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Old 09-09-2016, 07:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
There is simply no way of knowing what caused that accident from the information here.
Speculation will lead to nothing!
I simply feel sorry for the woman. She lost her Airstream and her vehicle, hopefully nothing else! They can be replaced...
Bruce
Have you looked carefully at the 3 photos, including enlarging them on your screen? We can learn from what is available IMO, even if we are not able to pinpoint the exact cause of the accident, can't we?
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:14 AM   #22
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Thanks Rich for the photo. My links had to have the URL's posted, so they should be OK now.

Thanks for the Fiamma bike rack update.

I guess with your clearer picture, that is probably a tow truck with its rear lower lift bar extended under the trailer's rear bumper IMO. See the red "6" on the back corner of the tan vehicle? Maybe an ID number for the towing firm, like "Truck 6" ?

Thanks for posting the photo.

Peter

PS -- Also note that there is an awning on the street side shown above the tow truck operator (assuming) with the yellow-striped shirt/vest on. This would add weight to the small trailer, affecting the question of whether it may have been overweight, depending on the exact model. Those small units have fairly small carrying capacity, and the bike rack, 2 (?) bikes, and awning add up. If the rear bumper was an optional add-on (as needed for some small AS), its weight would also factor in.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Have you looked carefully at the 3 photos, including enlarging them on your screen? We can learn from what is available IMO, even if we are not able to pinpoint the exact cause of the accident, can't we?
I have looked.
So, you learn what hitch she used, what car she drove, that she had bicycles on the back...any number of things. None of that will tell us why it happened.
The accident might have literally been the result any number of things.
There is simply not enough information to make a meaningful, helpful assessment with any confidence that would lead me to change something about the way we tow.

It simply feels like the internet equivalence of "rubber necking"...

Remember, I looked too!
Bruce
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:43 AM   #24
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Could have been tv malfunction, tires look okay though.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:44 AM   #25
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Well said, Bruce, thanks.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:48 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
I have looked.
So, you learn what hitch she used, what car she drove, that she had bicycles on the back...any number of things. None of that will tell us why it happened.
The accident might have literally been the result any number of things.
There is simply not enough information to make a meaningful, helpful assessment with any confidence that would lead me to change something about the way we tow.

It simply feels like the internet equivalence of "rubber necking"...

Remember, I looked too!
Bruce

Exactly!!!

Your not learning anything thru speculation.

You will get better results by driving your own rig and doing the things that will make the experience safer & more enjoyable.

Bob
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:21 AM   #27
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Well....it is a sad event and very tramatic for anyone to go thru a motor vehicle accident and we should be thankful that no serious injury resulted. If....and I say if....there is anything good to see in these pics is the "integrity" of the trailer. The reports indicate the TV and trailer rolled "several times". Yet...it stayed connected which I find amazing. Another thing.....although trashed ...is that the trailer still retained it's "general shape". The roof held...the sides didn't buckel. Yes a lot of metal got torn up but the "trailer frame and superstructure" stayed in tack. Had it been some other brand we'd be looking at the "platform" not a "still complete" trailer unit. Even the AC stayed attached.

All of our trailers may come with their "respective flaws" but the "handbuilt quality of construction" can easily be seen.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:36 AM   #28
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Can't say much about this incident but can attest to the the build quality of Airstreams. I purchased and pulled home a 34' Limited that was in a rollover accident 150 miles across the state of Florida. It pulled like a dream even though I had to stop once and tighten up the straps as the shell was starting to lean a little too much. This particular accident was caused by a tire blow out on a personal watercraft trailer that was being towed behind the trailer. Lesson here, don't pull another trailer behind your airstream.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffcharb View Post
This particular accident was caused by a tire blow out on a personal watercraft trailer that was being towed behind the trailer. Lesson here, don't pull another trailer behind your airstream.
Forgive my ignorance, but is it legal to pull a trailer behind a bumper-towed trailer (not a 5th wheel)? And without a CDL?

Thanks,
Rich
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:10 AM   #30
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In some states,yes, in Florida I don't think so though I have seen it done.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:25 AM   #31
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Double Bottom Trailers/CDL

In Wisconsin one can pull a double bottom trailer setup without a CDL if the entire combination is not over 50-ft. in length. I was considering this setup and called the State Patrol to confirm. I found to meet the 50-ft. requirement you would need two very short trailers. Turned out not to work for me so I let the whole thing go.

Greg Anderson
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:03 AM   #32
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A single axle trailer, too.
I wonder if she knew to activate the trailer brakes with the hand control and apply slight fuel to straighten the tow vehicle and trailer once the trailer began swaying.
I wonder how fast she was going.
I wonder if she had her sway control tight enough.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:07 AM   #33
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Yikes! Those are scary photos. Flattened and upside down. She is very lucky to not have been killed.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
The accident might have literally been the result any number of things. There is simply not enough information to make a meaningful, helpful assessment with any confidence that would lead me to change something about the way we tow.
Agreed, Bruce. As OTRA15 previously stated, we really need the detailed follow-up report (if it's possible to obtain) ... And ... the more we can learn from accidents like this, the better off everyone will be.

If nothing else, this is hopefully getting folks' attention and reminding them (or teaching them ... Or reinforcing to them) the importance of loading, weight distribution, anti-sway, speed, driving time, etc. and all of the factors addressed in other safety-related threads... One of which is

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...is-155778.html

Though there are many others... Stay safe and let's hope we can get more info to continue the learning ...

Take care,
Rich
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:36 AM   #35
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I don't think anyone on this forum would ever think of you as callous, Ray. I pull my 20ft FC with a 2012 Tahoe, and fishtailed once very badly (could never figure out why...dry pavement, no winds, no sharp curves, reasonable speed). That's why I have, on a number of occasions, voiced my opinion on TV questions regarding vehicle sufficiency pulling larger AS. Although the horsepower is sufficient to pull larger ASs (so to speak), I would want a longer TV wheelbase for anything larger than my Daisy. Like everyone else said...glad the people are alright. Safe travels. jon
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:59 AM   #36
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To many what ifs. just hope lady and any psgrs. ok. Tv and trailers can be replaced LIVES can not.Until cause is known I won't speculate of causes. No fun to roll AS and feelings of sorrow as I completely rolled back onto wheels 1967 30 ft. AS in Feb. 1969, can attest to structure of AS. When I went back I couldn't see any damage except door ajar and hanging but inside completely trashed.
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:16 PM   #37
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Rich
Yes, in Idaho it is legal to pull two trailers...neither of them needing to be a 5th wheel
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:10 PM   #38
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Rich, as I wouldn't pull doubles myself curiosity made me look up the statute. In Florida you are allowed a combination up to 65 feet in length.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:14 PM   #39
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Using the trailer brakes might have helped, and we all have those. However, I'm not sure that once sway has surprised a driver that finding that brake-ctrl and applying it will be either easy or the first thing considered.... the first reaction will likely be directional-ctrl using the steering-wheel while simultaneously letting up on the gas.... neither particularly helpful.
I've several times, while underway, imagined the need to quickly apply trailer brakes and even tho' it's conveniently located..... it's not found/applied that quickly, IMO.


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Originally Posted by featherbedder View Post
To many what ifs. just hope lady and any psgrs. ok. Tv and trailers can be replaced LIVES can not.Until cause is known I won't speculate of causes. No fun to roll AS and feelings of sorrow as I completely rolled back onto wheels 1967 30 ft. AS in Feb. 1969, can attest to structure of AS. When
I went back I couldn't see any damage except door ajar and hanging but inside completely trashed.


What do you feel caused your rollover, featherbedder?
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #40
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Using the trailer brakes might have helped, and we all have those. However, I'm not sure that once sway has surprised a driver that finding that brake-ctrl and applying it will be either easy or the first thing considered.... the first reaction will likely be directional-ctrl using the steering-wheel while simultaneously letting up on the gas.... neither particularly helpful.
I've several times, while underway, imagined the need to quickly apply trailer brakes and even tho' it's conveniently located..... it's not found/applied that quickly, IMO.






What do you feel caused your rollover, featherbedder?
In 1967 AS raised ball hgt. to 21 inches. Had 1968 Chrysler New Yorker, to get ball hgt. reese butt welded stinger onto uprite bar that welded into back of head. [both solid 2 inch sq.] At that time heads were welded to stinger not as they are bolted today.
Reese did not triangle gusset at top where bars were joined or plate across bottom of butt weld. Scissored at 5000 lbs. pressure by Reese lab test. Coming apart. When I toured plant at Reese expense I suggested these two items they immed. started doing this mod. Reese admitted liability as this was new design. Reese covered all losses suffered by me. I still use Reese [I think they are a great hitch]. As far as car, spun out no damage or inj. to family. Also at that time only hitches were bumper pull or frame mounted that welding shops fabricated from some parts from hitch manf. and stock steel. Nothing from auto and truck manf. as today.
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