23D and Ford F150 EcoBoost ... Great team !

[RFP]

We just returned from our first 'big' outing with the 23D International Serenity... a month-long trip. Since I didn't bend, break, poke, stain, or flood anything, I counted the trip a major success.

Our trip was 3,100 miles through New Mexico, Colorado (mostly), Utah, and a little bit of Arizona. Following are my thoughts on the 23D/F150 combination:

The set-up:
2014 Airstream 23D International Signature
15" Sendel wheels and Michelin 'LTX' tires replacing the OEM fourteeners
2015 Ford XLT SuperCrew F150 with 3.5 EcoBoost, Max Tow
Reese 'SC' WD hitch with 800-pound spring bars

The truck handled the 23D with zero issues. The trailer was rock steady with never the slightest hint of sway or other instability. The truck's transmission operates seamlessly between gears and the 'smart' downshifting when descending significant grades was impressive. The 3.5 EcoBoost had plenty of power and was able to handle even some pretty steep grades with apparent ease and no strain.

The first thousand miles or so of the trip, I set the truck to TOW/HAUL mode, but did not lock it out of 6th gear. Towing was effortless, but once I changed to lock the transmission out of 6th gear, fuel mileage improved dramatically.

Towing at a more or less consistent 60 MPH (2,100 RPM) we averaged for the entire trip just over 15 MPG. I'm confident it would have been notably better if I had done the sixth gear lock out for the entire trip.

The truck was very quiet and comfortable.

All in all, I couldn't be happier!

Rob

[KJRitchie]

Excellent. Maybe I should've gone with an EB. Got any photos to share?

Kelvin

[RFP]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Excellent. Maybe I should've gone with an EB. Got any photos to share?

Kelvin

Hi, Kelvin... Yep, I've got some mediocre photos! I'll put them up on FLICKR in a day or so and I'll send you the link.

I still owe you a PM , but I'm so danged far behind... I'll be back to you soon.

Rob

[eartick]

Very interesting on the ECOboost. We are fixing to buy a F150 FX4 and still studying the ECO vs the 5 liter.

I have ridden in my buddies 5 liter and it would not pull a sick (fill in blank) off a (fill in blank). It was terrible. Constantly shifting from 4th to 5th just pulling an empty box trailer at 65 mph in relatively flat country. It had to be in the gearing. He had it in tow mode but not sure about the locking 6th gear out.

Do you know what gear package you are running under the truck?

I have driven diesels almost exclusively for pulling trailers since the mid 80s and really want to get away from them and see them as over kill for the '65 AS we are renovating. Talking with the Ford dealer, am looking a 3.55 gears being pushed by the 5 liter right now with the 7K GVWR package. He says I will drop a mile or so per gallon with this gear package but should get the towing I want.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by eartick

<<< snip >>>

Do you know what gear package you are running under the truck?
<<< snip >>>

Yes, our truck has the 3.55 Diff.

Since you are doing the research, you've probably already seen this: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

And if you are thinking of a 2017 truck, the EcoBoost's already better-than-the-5.0 torque increases to 450 ft. lbs.

Rob

[NoResults]

I have a similar setup 23 Serenity FB towing with my 2016 F-150

mine is 4 wX4 with tow haul 3.55 axle 7050 GVRW 38 gal tank, I have also upgraded the tires and rims and have a lift kit.

I have around 3,000 miles on mine with 1 major trip to Colorado and back.

I am very pleased with the 150 Eco. Tows great and handled all the Colorado passes with ease.

Dave

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by eartick

I have ridden in my buddies 5 liter and it would not pull a sick (fill in blank) off a (fill in blank). It was terrible. Constantly shifting from 4th to 5th just pulling an empty box trailer at 65 mph in relatively flat country. It had to be in the gearing. He had it in tow mode but not sure about the locking 6th gear out.

I tow a 30' with a 2012 5.0 with 3.55 gears. I'm nearly maxed out as it's only rated for 7,700 lbs that year in my configuration. My trailer is around 7,000 lbs. At some point soon I will be in the market for a new truck.

That said, my truck will not hunt between 4th and 5th in that scenario. It will solidly stay in 5th. It will hunt between 5th and 6th if I don't lock out 6th. If it is truly flat and I push the speeds to 67 or 68 mph I can comfortably stay in 6th. I'm not sure what gearing your friend had but it may have been the 3.31 which I would not recommend. I wish I had the 3.73 gears. If I did I might not be thinking of a new truck.

[eartick]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

I tow a 30' with a 2012 5.0 with 3.55 gears. I'm nearly maxed out as it's only rated for 7,700 lbs that year in my configuration. My trailer is around 7,000 lbs. At some point soon I will be in the market for a new truck.

That said, my truck will not hunt between 4th and 5th in that scenario. It will solidly stay in 5th. It will hunt between 5th and 6th if I don't lock out 6th. If it is truly flat and I push the speeds to 67 or 68 mph I can comfortably stay in 6th. I'm not sure what gearing your friend had but it may have been the 3.31 which I would not recommend. I wish I had the 3.73 gears. If I did I might not be thinking of a new truck.

Yeah I think you are right. I looked at his build going down the road yesterday and sure enough he was running 3.31. I thought about 373s but did not know if they even offered them anymore from the plant anymore and thought I would do a mod once I go the truck and it did not pull the way I liked it.

Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.

[eartick]

Originally Posted by RFP

Yes, our truck has the 3.55 Diff.

Since you are doing the research, you've probably already seen this: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

And if you are thinking of a 2017 truck, the EcoBoost's already better-than-the-5.0 torque increases to 450 ft. lbs.

Rob

Thanks for the link. Great article and info. I have read all of the differences and drove both around without a trailer hooked up to them. The 3.5 was really snappy with the turbos responding very quickly when called for.

I have 4 different MSRPs (have looked at dozens) that I am considering, 2 with eco and 2 with the 5.0.

May have changed my mind back to the 3.5l.

No wait, the 5.0.......wait....

[pappy19]

The 5.0 with a 3.73 rear end ratio will tow and pull with the turbos. The real advantage in the 5.0 is the flex-fuel and the fact that it doesn't have a pair of turbos to wear out. The 5.0 is a lot less complicated than either the 3.5 or 2.7. The 5.0 can run on 85 octane while the turbos recommend premium gasoline when towing. While the Ford turbo engines make plenty of power, the more complex the engine, the more chance of something going wrong the more miles on the engine.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by pappy19

The 5.0 with a 3.73 rear end ratio will tow and pull with the turbos. The real advantage in the 5.0 is the flex-fuel and the fact that it doesn't have a pair of turbos to wear out. The 5.0 is a lot less complicated than either the 3.5 or 2.7. The 5.0 can run on 85 octane while the turbos recommend premium gasoline when towing. While the Ford turbo engines make plenty of power, the more complex the engine, the more chance of something going wrong the more miles on the engine.

No 5.0 will ever pull like the EB especially at high elevations. IMHO the 5.0 has been made obsolete by the 3.5 l EB, it is a puny motor in performance comparison.
Ford has engineered a 5L Turboed engine and it will be available in the 2017 Raptor to start with. I believe once the bugs are worked out it will be going into the F-250.

[llanderson64]

We have the same set up but have never gotten 15mpg. How does one lock out 6th gear?

[RFP]

Originally Posted by llanderson64

We have the same set up but have never gotten 15mpg. How does one lock out 6th gear?

Since there have now been a couple more 'set ups' mentioned in this thread, I can't be sure which you are referring to... but, if you are asking about ours, here's how it works for us: Engage Tow/Haul mode; then using the little "+" / "-" buttons on the shift lever, press "-" once. You should see the "6" disappear from the dash display. The transmission is now locked out of 6th gear.

Cheers!

Rob

[RFP]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

No 5.0 will ever pull like the EB especially at high elevations. IMHO the 5.0 has been made obsolete by the 3.5 l EB, it is a puny motor in performance comparison.
Ford has engineered a 5L Turboed engine and it will be available in the 2017 Raptor to start with. I believe once the bugs are worked out it will be going into the F-250.

Turbo vs. NA debates have raged loud and long, and I never intended for this thread to turn into yet another one. That said, I agree with 'franklyfrank.' I find a lot of people seem to think of turbocharging as a new - and unproven - technology. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Turbos have been around for over 100 years; it is a mature technology that is (rightfully) beginning to dominate the automotive industry. The 3.5 EcoBoost in our 2015 F150 is a superb towing engine within its designed operating parameters, and will - either on paper, or on the road - outperform Ford's current 5.0.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by llanderson64

We have the same set up but have never gotten 15mpg. <<< snip >>>

What is your typical towing speed (can make a LOT of difference)?

Do you still have 14" wheels/tires on your 23, or have you upgraded to 15"s? (might make a difference, I don't know)

[RFP]

Originally Posted by pappy19

<<< snip >>> The 5.0 can run on 85 octane while the turbos recommend premium gasoline when towing. <<< snip >>>.

Ford's "recommendation" notwithstanding, I have yet to put a single drop of premium gasoline in the EcoBoost! I had to do that with the supercharged Toyota Land Cruiser... not doing it with this one.

[llanderson64]

RFP - Thanks for the directions. I did figure out how to lock out the 6 gear.
We typically try to stay off the freeway, so 60 is probably average for us. Is it best to have the tow/haul on at all times? Would you lock out 6th gear when traveling on the freeway at faster mph? Perhaps I need a little "F150 Tow/Haul & 6th Gear Lock Out for Dummies" primer? I am always amazed at how knowledgeable you all are.

[eartick]

Originally Posted by RFP

Ford's "recommendation" notwithstanding, I have yet to put a single drop of premium gasoline in the EcoBoost! I had to do that with the supercharged Toyota Land Cruiser... not doing it with this one.

Yeah I am not sure where that came from. I talked again with my Ford contact and he said not way is that a requirement for the 3.5 EB to have to run on premium grade and that it will tow just fine on any fuel grade.

These are the internet rumors that fly out there that get wings and should not IMHO.

[eartick]

Originally Posted by llanderson64

RFP - Thanks for the directions. I did figure out how to lock out the 6 gear.
We typically try to stay off the freeway, so 60 is probably average for us. Is it best to have the tow/haul on at all times? Would you lock out 6th gear when traveling on the freeway at faster mph? Perhaps I need a little "F150 Tow/Haul & 6th Gear Lock Out for Dummies" primer? I am always amazed at how knowledgeable you all are.

You should ALWAYS use tow mode when you have anything hooked to your bumper. It will save your transmission and improve performance. It also helps in changing shift points going up and braking going down.

My 1 ton Dodge (2007) had the "lock out" that you Ford drivers are calling this. Basically all your are doing is manually putting the automatic transmission in 5th but allowing it to act like an automatic from 1st to 5th gear. Again, this is blocking out the old "overdrive" transmission gear and putting the gear ratio of the vehicle in an overall lower state.

Now using this feature would and could be used when in hilly or mountain regions OR if extra quick transmission response is needed. Also, it would be used if you were on flat land and pulling a heavy load maxing out your GVWR of your vehicle. I usually used this when I was in tow mode and pulling a heavy (15K+) load with my 1 ton on flat roads.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by eartick

Yeah I am not sure where that came from. I talked again with my Ford contact and he said not way is that a requirement for the 3.5 EB to have to run on premium grade and that it will tow just fine on any fuel grade.

These are the internet rumors that fly out there that get wings and should not IMHO.

I have had mostly turbocharged engines in my daily-driver vehicles since 1981. I tend to keep vehicles 8-10 years or so (my turbocharged Legacy Limited wagon with a 5-speed manual is 11 years old, for example) and I have replaced exactly one turbo, on a 1980 Mercury Capri 2.3 Turbo with a carburetor and no water-jacket for cooling the turbo bearing. I replaced that turbo at 145,000 miles.

There *IS* a benefit from running premium, if you drive like you stole it all the time. I've found that I can still drive like a schmuck as long as I keep up with the maintenance, and get both good performance and good service out of my forced-induction engines. Since I drive like that all the time, I can tell the difference when I'm running higher octane... on the newer cars, the computer dials back the boost less often. On the older ones, the warning lights came on less often. Good filters, good oil, regular change cycles, keep the radiators and intercoolers clean, etc.

The 3.5 Ecoboost makes enough power at low enough RPM to walk away from a 5.0 at altitude, even on regular Unleaded. If you're towing heavy or you like to tow 70 (on LT trailer tires of course, let's not confuse this argument) then you'll probably see some benefit from Super. Even with Regular, though, the pressure-altitude compensation is going to make a big difference towing above 4000 ft or so. While the 5.0 may do it, especially with a light-ish trailer and a high-numerical diff, you'll be beating it like a redheaded stepchild. My old 5.4 is hoping I trade it off before I take an Argosy back to Colorado, I guarantee it.