3 Specific setup questions F350 Air Safe with Blue Ox

[polar911]

Hi folks it's been great to read so many of the posts on towing and hitches. I'm sure you would acknowledge there are conflicting views on just about everything which have left me with some questions.

My current setup is a stock 2017 F350 6.7 towing a 25 Globetrotter with a Class VII Air Safe and a Blue Ox Sway Pro. The TT weighs 7000#, the TW is +/- 1000#, and the hitch combo weighs a whopping 130# excluding the trunions mounted to the TT.

So far so good...feels very stable, ride is smooth and we have yet to experience significant sway in 4500 miles in varying conditions. You could say I'm looking for problems that so far don't exist, but I want to confirm my setup and better understand some things by asking 3 very specific questions of the experts please:

1) The receiver on the stock F350 with 20" wheels is so high off the ground that even on the lowest holes of the Air Safe 14" shank, the trailer is 1" higher at A frame rail than the rear bumper rail, so that would be considered "tongue high," right? I understand this is really only 1/2" high since lowering the front by 1/2" would raise the rear by approx 1/2" and be about level. For my own learning, what safety risks will riding slightly tongue high present, if any?

It seems that most posters say that if you can't be level, nose/tongue LOW is better. But the person at my Airstream dealer, who has set up 100's of hitches, said the opposite, that slightly nose/tongue HIGH is better...

And perhaps the most confusing quote that I have came across on this site is "Riding tongue high will result in additional tongue weight from the trailer (on the TV). Riding tongue low will result in less tongue weight from the trailer (on the TV)." I added (on the TV) for clarity.

I'm not an engineer but just picturing this visually, I would have thought the opposite, if the tongue was HIGH, that would mean MORE weight would be on the rear axle of the trailer and LESS tongue weight would be on the bumper of the TV? Please help me understand what happens with tongue high and low, and if I should be concerned about it. There is not much I can do about it right now unless I add a 3" Dexter lift on the trailer (which I'm open to doing for other reasons).

2) The Blue Ox is on the 9th link from the loose end per general instructions and the height to the bottom of the front wheel well on the F350 is EXACTLY the same 41" before and after the trailer is attached. Some people say that on an F350 you do not need that much weight distribution to the front axle, that you should only aim to close HALF the gap before and after. What say you? Should I reduce the tension on the bars to the 8th link, and transfer less weight to the front axle, and if so, why?

3) This is the real curve ball...for someone who wants the safest solution to avoid uncontrollable sway, I am happy with everything except the weight and bulk of the combined Air Safe and Blue Ox hitch. I can handle it, but I have to be careful not to hurt my back, and together they extend farther from the receiver than I would like when driving around uncoupled at our destination.

I REALLY like the Air Safe...it has transformed the ride on rough roads, so I will keep that no matter what.

Question 3: Does anyone tow with an F350 and just an Air Safe and NO WDH while still avoiding sway? Would a simple friction anti sway device be sufficient and if so what specific model would work with an Air Safe?

Also confusing has been that several, including Ford's Chief Engineer on the 2017 Super Duty lineup, say that a WDH is not even necessary on an F350. I have towed without the Blue Ox bars engaged on trips of a few hours and not had any issues, but I would be afraid to tow longer distances without any anti sway device at all, "just in case." Please note that switching WD hitches won't address this issue, since they are all somewhat bulky and heavy, and the main anti sway hitches Hensley and ProPride won't work with an Air Safe so not an option either.

Welcome any expert advice or recommendations and especially simple layman explanations of how this all works and and why your suggestions will be better than what I'm doing now.

Thank you in advance!

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by polar911

Hi folks it's been great to read so many of the posts on towing and hitches. I'm sure you would acknowledge there are conflicting views on just about everything which have left me with some questions.

My current setup is a stock 2017 F350 6.7 towing a 25 Globetrotter with a Class VII Air Safe and a Blue Ox Sway Pro. The TT weighs 7000#, the TW is +/- 1000#, and the hitch combo weighs a whopping 130# excluding the trunions mounted to the TT.

So far so good...feels very stable, ride is smooth and we have yet to experience significant sway in 4500 miles in varying conditions. You could say I'm looking for problems that so far don't exist, but I want to confirm my setup and better understand some things by asking 3 very specific questions of the experts please:

1) The receiver on the stock F350 with 20" wheels is so high off the ground that even on the lowest holes of the Air Safe 14" shank, the trailer is 1" higher at A frame rail than the rear bumper rail, so that would be considered "tongue high," right? I understand this is really only 1/2" high since lowering the front by 1/2" would raise the rear by approx 1/2" and be about level. For my own learning, what safety risks will riding slightly tongue high present, if any?

It seems that most posters say that if you can't be level, nose/tongue LOW is better. But the person at my Airstream dealer, who has set up 100's of hitches, said the opposite, that slightly nose/tongue HIGH is better...

And perhaps the most confusing quote that I have came across on this site is "Riding tongue high will result in additional tongue weight from the trailer (on the TV). Riding tongue low will result in less tongue weight from the trailer (on the TV)." I added (on the TV) for clarity.

I'm not an engineer but just picturing this visually, I would have thought the opposite, if the tongue was HIGH, that would mean MORE weight would be on the rear axle of the trailer and LESS tongue weight would be on the bumper of the TV? Please help me understand what happens with tongue high and low, and if I should be concerned about it. There is not much I can do about it right now unless I add a 3" Dexter lift on the trailer (which I'm open to doing for other reasons).

2) The Blue Ox is on the 9th link from the loose end per general instructions and the height to the bottom of the front wheel well on the F350 is EXACTLY the same 41" before and after the trailer is attached. Some people say that on an F350 you do not need that much weight distribution to the front axle, that you should only aim to close HALF the gap before and after. What say you? Should I reduce the tension on the bars to the 8th link, and transfer less weight to the front axle, and if so, why?

3) This is the real curve ball...for someone who wants the safest solution to avoid uncontrollable sway, I am happy with everything except the weight and bulk of the combined Air Safe and Blue Ox hitch. I can handle it, but I have to be careful not to hurt my back, and together they extend farther from the receiver than I would like when driving around uncoupled at our destination.

I REALLY like the Air Safe...it has transformed the ride on rough roads, so I will keep that no matter what.

Question 3: Does anyone tow with an F350 and just an Air Safe and NO WDH while still avoiding sway? Would a simple friction anti sway device be sufficient and if so what specific model would work with an Air Safe?

Also confusing has been that several, including Ford's Chief Engineer on the 2017 Super Duty lineup, say that a WDH is not even necessary on an F350. I have towed without the Blue Ox bars engaged on trips of a few hours and not had any issues, but I would be afraid to tow longer distances without any anti sway device at all, "just in case." Please note that switching WD hitches won't address this issue, since they are all somewhat bulky and heavy, and the main anti sway hitches Hensley and ProPride won't work with an Air Safe so not an option either.

Welcome any expert advice or recommendations and especially simple layman explanations of how this all works and and why your suggestions will be better than what I'm doing now.

Thank you in advance!

I have used 3 Blue Ox hitches with my last 4 AS's. (Also had Equalizer and Reese) I do like this set up on BO, once you get it right and also use a 20" breaker bar with 1" socket to help hitch up the chain cams, after I release tension using the power jack. Works better then the stamped wrench that comes with the BO. As for 8 links, 9 links,-- I can't tell you. I know they recommend 3.5 links showing below the cams when hitched. This may vary a link or so to 4.5 in the begining due to stiffness in the spring bars. My 28' FC (AS #4) was very stiff with 1500# bars when new 3.5 years ago so we started with 4.5 showing for first couple years...now I am at the 3.5 showing...we have our links marked with cable ties, so I don't count from the end like many do. I would not recommend towing without a WDH with sway control bars...the BO does an excellent job IMHO...

[Mark of SJC]

Suggestion - Here's a transmission jack stand (on wheels, that reduces to something that you can easily throw in your truck bed...for less than $100 (with coupon) that will allow you to easily (and more importantly SAVE YOUR BACK in installing and removing the 100+lbs of the Air Safe/Blue Ox assembly.

https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb...ack-61232.html

[CharlesinGA]

Greetings. Since the last post in this thread was just a few days ago, I don't feel too bad about bumping it. I joined the AirForum some time ago, but ended up buying SOB (Bigfoor 21 ft) but tonight decided to take a peek at the forum again.

A few observations and possibly a question or two.

I am using a Blue Ox Sway Pro with 1000 lb bars, which I selected in part due to having used an Equal-i-zer on another trailer and disliking it very much due to the difficulity in setup and hookup, and the fact I needed something that had frame brackets that would not interfere with my propane tanks (they sit down inside the A frame) and not require a lot of fiberglass cutting of the fairing that covers the tanks. The BO hitch is lighter due to the cast steel construction and thinned out design of the shank and hitch head.

I too am using a 24 inch Harbor Freight breaker bar and a 12 point 1 inch socket (out of my pile of spares from the flea market) to turn the chain tensioners. No where in the instructions do I recall any mention of chain links below the bracket, just the 9th link instruction with a mention of going to 10 or 11 links as necessary.

I find the Air Safe hitch head intriguing and am having a difficult time seeing how it works with a WDH with the forces a WDH applies to the receiver. In any case I guess it works OK.

In any case, to get to your question #3, the friction anti sway devices are somewhat of a pain in that they should be released for backing and their design it to hold the trailer and tow vehicle straight by friction. The BO hitch uses the peculiar angle that the rotating sockets for the bars, are mount at so that any mis-alignment of the trailer with the tow vehicle causes one bar to increase in tension greatly so that it keeps the two in align. A weight distributing hitch does alot in eliminating "chucking", the up and down movement of the tow vehicle and trailer at the ball when going over bumps and RR tracks, and such.

Torsion axles such as on the AS and many other trailers today, require a level trailer. With leaf springs the center equalizer pivots to allow the trailer to be out of level and still exert an even load on the axles. With the torsion axles, each wheel is totally independent of the other and towing out of level puts more load on one axle vs the other. Tongue high causes the front axle to carry less load, and the rear axle to carry more load. We are talking both the suspension and the tires and bearings and everything, so level is a necessity with torsion axles. Being out of level also transfers a small amount of weight to the rear if tongue high, or the front if tongue low. Tongue high also reduces your already minimal ground clearance at the back bumper.

Question for the OP, the Air Safe appears to be made in a standard and extended shank version, so I have to assume you have the shortest possible model. How much room do you have between an OPEN tailgate and your tongue jack? and what is the approximate distance from the rear face of the trucks receiver opening, and the center line of the vertical row of holes in the WD hitch adapter. I would be curious to see how much more it would be than my BO hitch with the standard shank.

I find this curious with the Air Safe hitch shank.
Weight Dist Brackets
When Weight Distribution Bracket is used on any Air Safe receiver hitch you must reduce tongue weight capacity by 25%, for example:

Class 4 – 1,000 tongue weight reduces to 750 lbs
Class 5 – 1,400 tongue weight reduces to 1,050 lbs
Class 6 – 2,000 lbs to 1,500 lbs
Class 8 – 3,000 lbs to 2,250 lbs

Charles
'03 Ram 2500 CTD, 5.9HO six speed std cab long bed Leer top and 2008 Bigfoot 25B21RB.. Previous, Being repaired and will be sold, is a 2008 Thor/Dutchman Freedom Spirit 180. SOLD - 2007 Winnebago View 23H Motorhome.

[Airstreamer67]

My rig is older (1996 F250) and I don't use a Blue Ox with my Class V AirSafe, but I'll observe a couple of things anyway.

As the poster above says, torsion bar trailer suspensions should be used with level trailers. I don't find this to be hard to achieve at all, especially given the plethora of trailer adjustment attachments available nowadays.

I don't use weight redistribution bars because my old truck's front suspension is maxed out with the heavy diesel engine and a front-hitch storage box that I carry a couple hundred pounds in. Additional to that, some weight is transferred to the front axle when I have my 90-gallon diesel storage tank full that I have forward in the truck's bed, and about 20% of that weight is on the front as well. I surely don't want any more weight up there.

I use a couple of traditional friction sway bars on the trailer hitch, not because of sway issues per se, but to keep down that little bit of "wiggle" when the big trucks pass me up on the Interstates.

I've been using my AirSafe since 2005. It has proven to be extremely effective in allowing my 27-foot trailer to ride on air independent of the rough F250 suspension, all thanks to the extremely durable Firestone airbags on the AirSafe that it's been leaning on all these years.