Am I asking for trouble?? Advice needed!

[aaaron]

I'm getting ready to buy my first Airstream and am very excited. I have settled on buying a new 19' International CCD. It is a good size for now and should tow easily behind my '07 BMW X5. I plan on using my trailer for short weekend trips in local campgrounds. Right now, it's just me and my 4 year old son, but I will be getting married early next year and eventually adding 2 or 3 more kids to the family. Long term I would love to have the 23' or 25' CCD, but I don't want to buy a dedicated TV.

After reading about this guy, I'm debating getting the 23' instead of the 19'. My X5 is rated for 6,000# and my dealer says I should have no problem towing the larger trailer (of course he would say that).

I really value your opinions and would love to hear your advice. Am I asking for trouble by going with the 23'? Should I play it safe and stick with the 19'?

Thanks in advance!!

[Condoluminum]

There are so many different experiences and situations, it really is hard to tell.. Many of us don't really think of the X5 as a real heavy duty tow vehicle, and with a short wheelbase it might get over-matched by a fully loaded 23... I'd opt for the 19, and to gain some experience, trying different trips, talking to other Airstream owners, etc, and then decide " in a few years" if you want to do something different.. You may decide to try vintage, or go even larger, or your family may not really enjoy it... You'll also have experience with the BMW on how it pulls, stops and handles cross winds and sway...

[SteveH]

Aaaron,

I'm sure the BMW X5 is a fine vehicle, but the fact is, you really don't see that many of them. Additionally, you see even less of them towing trailers. That's not to say they won't do it, its just that you probably won't get very much response from X5 owners that tow Airstreams.

I'm currently towing a vintage 23' Airstream with a standard cab, short wheelbase, Dodge pickup...I know, not even in the same league, but it is simular size, and probably with simular horsepower (235 V8). Anyway, to the point, the Dodge is marginal in my opinion to tow the 23 footer, but I think it would be fine for a 19 footer.

Yes, I am currently studying the market trying to decide what I want to buy to replace the Dodge.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Steve

[Wayward]

Aaaron, you'll find a HUGE range of opinions on this site about tow vehicles. I've been trying to sort through and understand some of it on this and other TV/RV sites recently. I've read posts ranging from folks who feel safe towing a 25' Safari with a Toureg, to another who ended up with an F350 before feeling comfotable towing a Bambi. My conclusion so far is to learn what all the manufacturer specs mean and use the numbers to first see if things are in the ballpark.

- Starting with trailer's UBW (dry, empty weight), add the weight of the stuff you will put in it and, any fresh, black and gray fluid weight. (Fluid weight varies based on how you camp - e.g. I always travel with empty tanks, others boondock and carry fluids to and from the campsite). Be sure to include 100 lbs or so for a weight distributing/sway hitch set up.

- If this total trailer weight is below your tow vehicle's specifed towing capacity, go ahead and estimate the weight of the stuff you will put in the TV plus, 2/3 of the trailer's tongue weight. Make sure this total vehicle weight does not exceed its specified GVWR.

- If everything still looks OK, see if you can find a combined vehicle weight rating for the TV (may be called GCVWR or GCWR). Make sure your estimated total trailer weight and total vehicle weight is under the specified combined weight rating.

- If things still look good you are in the ballpark and can do more detailed calculations to decide. Check the capacity of hitches availble for your TV. Search around this site and internet for experiences from folks using vehicles like yours to tow trailers. For vehicles like the X5, Toureg, M-Class that may not have a full length box frame, there is usually debate about using a weight distributing hitch, which moves some of the tongue weight to the TV front wheels.

No matter what you decide, a good weight distribution and sway bar set up will be key to stable towing.

Good luck! An X5 and an Airstream seems like a very cool rig

[flitzwhopper]

get the trailer that is going to meet your needs in the five year time frame. You're X5 will be fine. The Germans are very conservative with their capacities. If you were contemplating massive mountain towing and 3 to 4 thousand miles a trip, I'd tell you to get a real TV. Three hours out.. three hours back - no problem. If you're careful and don't challenge the capabilities of the BMW, you could get the 25FB now and not have to do that in five years ;-) A weight distribution hitch and some intillegent towing practices and you'll be fine.
i have a 76 Argosy and your BMW X5 would be very happy with 4k pounds and dual axels... sleeps four and has all of the conveniences. The best part - buy a good one for $5-8k and no depreciation.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by aaaron

I plan on using my trailer for short weekend trips in local campgrounds....but I will be getting married early next year...I really value your opinions and would love to hear your advice. Am I asking for trouble by going with the 23'?

Easiest question I've seen on this forum.

Yes, you're getting in deep trouble by going with the 23'er - if you actually want to get to go camping with your family in the years ahead, you need to bring your prospective wife to a dealer, let her sit with you in a bunch of different sized Airstreams, and pick the one she likes!

She might decide she likes the 16' CCD - cute, compact and easy to clean - or that she can't imagine staying in anything smaller than the 34' triple axle. But going with any Airstream without input from your intended is definately asking for trouble.

enjoy,
leo

P.S. Keep in mind that your BMW's 6000lb rating is for a single driver and no cargo. Since the 23' Airstream's GVWR is 6000lbs you would not enjoy towing it. Not that you couldn't (particularly at sea level with no hills) - but it would not be fun.

P.P.S. My advice for anyone asking your basic question is the same - decide what you want to do, pick the airstream size/floorplan that will allow you do it, pick the age of the trailer you can afford, pick a tow vehicle that will allow you to drive comfortably and safely, then pick the age of the tow vehicle you can afford.

[moosetags]

First of all, welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

Please don't run away after after the responses to your very first post. Your questions are like rolling a hand grenade into the room. There are some very strong feelings around here when the topic of sufficiency of tow vehicles comes up.

As to whether your BMW X5 will handle a 19' Bambi, my opinion is kinda sorta. It would probably not be within my comfort zone, but each person must decide for him or her self what they can deal with. If you decide to go with the 19', try it with the X5 and see how it feel.

If you decide on the 23', the X5 will probably be overmatched. This combination will probably cause you substantial towing unhappines.

[Wayward]

aaron this is a good example of taking the time to understand what the specs mean as you make your decsion:

An Airstream's GVWR is the combined weight of the base model trailer plus all the stuff you choose to put in it, which, Airstream recommends you not exceed.

UBW is the actual weight of the trailer without any options, gear or fluids.

A 23' Safari SE has a 6000 lb GVWR but its UBW is 4460 lbs. A big difference.

[aaaron]

I am overwhelmed! Thanks for all the quick responses. I have heard that the AS community was large and friendly, now I have experienced it first hand!

Leo, please rest easy knowing that the future wife has been with me to check them out and loves the 19' CCD. We both agreed that it would be nice to get the 23' now, so that our family can grow into the trailer.

That said, I'm still not convinced that the X5 is the right match for the heavier load. I've read on some BMW forums where the general consensus is that the X5 is a great TV for what it is, and that it has been underrated by BMW. I certainly don't consider it a heavy duty hauler, but I am confident that it will easily handle the 19' trailer for short weekend trips. If I can gain the same confidence that it will handle the 23'er, I may go for it.

Wayward, thanks for taking the time to explain so much to me. I am still learning, and what you have described answers many of my questions. Can you also explain what 'CSA' means? I have seen this on the Airstream specifications sheet.

Again, thanks for all the advice!

[Wayward]

CSA is proabably referring to Canada Standards Assoc if you saw it in the towing/weight specs.

[Wayne&Sam]

For what it's worth, we tow our 20' Safari with a Mercedes ML500 without and problem or concern. My wife Sam will be home tomorrow after a month in Montana with it.

[Muddy Waters]

Our family is also looking at the Bambi 19' and are looking for an appropriate TV. We're interested in the Toyota Four Runner V-6, but the more I read online, the more I think we may need a V-8. That means crummy gas mileage for in-town driving.

Any opinions?

[urbanfood]

Originally Posted by aaaron

After reading about this guy, I'm debating getting the 23' instead of the 19'. My X5 is rated for 6,000# and my dealer says I should have no problem towing the larger trailer (of course he would say that).

i wouldn't tow anything bigger than 19' would the X5. i'd recommend searching the towing forum here rather then what some knucklehead may be doing on the bmw forum to learn about proper tow setups. also, i'd be worried about getting towing advice from a bmw dealer.

bottom line, spend a few hours here, use the search button and you'll learn a great deal about towing and tow vehicles.

check out this thread link for a mismatched TV, http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ost-36080.html

[Wayward]

Muddy, there is a good chance that you wouldn't see too much difference in gas mileage difference in real world everyday driving between the v6 and v8. and....you might actually see a bit better mileage when towing with the v8.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by urbanfood

check out this thread link for a mismatched TV, http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ost-36080.html

Upon reading all the posts on that accident, it is pretty clear that was a disaster waiting to happen. He was running with only one sway bar!! A bigger tow vehicle would not have helped much.

Bigger tow vehicles can give a larger margin of comfort but will not compensate much for a poorly setup rig. Smaller tow vehicles can be set up to tow safely within the manufactures' weight specs.

[hshovic]

Doing it by the numbers: See this thread...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ers-36389.html

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by aaaron

I certainly don't consider it a heavy duty hauler, but I am confident that it will easily handle the 19' trailer for short weekend trips. If I can gain the same confidence that it will handle the 23'er, I may go for it...Can you also explain what 'CSA' means?

CSA on the spec sheet means the Canadian spec trailer - in particular the Canadian 23'ers have a 6300lb GVWR because the 6000lb axles aren't certified in Canada.

If you are looking at trailers on a dealer's lot, open up the closet door and you should see a weight sheet - it will show you how options have eaten up the difference between the UBW and the GVWR. Depending on the 23' trailer you are looking at you may find that it is close to 6000lbs without cargo.

I share your confidence that the 19' will be no problem (assuming you have a reasonable w/d anti-sway hitch). If you intend to stay down in Southern California (e.g. Joshua Tree, Salton Sea) you'll *probably* be OK with the 23' - but you don't want to go up into the Sierras.

[Road Ruler]

Good day aaron.. I posted this a while ago but will post it again. It is an interesting blurb on the towing prowess of the high performance X5.



The highlights below are from an article in "Automobile Magazine". It praises the towing prowess of the BMW X5, perhaps the "Ultimate driving "towing",?? machine.

"Online editor Greg Anderson called the X5 a "tall 5-series wagon with worse gas mileage." Founder and editor emeritus David E. Davis, Jr., felt it was more of an "all-wheel-drive mini-minivan" than an SUV. Executive editor Mark Gillies abandoned automotive terminology altogether, branding the X5 "an odd fish but a really good one." Most staffers agreed that whatever the X5 is, it's a good one.

The chassis and suspension inspired much praise. After a 1200-mile weekend, contributor Ronald Ahrens wrote: "There's no shake, the car remains composed over railroad tracks, and road-surface irregularities are nothing but trifles. Ride quality is simply astounding." Senior editor Eddie Alterman lauded its superb damping and over-the-road comportment. Managing editor Amy Skogstrom praised the taut suspension, preferring it to the "lumbering ride" of traditional SUVs.

The powertrain and chassis made for stellar towing. After pulling a U-Haul trailer laden with his dismantled Lotus racing car back from Indianapolis, Gillies wrote: "This is a far better tow vehicle than the GMC Yukon XL Denali I used to take the Lotus to Indy (with the same kind of trailer). For one, you don't get blown around. Just because a vehicle can haul a house doesn't mean it can tow well. The BMW may not have a huge towing capacity, but it tows superbly."

Anderson recanted his earlier dismissal of the X5 as merely a tall wagon after using it to collect an impulse eBay Motors purchase from Sacramento, California
Even with the 1972 BMW 2002tii riding piggyback, the X5 handles the trailer with ease, no jolting or wagging. It feels more like a train than a truck. If it weren't for the 2002 in the rear-view, I could forget we were pulling anything."

[wagnerda]

Hi, just want to toss in my 2 cents about towing because 2 years ago when I was ordering my Airstream I was also trying to decide between the 19 ft or 23 ft.

I liked them both, and although the 19’ had everything I wanted, I really wanted the 23’ because it was a 2-axle. Theoretically, my tow vehicle – Ford Ranger – would tow either of them. I ended up going with the 19’ and am glad that I did.

One thing that helped me make up my mind was my dealer’s assurances about Airstreams being very good at holding their market value, so if in 5 years or so I decided to trade up (which I might) is that I would get a fairly decent % back on trading in for a larger unit… I am not sure if that is gospel, but it is a comforting thought anyway.

One thing that I have also noticed is that many people tend to lump all versions of a particular vehicle together when discussing towing capacity. I have seen lots of statements along the lines of “Chevy or Dodge model X can tow up to 8,000 lbs” etc etc. For instance, regarding the Ford Ranger, which I can speak to since I own one and have towed a 19” A/S for 15K+ miles with one, has a huge variance of towing capacities.

So what is a particular vehicles actual tow capacity ? The answer is “that depends”. I have attached a chart to show what I mean. With a particular vehicle, such as a Ranger, and I am sure the same applies to others, in addition to the model, you need to know which engine, which wheel base, which transmission, 4x4 or 4x2, and even which box length, in order to determine what is your actual tow capacity. In the attached you will see that a Ford Ranger with a V-6 can have any of more than 20 different tow ratings from 2,220 lbs up to 6,000 lbs depending on configuration. So my main suggestion would be to make sure you know what your particular vehicle parameters are for every combination so you can know your specific rating.

In my case, my truck is the V-6 4.0 liter 207 HP, Automatic, Supercab, 4x4, with 6-foot box so it comes out to a tow capacity rating of 5,560 lbs. I would rate it as “marginally acceptable” as a tow vehicle for a 19-ft. It is not so much a question of sheer horsepower to drag up a hill, it will do that just a little slower. The main issue is the tow vehicle is just a smaller mass compared to the trailer and it gets pushed around too much on the hwy.

By “pushed around” I mean the sudden “flexing-action” that happens when I am cruising along at 60~65 mph, and an 18-wheeler in the left lane coming at 75~80 mph overtakes me. There is a wall of air about 10 feet in front of the front bumper of the semi that as it gets up to about the hitch area of my trailer, it literally pushes the rear of the truck about an inch to the right, enough so that I have to make a correction on the steering wheel of about 1 inch clockwise with the wheel to keep everything rolling straight.

You get used to it, and now it is basically a subconscious move with the wheel, but it is annoying and tiring. Now, that being said, what I have is the Reese Equalizer and not a sway control hitch. My dealer said that you didn’t need a sway-control setup for only a 19 ft trailer, but I think they were not correct. I think because I only have a mid-size truck that sway-control is actually more important. So, since a new tow vehicle is a couple years away I am looking into either adding a sway-control system of some sort to my Reese Equalizer setup or getting a new hitch setup altogether. I am not sure yet which way to go, but I need to change something because my wife will not drive the truck with the setup as-is because she is uncomfortable with it. Some people have said that a two-axle trailer tows better, so I don’t know if that would avoid the flexing action I described above or not, but in any event, regardless of which length trailer you go with, check into the hitch setups and take a good look at sway-control hitches and I think you get what you pay for so be prepared to put some money into a decent hitch.

Regards, Dave.

[Wayward]

Dave, I agree with you that it is important to avoid general rules of thumb and just look at the manufactures' numbers and understand them.

I also strongly agree that a properly setup WD and sway control has got to be the biggest factor in towing stability, even over things like the wheelbase and tonnage of the TV.

Get the sway control - it will make a huge difference in the situations you describe. Our Airstream dealer added the Reese Dual Cam sway control ($175) and it is rock steady. A semi can pass us doing 80 and the rig does not flinch.

..........Scott