2021 Ford F-150 owners thread

[ddruker]

Has anyone seen detailed information on how long you can run the F150 Pro-power inverter generator when boondocking?

Ford marketing materials say "85 hours max" for the 2.4 KW setup and "32 hours max" for the 7.2KW - I'm guessing these numbers are max runtime at full output?

My Airstream rarely draws more than 1,500 watts except when starting the A/C - I'm thinking it could run for 100+ hours on a full tank? Thoughts?

[TouringDan]

I have a 2008 Tundra 5.7L that uses about 0.4 gph of fuel at idle. 1,500 watts isn’t much of a load, so I figure a similar fuel burn rate. 30 gallons of fuel would last 75 hours. The 85 hours listed by Ford is similar. I don’t expect that the generator loading has that much of an affect on the fuel burn. Time for a real test with your Airstream to get the most accurate answer.

Dan

[JMynes]

I wouldn’t want to idle my truck for three days straight.
It reminds me of the story I heard of a National Guard unit that departed a training area and convoyed back to home station. Two days later somebody realized a HMMWV was missing. They went back to the training area and found it sitting there still idling.

[dmatzinger]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

I have a 2008 Tundra 5.7L that uses about 0.4 gph of fuel at idle. 1,500 watts isn’t much of a load, so I figure a similar fuel burn rate. 30 gallons of fuel would last 75 hours. The 85 hours listed by Ford is similar. I don’t expect that the generator loading has that much of an affect on the fuel burn. Time for a real test with your Airstream to get the most accurate answer.

Dan

I don't think the F150 generator function works this way (running the generator constantly at idle). The hybrid, at least, uses the 1.5KW hybrid battery as intermediate storage. When the load draws the battery down sufficiently, the engine starts up and runs until the generator has fully charged the battery, then shuts down until needed again. Only enough fuel is used to compensate for battery drain. A stand-alone generator would be running constantly at some minimum RPM, regardless of load. I believe the run time specification is based on the KWh/gal rating of the generator system, not on the hr/gal draw of a constantly idling engine.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by ddruker

I just purchased a 2021 F-150 platinum to use to tow my Airstream and also as a gear hauler and Labrador transportation vehicle.

My former tow vehicle was a 2011 Mercedes GL350, and I have probably used it to tow the airstream 25,000 miles over the last 10 years. With 110,000 miles it is starting to die.

I was ready to buy a Mercedes GLS 580, but production delays were taking forever on the build that I ordered, and there was still no firm delivery date, so I decided to cut and run and go to plan b.

Next I looked at a ram 1500 diesel, but once but once I learned about the new hybrid engine coupled with the ProPower 7200 watt outlet in the back of the F-150 I was sold. The F-150 can actually power two airstreams at once! You can split the 240 volt outlet in the back into two 120 v 30 amp circuits. I was just sold on the idea of having a large quiet mobile generator built into the truck, and I plan to add a front power inlet to the Airstream so I can have it plugged in to AC power both when it's being towed as well as when we are camping.

I used Costco pricing and was able to get a custom ordered platinum edition that's pretty much fully loaded for $350 under invoice price, less any dealer or factory incentives available at the time of delivery. That's the Costco deal for hybrid f-150s. If I have chosen different motor, the Costco pricing was $1,250 under invoice for the platinum F-150. The non Costco Ford dealers in my area were trying very hard to stick to MSRP for custom ordered f-150s right now. Demand appears to be very high.

We looked at a bunch of colors and chose Kodiak Brown for the exterior, which comes with a caramel colored leather on the interior that we thought was a great color combination. We got the ultra super mega cab, plus a 6.5 ft bed, with four-wheel drive, and the max tow package, also with towing mirrors.

Can you tell I'm excited! I'm looking forward to dry camping if the boonies at Joshua tree with a nice cool Airstream to come back to!

My overall automobile fleet plan is the new F-150 for towing and hauling, my convertible Porsche for nice weather days only with the top down, and probably a new electric sedan as a daily driver. I test drove a a Tesla model S performance last week and was very unimpressed; I'm watching the upcoming Mercedes EQS very closely...

..you now own 2 cars...

[TouringDan]

dmatzinger- I suspect you are correct. I wonder how long it takes the battery to recharge.

Dan

[dmatzinger]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

dmatzinger- I suspect you are correct. I wonder how long it takes the battery to recharge.

Dan

I may have to backtrack here a bit. I have seen a Ford representative quoted on two points: the hybrid battery is used as intermediate storage, and the truck engine does start and stop as needed. However, I am now a little uncertain as to whether the hybrid battery will charge faster than the highest load such that it will be starting and stopping under constant high load.

I'm not a battery or electrical expert but that isn't going to stop me from speculating. Anybody out there who is knowledgeable in these things please correct me.

I have picked up this factoid from the internet: a lithium battery can be charged as fast as 1C, where C is the rate of discharge that would drain the battery in one hour (i.e., if the battery capacity is 100Ah, C=100A). In watts, C=capacity (KWh)/V. If the F150 high voltage battery is 1.5KWh, I assume C=1.5KW at whatever voltage it operates, and it couldn't be charged faster than 1.5KW. So with a 120V load of 30A = 3600W (the maximum load of one phase of the hybrid outlet), the draw would be 2.4 times the fastest possible charge rate of the battery. The truck's generator/inverter would have to have higher than 1.5KW capacity and be running constantly, essentially bypassing the battery. At loads of less than the maximum charge rate of the battery, the intermittent charging and engine start/stop could be used. This would be at less than 1.5KW or 12.5A at 120V (or 125A at 12V). Unless your AC motor is starting or the microwave is on, 12.5A/120V could go a long way, so I'd be willing to bet the truck would operate in the start/stop mode much of the time.

If the trailer's load is significantly less than 1.5KW , and if the battery discharges say 70% of its capacity before recharging, the discharge time in hours (engine off; drawing from battery) would be 0.7*1.5KWh/Wd where Wd is the watts being drawn by the load. The recharge time (engine on) might be the same if the generator could produce 1.5KW plus the load (I think this is likely because I suspect the actual generator is the 35KW drive assist motor being run as a generator, and I naively assume it could generate 35KW when driven by the engine; it has to have at least 7.2KW capacity because the outlet is rated for 7.2KW at 240V). So, e.g., with a constant 5 amp/120V (600W) load, the engine would be off 1.75 hr, then on 1.75 hr.

This is all speculation. I will be interesting to see how far off base I am.

[BayouBiker]

The battery is rated 35KW Hr and charges at just under that rate consuming about 43 Hp, 38-39 Hp of which is retained in the battery. The hybird's inverter is either 2.4 KW or 7.2 KW, the buyer has the option of either. Since the Ecoboost is only putting out 43-45 hp when charging the battery, it is not at its peak efficiency. It's not a poor circumstance but not ideal either. All in all it makes for a very expensive inverter generator system that is not particularly efficient or quiet.

[JeffCross]

I have also ordered a new F-150 Powerboost Lariat with the 7.2Kw option. In theory it has built on Friday and will be delivered in mid-March.

I certainly understand that I could have purchased a number of generators for the additional expense of the Powerboost option, but I am hoping for a gas MPG savings when not towing. I do like the idea of not hauling a generator and simply being able to plug in the AS to top off my batteries or to run the A/C when I want to.

I am curious if anyone has used the Powerboost and what were your impressions.

[dmatzinger]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

The battery is rated 35KW Hr and charges at just under that rate consuming about 43 Hp, 38-39 Hp of which is retained in the battery. The hybird's inverter is either 2.4 KW (130V) or 7.2 KW (240V), the buyer has the option of either. Since the Ecoboost is only putting out 43-45 hp when charging the battery, it is not at its peak efficiency. It's not a poor circumstance but not ideal either. All in all it makes for a very expensive inverter generator system that is not particularly efficient or quiet.

Brian:

I think you are confusing the specs for the hybrid battery and the generator/drive assist motor. As you can see in this link (if the moderator allows it), the hybrid battery has a 1.5KWh capacity and the electric motor/generator delivers 35KW (=47 hp):

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...er_SP_C113.pdf

Also, hp is a rate, not an amount; batteries don't store hp, they store KWh (although you could spec a battery capacity in terms of hp-hr, but nobody uses that unit).

Regarding efficiency, I believe there is a simple way to rate the efficiency of using of the F150 hybrid generator vs the efficiency of a stand alone portable generator (I do this because many people seem to assume intuitively that generating electricity with the truck has to be less efficient than a portable generator). All portable generators I've looked at give specs for runtime at a specified load for the duration one tank of gasoline, whose volume is also given. This allows calculation of efficiency in terms of KWh/gal. Ford does the same for the F150 hybrid generator system. Here are sources of this data for the F150 hybrid and the Honda EU3000iS portable generator:

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...er_SP_C113.pdf

https://powerequipment.honda.com/gen...eu3000is#Specs

Ford says the F150 hybrid can generate 7.2KW for 32 hrs on its 30.6 gal fuel tank. this gives (7.2*32)/30.6 = 7.5 KWh/ga. They say at 2.4 KW it can run for 85 hrs, giving 6.7 KWh/gal

Honda says its generator will deliver 2.8KW for 6.9 hrs on 3.4 gal. this gives 5.6 KWh/gal.

So according manufacturer's specifications, the F150 hybrid is 20-34% more efficient in fuel use than the Honda generator. I have ordered an F150 hybrid with the 7,2 KW option and one of the first things I plan to do after delivery is test the generator's efficiency. I think I'll use it to charge my plug-in hybrid SUV while measuring electricity and gas consumption (and noise level).

My intuitive feeling is that at low loads, the energy consumed by running the ICE would be wasted if it were run constantly. That is why I assume Ford is drawing from the battery with the engine off then starting the engine as necessary to recharge. As I pointed out (hypothesized), at high loads this would not be possible because the maximum battery recharge rate would be lower than the draw rate. However, less of the ICE energy consumption would be wasted than if the engine were run constantly.

I don't think anybody would buy the F150 hybrid (vs non-hybrid) just to get the onboard generator. I'm buying it mainly to get the better city gasoline fuel efficiency while additionally getting the drive torque boost of the electric motor. Once you opt for the hybrid, the 2.4 KW generator is free, but you can only get 20A at 120V. The 7.2 KW option costs $750, giving you 30A at 120V (3.2KW on each of 2 circuits). If I had already decided on a hybrid but needed the 30A/120V capacity, a 3000W Honda generator would cost me over $1K (over $2K for the EU300iS). And it would be a hassle to carry around. The real question is not whether the generator is efficient or cost-effective; the real question is does the hybrid make sense. The that is a whole other story.

David

[dmatzinger]

The other advantage of the 7.2KW generator option is the weight penalty of the portable generator. The Honda EU3000iS weighs 131 lb, which would decrease available payload. Because the 7.2KW option is presumably using the existing drive assist motor, the only weight penalty might be the difference in weight of associated equipment such as converters/inverters. Probably minimal.

[BayouBiker]

You're right David, my bad about the battery capacity mix up, was reading the specs too quickly. Also thanks for the corrections of my fast typing regarding power and energy. It was also based on bad data for the battery so the values are also wrong. About the only thing I may have gotten right is the motor/generator size. I may revisit the part on efficiency later. thanks for setting me straight.

[TouringDan]

I now travel with a Tundra/Zamp 1,000 watt inverter generator. It weighs about 10 lbs, costs about $200 and charges my lithium batteries the same as if I was plugged into shore power.

The engineering that has gone into the Ford F-150 hybrid and the performance is truly amazing. However the complexity scares me. Will it be reliable? I hope so.

Dan

[SailorSam205]

Originally Posted by dmatzinger

Brian:

I think you are confusing the specs for the hybrid battery and the generator/drive assist motor. As you can see in this link (if the moderator allows it), the hybrid battery has a 1.5KWh capacity and the electric motor/generator delivers 35KW (=47 hp):

David

If Ford did some KISS engineering on this, why would they depend on the drive assist motor to charge the battery while stationary? Wouldn't they be using the trucks alternator which I think is rated at ~200 amps? If they did, they would just need to possibly upgrade the alternator to battery wiring. Am I missing something?

If they are using the alternator, to me, that supports the numbers you reported.
Car and Driver reported the alternator capacity in this post.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-2020/specs

[CarterKraft]

Originally Posted by SailorSam205

If Ford did some KISS engineering on this, why would they depend on the drive assist motor to charge the battery while stationary? Wouldn't they be using the trucks alternator which I think is rated at ~200 amps? If they did, they would just need to possibly upgrade the alternator to battery wiring. Am I missing something?

If they are using the alternator, to me, that supports the numbers you reported.
Car and Driver reported the alternator capacity in this post.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-2020/specs

I don't see any reason they would use the 12v systems alternator for the ProPower system.

[dmatzinger]

Originally Posted by SailorSam205

If Ford did some KISS engineering on this, why would they depend on the drive assist motor to charge the battery while stationary? Wouldn't they be using the trucks alternator which I think is rated at ~200 amps? If they did, they would just need to possibly upgrade the alternator to battery wiring. Am I missing something?

If they are using the alternator, to me, that supports the numbers you reported.
Car and Driver reported the alternator capacity in this post.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-2020/specs

My understanding is that most hybrids don't have alternators. They use the electric motor/generator to charge the batteries and draw off of that. An alternator would be redundant.

https://plugincarworld.com/do-hybrid...e-alternators/

[dmatzinger]

The non-hybrid version of the F150 is probably using the 200 amp alternator. Its outboard power outlets are limited to 2KW, which gives some safety margin for the 2.4KW alternator. The standard outlet on the hybrid is 2.4KW (corresponding to a full 20A/120V). The 7.2 KW hybrid outlet option definitely could not be powered by a 200 amp/12V alternator.

[JeffCross]

My Powerboost F150 isn't here yet and I was trying to think ahead, but I may have made a mistake. I have the 7.2KW option and I purchased this as an adaptor for my 2019 22' Sport. Is this the wrong adaptor?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks

[JEB]

Originally Posted by JeffCross

My Powerboost F150 isn't here yet and I was trying to think ahead, but I may have made a mistake. I have the 7.2KW option and I purchased this as an adaptor for my 2019 22' Sport. Is this the wrong adaptor?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks

Yes. I think this is what you want. https://www.amazon.com/Miady-4-Prong...%2C193&sr=8-10

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by JeffCross

My Powerboost F150 isn't here yet and I was trying to think ahead, but I may have made a mistake. I have the 7.2KW option and I purchased this as an adaptor for my 2019 22' Sport. Is this the wrong adaptor?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks

As JEB pointed out, the high-amp connection on the 7.2kw Powerboost is the NEMA L14-30 (according to Ford literature, and the photos are a match for it.) However, you haven't wasted your money... the 50A RV to 30A RV dogbone you bought may be useful to you. I've camped a couple of places that only had 50A receptacles, and several where the 30A receptacles looked like someone had taken a hammer to them. Repeatedly. So sometimes the 50A is more usable, though technically your 30A cord is at a small risk since the 50A breaker won't protect it appropriately. IMHO a loose, abused 30A receptacle is a bigger real-world problem.