4Runner/25 FB Safari SE

[RVeeNooB]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

For example the 2014 4Runner with the 4.0-liter V-6 is rated at 270 horsepower at 5,600 rpm and 278 pounds-feet of torque at 4,400 rpm,

Are you exaggerating for effect ... or are you afraid of getting performance from you vehicle by revving the engine (as it was designed to do)?

I guess you are having trouble figuring out that acceleration on a downshift to say, pass someone, sucks when I call for it to "perform".
But anyway, have a nice day.

[Ssm_001]

Thank you to everyone who contributed with a response here, they were all great and I read them all, however RVeeNoob has made a concise, data driven argument against the 4runner. I simply can't have a vehicle that sounds like it's going to blow up when attempting a pass and instead will opt for the 26.5L Merlin powered Ford F22000 to show the AS who's boss.

Really though - thanks for the input. Andy/Canam seem to be a constant around here and in the Airstream world and I have read through every post he has made here and on the various blogs over the past few days, and at the end of the day his vast amounts of first-hand experience setting up and testing various TV/TT combinations and the incredible insights he has and shares in the community simply can't be ignored. Luckily I am local to his business. I am going to work with the team at Canam to get the 4runner dialled in and will let my experience drive my decisions from there.

Thanks!

[Airtream]

It sounds like a lot of Toyota fans are here today.

AlinCal has a great point. An often overlooked issue is braking. Just because it can pull it doesn't necessarily mean it can stop it.

We live full time in our 30 classic, a bit more than what you are looking at. I decided "white knuckle" is not the way to enjoy the trip, so we have a Dodge Cummins. It is my daily driver, despite the heavy traffic of our current environment. No pulling nor stopping issues at all.

[johnparris]

Originally Posted by Grace-n-Pup

I wanted safety above all.

This.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Airtream

It sounds like a lot of Toyota fans are here today.

AlinCal has a great point. An often overlooked issue is braking. Just because it can pull it doesn't necessarily mean it can stop it.

Why create unnecessary/unfounded fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD?) The TV brakes are designed to stop the whole rig! That’s why most States/Provinces require trailer brakes on this sized trailer. My trailer brakes can stop the complete rig if required, but I prefer to use the combination of a properly tuned rig. In fact an HD truck on its own has a longer stopping distance than most SUVs.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Airtream

It sounds like a lot of Toyota fans are here today.

AlinCal has a great point. An often overlooked issue is braking. Just because it can pull it doesn't necessarily mean it can stop it.

We live full time in our 30 classic, a bit more than what you are looking at. I decided "white knuckle" is not the way to enjoy the trip, so we have a Dodge Cummins. It is my daily driver, despite the heavy traffic of our current environment. No pulling nor stopping issues at all.

This is generally the least of the typical concerns in regards to towing.

The tow vehicle brakes stop the tow vehicle. Trailer brakes stop the trailer.

If one feels their TV is responsible for stopping the whole rig and being pushed, then it is not setup properly. Trailer brake controller gain needs to be increased.

Sure, there is potentially failure conditions, for any size and type of rig. There are ways to mitigate that too. Ensuring proactive maintenance, "preflight checks", brake checks before downhill sections, speed, maintaining distance, etc.

Don't count on an HD truck to stop shorter in emergency braking. Just like big rigs are not known stop shorter. Lots more weight, approximately same tire contact patch.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Airtream

It sounds like a lot of Toyota fans are here today.

AlinCal has a great point. An often overlooked issue is braking. Just because it can pull it doesn't necessarily mean it can stop it.

Why create unnecessary/unfounded fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD?) The TV brakes are designed to stop the whole rig! That’s why most States/Provinces require trailer brakes on this sized trailer. My trailer brakes can stop the complete rig if required, but I prefer to use the combination of a properly tuned rig. In fact an HD truck on its own has a longer stopping distance than most SUVs.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by pteck

Sure, there is potentially failure conditions, for any size and type of rig. There are ways to mitigate that too. Ensuring proactive maintenance, "preflight checks", brake checks before downhill sections, speed, maintaining distance, etc.

If there’s a trailer brake fault like an unplugged cord, a chime sounds and a warning light comes on in most trucks. You will know about it.

[tojimmiller]

The question I always ask is. “Can I stop it”. Pulling is easy. But if your on mostly flat ground, no problem, but coming down a steep grade can be very exciting. The tail might wag the dog. However you will love your airstream rv. It will last you a life time unlike the plastic RVs

[Msherw]

I’m a huge Toyota fan but I’m a bigger fan of safety.

Check the 4Runner manual on all the manufacturers specs and buy an AS that gives you at least a +10% margin of safety (RV weighs less than the Toyota spec limits) where tongue and tow weights are concerned. You never know when or where you will need the reserve for clearing terrain or stopping in an emergency. I have been in situations where if the RV had weighed near what the 4Runner weighed I may not have been able to execute a safe and quick maneuver.

We pull a 22FB and this AS gives me the margin of safety I just described.

[rmkrum]

I pull a 22 foot International CCD with a ProPride hitch and a 4wd Tacoma. It does ok when properly loaded, but I agree more horsepower and weight capacity would be a lot better. I’ve pulled some hard maneuvers and some “smoke on all 8 wheels” emergency stops with full control, but emergency situations are never fun.

Tundra will be the next TV upgrade when we do even more travel.

[Zed2]

Please update this thread when/if you decide to replace the 4Runner with another tow vehicle. Subsequent readers would benefit from your experience.
Keith

[smeserole]

I was in sort of a similar situation. Early 50’s, still working, camping on weekends with maybe one longer trip per year with our dog. We were looking at smaller trailers...Casitas and then the AS Sport, but ended up with the 23FB because of the queen size bed. However, I still needed to purchase a TV and did not want a truck or massive SUV as my daily car that I’d be driving the other 99% of the time. Husband did not want to trade in his car for a big truck or suv either. I was concerned about weight (max is 6,000) on the 23FB and we’d never travel with full tanks, but I wanted to make sure I purchased a vehicle that could handle towing the weight. I ended up with an Audi Q8 which can tow 7,700 lbs but isn’t a truck or massive SUV. Yes, it’s an expensive car and people think I’m crazy towing the AS with my Audi, but I love driving it the other 99% of the time.

[Marko Polo]

There are many whi will agree this way and that for your desire to use the 4 runner. You ahould however consider that if you exceed your TV specs in anyway, either payload, axle rating, GVCW, tire rating etcetc ANY insureance claim you make OR any accident you are involved in , your fault or not, could and may likely be declined!! Insurance most always will investigate and if you being sued the plantif side will absolutely point to your “out of compliance” and subject to consequences. You may not even get your own insurance to cover your new trailer
Why risk it and everything else?

[CreekHome]

Hello Ssm_001, I am new to the Forum, but my partner pulled our 2004 International CCD across country with a 2000 4Runner and it seemed to be alright. I was wondering about this myself- ( he has since passed away) - wondering if I need a bigger vehicle. At the moment, not going on any long trips.
Best wishes!

[hshovic]

I too purchased a 2007 Safari 25FB, and had a 2008 Forerunner to tow it. It seemed to work fine (except for steep hills), until I had the "incident"...
I was pulling the trailer through a canyon, and saw a bunch of vehicles behind me wanting to pass. So I decided to pull over at the next turnout. I pulled off, and realized it was too short, so I had to step on the brakes aggressively. That is when the trailer drove the tow vehicle! The trailer was heavy enough in relation to the tow vehicle that it pushed the Forerunner faster... Even with locked trailer brakes and ABS in full application. Scary. I ended up in the brush at the turnout edge, but did not hit the river. So after reviewing tow weights and physics I purchased a Chevy 3/4 ton truck. The trailer tows in the middle of its tow capacity. I have 120K miles and NEVER had a problem since. There are lots of lighter vehicles that will tow an Airstream..... Until you have a problem.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Ssm_001

Thank you to everyone who contributed with a response here, they were all great and I read them all, however RVeeNoob has made a concise, data driven argument against the 4runner. I simply can't have a vehicle that sounds like it's going to blow up when attempting a pass and instead will opt for the 26.5L Merlin powered Ford F22000 to show the AS who's boss.

Really though - thanks for the input. Andy/Canam seem to be a constant around here and in the Airstream world and I have read through every post he has made here and on the various blogs over the past few days, and at the end of the day his vast amounts of first-hand experience setting up and testing various TV/TT combinations and the incredible insights he has and shares in the community simply can't be ignored. Luckily I am local to his business. I am going to work with the team at Canam to get the 4runner dialled in and will let my experience drive my decisions from there.

Thanks!

Sincerely; good luck! Like I said earlier, seems like you were just looking for the answer you already knew you wanted to hear....Andy will be happy to help and even take your money to set your 4runner up as best he can, I am sure.

In the end, you really didn't want to see all of these "experienced" AS owner comments advising you to get a bigger TV for that AS, right? Keep us posted on your experiences with your Toyota and the 25'.

[Steven62]

My previous setup was a 20FB pulled by a Lexus GX460. The equivalent of the 4Runner with a V8. It did the job but you could feel that the SUV was at its limit. When I purchased a 25FB I also traded the Lexus for a Ram. The difference between the Lexus struggling to tow the 20 and the Ram easily towing the 25 was dramatic. My Lexus had the V8 your 4Runner has the 6 you can force it to do the job but it will be struggling all the way and you will feel it. If you don’t want to give up the 4Runner then consider buying a used TV strong enough for the job.

[AlinCal]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

Why create unnecessary/unfounded fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD?) The TV brakes are designed to stop the whole rig! That’s why most States/Provinces require trailer brakes on this sized trailer. My trailer brakes can stop the complete rig if required, but I prefer to use the combination of a properly tuned rig. In fact an HD truck on its own has a longer stopping distance than most SUVs.

That is until you have overloaded the TV beyond its capability.
Your trailer brakes may be able to stop the complete rig on flat ground, once or twice, but on a sustained steep grade is where the trouble begins.

[Kanusport]

My experience towing airstreams is limited to towing a 2019 sport fb which weighs @3700 lbs dry and maybe 4500 or less at capacity, so way less then the airstream you are looking at. With half the tongue weight.

I tow with a 2018 f150 ecoboost with maxtow.

You can feel the airstream behind you and I gotta say there is no way in hell I’d want to pull my trailer with a v6 Toyota. You are gonna have a your hands full and a nail biting drive. People are beating around the bush here being nice, Trying to tell ya nicely etc.

This reminds of the comedian Chris Rock, when he said, “ you can drive with your feet on the steering wheel that doesn’t make it a good idea”.

Best of luck