2013 Cayenne diesel TV

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Scott,


The typical 18-wheeler tractor is outweighed by the towed trailer(s) by 3-10x, & most 1/2, 3/4 & 1 ton pick-ups are rated to tow 2-4x their weight - so that TV must weigh more than the trailer to be safe just doesn't hold water.


I see from some later posts that you do know Cay owners who tow - maybe offer to share driving duties with one towing to the track or an AS or other rec trailer to see for yourself.


We have many PCA Zone 8 members who've towed big heavy open & enclosed (both box & v-front) car haulers & a few AS/camper trailers for 2+ decades & love them! Zero safety concerns.



I've done both the F150/F250 & RAM2500/3500 vs. the Cayenne towing thing, & I'd much prefer to be in the bigger brake per TV weight, better/stiffer suspension (to resist roll) & better steering response, lower profile & much lower center of gravity Cay in any emergency maneuver & situation.



The trucks of today are far less stable than 15-20 years ago models, due to their marketing departments insisting on jacking them all up 12-24" MORE than what their suspension travel allows, so that they look cool on TV & in the showroom for the wannabe off-road hotshots!



I mean really - REALLY - would anyone in their right mind tow with a "Monster Truck"!? Which is essentially what the Big 3 + Toyota/Nissan followers have done by jacking their new trucks up almost as much as what the 1st gen Monster Trucks were!



Been there, done that & FYI the 2014-18 F250s with which I've towed are relatively under-braked & tend to pull to the right under hard braking with all 25+/- 2012-2018 MYs which we've rented - & that's with an older & much lighter +/-3000 lb 1960 Avion T20 vintage kin in tow!



For the up to 27-30' ASs being discussed here which are within the Cayenne's towing weights specs (& for other smaller SUVs) - the Cayenne is an excellent TV, & will be a far more comfortable ride.



Go try a Cayenne towing anything, then report your findings back here. I'm sure that some of your PCA Zone 6 folks can let you give it a try.



Cheers!
Tom
... also a Porsche owner since 1975, but only a PCA member since `09
///////

Hello Tom T,


Do not mean to offend, not my intent.


Many points well stated and taken. We prefer the wife's RR over the Cayenne for the SUV experience.


Again not to offend, have no interest in towing our 30' Classic w/either. If we had bought a 25' AS very likely would tow w/the RR.



Best regards and safe travels

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

According to post 90 they already bought the PU. May not be the 100k model, but plenty of people towing with such a beast. They just didn't want to stick out.

It doesn’t appear that post 90 is the original poster.

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by jcl

It doesn’t appear that post 90 is the original poster.

I didn't say they were. I just quoted part of item 3 of their post #90 which someone else mistook for me suggesting that they purchase a PU.

[T2plt]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Huh!?



I fail to see the point nor relevance of this to the OP's question!?


She already owns the Cayenne TDI, & you want her to go out & buy a $100K new truck from the Big 3 so she won't stand out!? WT*!!??



Are you a salesperson for Ford, Chevy, GM, RAM, Toyota, Nissan - or what!?

I think what gator.bigfoot was referencing is etrax cited the challenge of making friends with his camping neighbors when rolling up in a AS towed by a Porsche as one of the reasons he now tows with his truck. He was making the comment that many trucks exceed the price of a Cayenne. I have found this to be true especially on the used market and I wasn't quite following that line of reasoning as well.

[PKI]

Actually it makes meeting your neighbors easier. After you roll in they walk over and ask "don't you have problems towing with that?" Your answer is a simple "no" with examples of where you have traveled and then you ask them about their travels. It is much more of an opportunity than a handicap. And you will be surprised how often it is a wife that would really like to drive a capable SUV who is the most interested.

Travel safe and with a smile. Pat

[0557]

Originally Posted by PKI

Actually it makes meeting your neighbors easier. After you roll in they walk over and ask "don't you have problems towing with that?" Your answer is a simple "no" with examples of where you have traveled and then you ask them about their travels. It is much more of an opportunity than a handicap. And you will be surprised how often it is a wife that would really like to drive a capable SUV who is the most interested.



Travel safe and with a smile. Pat

How about not giving Damn what other people think?

[bono]

Population at campgrounds is more less the same as here: 90% of the crowd is convinced that only trucks can tow and looking at TV other than trucks with disgust, 8% is not really sure, 2% is convinced that there are better options for towing than trucks.

Originally Posted by PKI

Actually it makes meeting your neighbors easier. After you roll in they walk over and ask "don't you have problems towing with that?" Your answer is a simple "no" with examples of where you have traveled and then you ask them about their travels. It is much more of an opportunity than a handicap. And you will be surprised how often it is a wife that would really like to drive a capable SUV who is the most interested.

Travel safe and with a smile. Pat

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by T2plt

I think what gator.bigfoot was referencing is etrax cited the challenge of making friends with his camping neighbors when rolling up in a AS towed by a Porsche as one of the reasons he now tows with his truck. He was making the comment that many trucks exceed the price of a Cayenne. I have found this to be true especially on the used market and I wasn't quite following that line of reasoning as well.

Thanks for clarifying. My line of reasoning is if it tows who cares.

I drive a 10 year old vehicle with over 200k on it and it's towed from coast to coast. Been to the east coast with it 7 times. If I were to sell it I'd be lucky to get 10K. What can I buy for that? I looked this summer at replacing it and if I get the same features I'm at a minimum of 75K and upwards of 100K. It doesn't matter if its another MB or Japanese or American vehicle that's what they cost new for the configuration I want. And I'd be giving up on fuel economy since the diesels aren't available in anything but a PU and a LR. No thanks. I'll stick to my old SUV. I'd love the Porsche but since the diesels are rare and becoming more so I'll just stick to what I have for now.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by bono

Population at campgrounds is more less the same as here: 90% of the crowd is convinced that only trucks can tow and looking at TV other than trucks with disgust, 8% is not really sure, 2% is convinced that there are better options for towing than trucks.

or............90% that tow w/trucks like trucks and want trucks. Disgust, where did this come from? Could this be a perception issue, maybe? 2% better options? Anything is possible.



Guess this is why we all see different TV's towing. Does not mean one is better than the other. I would venture to guess the majority tow w/what best fits them. I would venture to suggest most could care less what others tow with.



Best regards and safe travels

[bono]

If all people towing with trucks do this as a result of informed decisions, then that is great. Unfortunately, IMO this is not the case and many tow with trucks because their neighbors are doing this, because they read over forum that you need truck to tow, etc.

I don't care what others are using for towing or how fast they are towing. However I noticed many times at campgrounds reactions of others clearly disapproving my choice. Truck owners don't experience this because if you tow with truck, you are fine.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by bono

If all people towing with trucks do this as a result of informed decisions, then that is great. Unfortunately, IMO this is not the case and many tow with trucks because their neighbors are doing this, because they read over forum that you need truck to tow, etc.

I don't care what others are using for towing or how fast they are towing. However I noticed many times at campgrounds reactions of others clearly disapproving my choice. Truck owners don't experience this because if you tow with truck, you are fine.

Well, your assumptions are just that. I believe most folks who tow with trucks understand that trucks today, are advertised as TV's as part of their makeup. You can get your truck pretty much set up how you want "stock" to tow and haul. You don't see any commercials showing a Porsche being advertised pulling a large TT, or being advertised for hauling a load in the back...you just don't. (unless your watching a YouTube of Andy's place, perhaps?) Not saying that's bad, but it's just fact. As others have said, to each his own...I think most of us respect your TV choice; just don't agree with it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by bono

If all people towing with trucks do this as a result of informed decisions, then that is great. Unfortunately, IMO this is not the case and many tow with trucks because their neighbors are doing this, because they read over forum that you need truck to tow, etc.

I don't care what others are using for towing or how fast they are towing. However I noticed many times at campgrounds reactions of others clearly disapproving my choice. Truck owners don't experience this because if you tow with truck, you are fine.

Guys like trucks. That’s why they buy them. It’s that simple. Outdoorsy types tend to prefer pickup trucks. I’m not gonna show up to deer camp in a Porsche.

[bono]

In Europe you don't see virtually any ads re towing. Maybe therefore people don't find it strange to tow with sedans.

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, your assumptions are just that. I believe most folks who tow with trucks understand that trucks today, are advertised as TV's as part of their makeup. You can get your truck pretty much set up how you want "stock" to tow and haul. You don't see any commercials showing a Porsche being advertised pulling a large TT, or being advertised for hauling a load in the back...you just don't. (unless your watching a YouTube of Andy's place, perhaps?) Not saying that's bad, but it's just fact. As others have said, to each his own...I think most of us respect your TV choice; just don't agree with it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

According to post 90 they already bought the PU. May not be the 100k model, but plenty of people towing with such a beast. They just didn't want to stick out.

Okay Gator -



However, that wasn't the OP Alessandra at post #1 & not since, who already owned a Cayenne TDI Diesel & wants to use it to two an AS they want. It was also a lot of posts ago, & that poster was actually talking about a lot of other things - other than the flippant comment about campground neighbor acceptance.



Of note. that poster Etrax also said that his F150 did not handle as well as his Cayenne when towing, for which I think he was countering many comments about how great truck handle - with some claiming better than the Cayenne.



Etrax posted in #90 a comment about their intending to use their Cayenne S (gas) which they also already owned, to pull their Airstream, but changed their mind & got an F150 in order to:



1. Haul a ton of crap to apparently move home to campground which requires a larger TV (I don't recall ever bringing that much stuff as a kid with 5 sibs, nor with our own 2 kids);



2. Concerns that only one "dealer" ... "advocate" towing with a Cayenne - but CanAm is not a Porsche dealer, but a trailer/RV dealer, & every Porsche dealer worldwide advocates towing with Cayennes, Macans, & in other countries with Panameras, & for smaller trailers with any other current Porsche model - ALL of which have factory tow bar options.


That should not be a concern of yours Etrax - nor anyone else, since there are 10,000s of Cayenne owners who are towing both AS/travel trailers/caravans & car haulers worldwide, & here in the US.

This big truck only mantra is just a load of Hooey!



It is only on here & similar US trailer forums where I see such vehemence against towing with anything but a big ole honking pick-em-up truck .... by certain people.


3. I took this one as more of a tongue-in-cheek humor about AS & Porsche being snooty, but then maybe he should just get a beat up canned ham trailer & beater truck, if he wants to fit in.

.



Also regarding brake controllers & Rear Cameras on Cay/Treg/Q7


Etrax also mentioning wanting more room in the cabin after adding the brake controller & rear camera screen - BUT



FYI Etrax & others looking at these issues for your Cay -



A - if properly installed up behind the lower dash fascia, the in dash brake controller should not take away leg room.


However, a better solution - especially if you may tow with multiple TVs, but even with just one - is to get the trailer A-frame mounted Tekonsha Prodigy RF (same electronics as the in dash Prodigy), where the brake controller box stays on the AS/trailer.


Then you just plug in the hand held control unit into a 12v/cig. lighter socket & keep the unit handy in your lap or center console - no reaching & fumbling to find the booster switch in the lower dash!



Shop around for best price, but here's eTrailer who had a sale when I got ours in 2012 -



https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Contr...sha/90250.html



.



B - if you get the proper aftermarket cameras which link to the center console display, then you don't need the extra screen!


NavTV is the one recommended to me by a Porsche Tech, & this is the link to the factory fit camera for the 2014 MY Cay & Toureg (& Q7?), but enter in your own vehicle info, & you may need the additional interface module depending on which radio/nav unit is on yours.


https://navtv.com/products/category/..._2014_usa.html


They also make units which integrate into the factory systems & center screens of many other makes, so it may even be helpful to the pick-up crowd.



.


C - Lastly, for the Cayenne, Touareg & Q7, Macan, Q5 & Tiquan & Atlas owners out there - you can get the factory hitch option from any dealer or seller of original Porsche, VW, Audi parts, & install them on your car if it wasn't fitted with the towing option at the factory. They tend to run about $1000 + dealer installation & reprogramming of the on-board computers for the tow mode.


Why do this instead of a cheaper Curt or other aftermarket hitch?


Because the factory units have the extra electronics which when installed & set-up/programmed by the dealer, will automatically sense the trailer is hitched then set & keep you in Tow Mode!



None of the others will do so AFAIK, & I don't know that you can manually set tow mode without the factory hitch. So those folks are essentially towing in regular driving mode, without benefit of the remapped ening & transmission, nor boosted braking which they all should have in automatic tow mode.



Yeah, I hear that the aftermarket hitch sellers say that you can, but that was NOT the experience of a couple of local Cay owners whom I know who wasted +/- $500 on a Curt or other non-factory hitch install, then had to go buy & do the factory hitch install!



Hopefully this is helpful info.



Cheers!
Tom
///////

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, your assumptions are just that. I believe most folks who tow with trucks understand that trucks today, are advertised as TV's as part of their makeup. You can get your truck pretty much set up how you want "stock" to tow and haul. You don't see any commercials showing a Porsche being advertised pulling a large TT, or being advertised for hauling a load in the back...you just don't. (unless your watching a YouTube of Andy's place, perhaps?) Not saying that's bad, but it's just fact. As others have said, to each his own...I think most of us respect your TV choice; just don't agree with it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Not so. Take a look at the 10 m long expandable mobile showrooms Porsche had built and pulled around Australia with Cayenne diesels.





Full details here from the Porsche media site:

https://www.porsche.com/australia/_n...&id=2017-10-18

And of course, Porsche advertised pulling an Airbus 380....

[thewarden]

And of course, Porsche advertised pulling an Airbus 380....

[/QUOTE]

At 12-15% tongue weight, this must be a beast, and a bit challenging getting into State Park campsights.

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, your assumptions are just that. I believe most folks who tow with trucks understand that trucks today, are advertised as TV's as part of their makeup. You can get your truck pretty much set up how you want "stock" to tow and haul. You don't see any commercials showing a Porsche being advertised pulling a large TT, or being advertised for hauling a load in the back...you just don't. (unless your watching a YouTube of Andy's place, perhaps?) Not saying that's bad, but it's just fact. As others have said, to each his own...I think most of us respect your TV choice; just don't agree with it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Attachment 1o

Well, marketers have the American male’s ego to thank for the robust sales of pickup trucks. Not really about towing performance but image. Why a 3/4 ton pickup for a Bambi?[ATTACH]327486[/ATTACHAttachment 1]

[bono]

I heard they used Propride. 10% tongue weight and no sway.

Originally Posted by thewarden

And of course, Porsche advertised pulling an Airbus 380....

At 12-15% tongue weight, this must be a beast, and a bit challenging getting into State Park campsights. [/QUOTE]

[RandyNH]

When I saw that I thought the Porsche had broken down and they were trying to push start it.

(You know, cause there wasn't an authorized repair center within 400 miles)

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jcl

Not so. Take a look at the 10 m long expandable mobile showrooms Porsche had built and pulled around Australia with Cayenne diesels.





Full details here from the Porsche media site:

https://www.porsche.com/australia/_n...&id=2017-10-18

And of course, Porsche advertised pulling an Airbus 380....

You think perhaps, these pictures are because there aren't any Ford/Chevy/RAM Truck dealerships over there so they have to use what they have? Would make sense! I know in Europe, you don't see many if any, American made pickups driving around...I remember seeing a motorcycle pulling a TT in Germany a few years back...the roads in many countries I visited, were pretty narrow, and if you remember is why the Sport originally was the "European" model of AS...it was narrow and sold over there exclusively in the beginning, I believe? From the AS Europe site...note what they say about width an load on the website...

Vehicle width
Europe = 2.55 meters – United States = 2.68 meters
Everything is slightly larger in USA inlcuding the streets. Taking advantage of wider roads, trucks, motorhomes and caravans are also built wider than in Europe. All US Airstreams avobe 23 feet total length are only offered in 2.58 meter width. Together with the awning, they are even up to 2.68 cm wide and therefore illegal to be driven on European roads. European models are built to a maximum width of 2.43m. The 2.3-meter-wide variant of the Airstream 534 and 604 is not offered at all in the United States.
Maximum vertical load
MAX Europe: 150 KG – USA up to 600 KG
The most popular tow vehicle in USA is the Ford F150 Pickup. Being a 1,5 ton truck it has a heavy duty suspension in the rear and needs quite some tongue weight for a smooth ride. The general rule in the US is that any trailer should have a tongue weight of about 20% of its max weight. With a 3-ton trailer, this equals to about 600KG. The tongue weight of a trailer is determined by the position of the axles. Axles on US models are positioned further back than on European models. The position of the axle cannot be changed easily as floorplans are specifically designed to to cover the wheel boxes inside. Adding balance in the rear to compensate tongue weight puts additional stress on the chassis and results into an unsatisfactory driving behavior. Therefore, it is NOT recommended by Airstream and will void any warranty. All European Airstream Floorplans are designed upfront to have the axles positions in the middle and reduce tongue weight to the European standard of maximum 150KG.