of responsibility, no one else covers it.
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On the first page in the summary they tell how importantance of TV/TRL weight ratio. No matter how perfect you load a trailer this weight ratio remains in the equations and is key to keeping critical speed above the normal operating highway speeds.
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11-15-2017, 12:37 PM
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#137
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd
On the first page in the summary they tell how importantance of TV/TRL weight ratio. No matter how perfect you load a trailer this weight ratio remains in the equations and is key to keeping critical speed above the normal operating highway speeds.
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But it's not the only effect. It's the easiest one to test.
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11-16-2017, 07:29 AM
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#138
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
But it's not the only effect. It's the easiest one to test.
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Hi
They go through a lot of talk, and present some high level math. They never show how the high level stuff connects to the talk stuff. Essentially there are about 50 pages of math left out (or 50 pages of talk). You have no hard information about what's what.
About the only thing that *did* make it through this process is the simulation and field data on uniform braking. Other than that .... not much left after the scrub.
Bob
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11-16-2017, 08:17 AM
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#139
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
They go through a lot of talk, and present some high level math. They never show how the high level stuff connects to the talk stuff. Essentially there are about 50 pages of math left out (or 50 pages of talk). You have no hard information about what's what.
About the only thing that *did* make it through this process is the simulation and field data on uniform braking. Other than that .... not much left after the scrub.
Bob
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And still, the bottom line is how a combination drives, handles, and stops....
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-16-2017, 01:19 PM
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#140
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 378
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Here’s the equation for calculating damping ratio. At the end there you see “Tow vehicle sensitivity” which is trailer mass divided by tow vehicle mass multiplied by a constant of 3.7. The study is very clear on how damping ratio values are related to speed. There are indeed other factors to consider depending on which mode of instability your referring to, but for dynamic instability (sway) the biggest factors are speed, trailer CG and TV to TRL mass ratio. If you have a TV with serious lateral stability issues then that’s a separate problem to address.
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