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JFScheck · 11-12-2013, 04:29 PM

So, with this thread on my mind I left last Wednesday and returned just last night (Monday) on a big "final trip of the season" with my 2013 Ram 2500HD Cummings and 2013 Airstream 27FB with Pro Pride Hitch.

Lots of stop and go beach traffic on good ole' 50 heading east to Assateague and again back west to home in Bethesda, with a few good hardy "stops" due to a few traffic lights, ucky drivers, etc. along the way…

Zero Issues in breaking, smooth as butter, could not be any better!

Just my two cents and experiences as I was "Hyper" focused on all braking events during this trip because of this thread.

SteveH · 11-15-2013, 07:13 PM

Glad it's working well for you John, but I've got another chapter to add to this story....a couple of day ago I hooked up to a trailer with hydraulic disc brakes (Electric over Hydraulic), and the brakes would not work at all.

The computer in the truck kept saying the brakes weren't hooked up.

Took it to a RV dealer service department, they tested everything, and determined the problem was with the controller. So, to make the controller "see" the brakes, the tech put a 12 volt light bulb in parallel with the brake actuator, and then it sort of worked. I say sort of because the delay with this rig is now about five seconds.

I tried it in light electric over hydraulic, and heavy electric over hydraulic, and the brakes were just stronger in heavy mode, but the excessive delay was still there.

ROBERT CROSS · 11-15-2013, 08:29 PM

Steve,

Seriously...I think it's time to try a stand alone controller.
I don't see how it would effect the Mopar unit if you don't compromise that circuit.
Four wires, ground, power, actuator/brake light and the output to the magnets.
Has the dealer actually told you that it can't/shouldn't be done?

If it was me I'd try it, if for no other reason than the satisfaction gained from the "I knew it" moment when you tell them what fixed it.

Bob

ghaynes755 · 11-16-2013, 10:22 AM

Steve maybe it is time to look into the lemon law for your state. Lot's of anecdotal stories about folks that got to the proverbial 'straw that broke the camels back' and the manufacturer suddenly got into the game for real.

BAB · 11-17-2013, 04:24 PM

I have been following this mystery, primarily because I had ordered a RAM truck. My truck arrived about 6 weeks ago. 2014 RAM 2500 4x4 CC Laramie with Cummins 6.7L diesel. I hitched it, set up the controller to the "Medium" setting and hoped that Steve's issue wouldn't be mine as well. It wasn't. My rig works perfectly. I've towed around 800 miles now over all kinds of terrain and the RAM/Airstream combo is awesome. Major plus is the exhaust brake. I sure hope that whatever has caused this gets fixed. Too much pain in this sad tale.

switz · 11-17-2013, 06:44 PM

Steve,

What month was your 2012 built? Mine was built in June 2012 and perhaps has the issue you have described in this thread. I felt the side thrust as I took the 25FB to the dealership to trade it in.

We had added an incandescent bulb for each rear brake light so the Mercedes could see a light load that was not generated by the LED lights. That was necessary for the car to go into towing mode. I wonder if those extra bulbs could be causing an issue?

When the new Classic 30 gets here towards the end of January, I will be interested to see what happens when hitting the brakes without the incandescent bulbs in the brake light circuit.

My spare tire is the wireless Tekonsa brake controller I used on the Mercedes. I want to keep the HaHa as the Hensley 2" drop stinger is an exact fit for the airbag suspension and Curt 2,550 pound rated receiver on the truck and keeping the trailer nearly level. The PPP option would be off over an inch.

The reality is one swap out could be a bad replacement. A second swap out could be a better clue if the problem is the controller. Also, check the date code on the replacement controller to ensure it is not the same batch as the current controller.

dkottum · 11-17-2013, 07:06 PM

switz, concerning the incandescent bulbs to create current resistance, could the slight delay as they heat up cause delay in the brake application. Also, are they in series or parallel with the circuit. If in series a burned out bulb would open the circuit, if in parallel a burned out bulb would change the resistive load. Either one may make the brake system inoperative, perhaps. Maybe better to use resistors?

SteveH · 11-21-2013, 07:11 PM

The bulb was in parallel with the actuator to make the controller "see" a connection and basically turn itself on.

I did some measurements yesterday, and the input to the actuator is about 50 ohms, which is way high compared to the magnets in an electric brake system, but this thing is supposed to be designed to work with electric over hydraulic systems.

A typical electro magnet in an electric brake system is about 4 ohms, so when you parallel four of them with a tandem axle trailer, the load is about 1 ohm of resistance. Basically, the electric brakes are current controlled, and the electric over hydraulic are voltage controlled.

Anyway, not liking the idea of my brake system integrity dependent on a light bulb, I tried various resistors in parallel with the actuator, and found a 25 ohm resistor is about the max I can use and have the controller still recognize that it is hooked up, so that's what I have installed.

We have a rally next weekend so I will know then if it's any better.

Switz, the manufacture date of my truck was 11/11, so it's about seven months older than yours.

Pahaska · 11-22-2013, 09:08 AM

See my article in the current Airstream Life magazine on using brake magnets in parallel with the electric over hydraulic actuator to make the integrated controller think it is seeing electric brakes.

SteveH · 11-22-2013, 09:25 AM

John,

I know a magnet in parallel will work, but I wanted to get the largest resistance I could and still make the controller work because I feel a 4 ohm shunt takes too much power away from the actuator.

Just my opinion.

SteveH · 12-20-2013, 01:12 PM

I think I may have stumbled on to a/the likely problem with this on going trailer brake delay issue with this truck/controller.

I was reading on the Dexter website under brake troubleshooting, and it said if you have delay with hydraulic brakes, bleed the system. Check. If you have delay with electric brakes, adjust the brakes. Check. If you still have delay, check that the wire size in the vehicle's brake circuit is at least 10 gage. Ah ha!

Got under the Ram, and the largest wire size going to that connector looks like it may be 14 gage. I've made a call to the dealer service manager, and of course had to leave a message for him to call me. Again, I await a return call.

switz · 12-20-2013, 03:26 PM

Even if the wire is 12 gage, there still is a big voltage drop in 12Vdc with a long wire.

Airstreamer67 · 12-21-2013, 06:55 AM

The larger wire will produce more voltage which is certainly desirable, but not any faster.

I wonder why they mention a "delay" as a factor in this equation. Maybe because one would feel a stronger brake with more voltage delivered, thus reducing the feeling of a delayed effect.

RBolton · 12-21-2013, 09:29 AM

I'm guessing that the information from the Dexter site was general information that could be applied to the truck as well as the trailer. In this situation, I think it would be directing you to check the trailer brake adjustment - if there is any. You are convinced that the problem is with the truck and it very well may be, but you didn't mention inspecting the wiring (gauge) on the trailer.

SteveH · 12-21-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBolton

I'm guessing that the information from the Dexter site was general information that could be applied to the truck as well as the trailer. In this situation, I think it would be directing you to check the trailer brake adjustment - if there is any. You are convinced that the problem is with the truck and it very well may be, but you didn't mention inspecting the wiring (gauge) on the trailer.

You are right, I did not inspect the trailer wiring because the wire size did not change on the trailer when I traded trucks, all Airstreams of the same vintage probably use the same wire size, and this problem is common it seems only to my trailers and my truck. Also since I have this problem with my truck towing any brake equipped trailer, the obvious culprit is the truck, or systems within it.

If insufficient wire size could cause this problem (really resistance in the circuit), so could a resistance joint anywhere in the circuit, and that could be at any connector in the truck.

Pahaska · 12-21-2013, 09:58 AM

Any wire resistance drop should be cancelled out by simply dialing up the voltage coming from the brake controller. With my disc brakes, 6V on the controller seems to be the sweet spot. Resistance does not equate to delay.

SteveH · 12-21-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Any wire resistance drop should be cancelled out by simply dialing up the voltage coming from the brake controller. With my disc brakes, 6V on the controller seems to be the sweet spot. Resistance does not equate to delay.

Dexter says it does.

switz · 12-22-2013, 07:59 AM

That makes sense when thinking using hydraulics for convenience and visualization. If I used ⅛" brake lines to each wheel, the flow volume of the oil to push against the brake pucks is restricted by that small diameter line so will take time to build up the pressure and move the oil to push. If I used ⅜" line, I would have much more volume capability to quickly move the brake puck.

Too small of a wire operates in the same way as the resistance increases with the smaller wires, especially in the 12Vdc world with voltage drop nearly geometrically increasing as the wire size gets smaller.

To make a point, increasing wire size to #8 from #14 would allow more of the voltage to arrive quickly to operate the brake mechanism.

Since from trial and error, the common problem element in SteveH's trailer braking experiments has been the truck. Rather than attempt to trace all the joints and undue all the factory wire bundles, it might be easier to run a pair of heavier wires from the brake controller directly to the plug socket on the back of the truck.

SteveH · 12-22-2013, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz

Too small of a wire operates in the same way as the resistance increases with the smaller wires, especially in the 12Vdc world with voltage drop nearly geometrically increasing as the wire size gets smaller.

To make a point, increasing wire size to #8 from #14 would allow more of the voltage to arrive quickly to operate the brake mechanism.

Don't know if you mistyped or not, but in the electrical world, the smaller the number, the larger the wire.

dkottum · 12-22-2013, 09:01 AM

I think the smaller wire may restrict current flow when the controller first applies power to the brake actuators. There may be a momentary voltage drop calling for increased current to operate the actuators. Perhaps the long #14 wire can't carry it.

A test may be to disconnect a wire to one brake actuator on each side to reduce power demand, and see if there is a delay operating the remaining two brakes.