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Old 01-08-2022, 09:47 AM   #1
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1000# vs. 1400# bars?

We purchased a ProPride 3P awhile back and talked to the company Rep. who advised us that with our future 27’ FC, we would need the 1400# weight distributing spring bars. After purchasing the hitch, we changed our minds and ordered a 28’.
Are the 1400# bars still OK or should I switch out for the 1000# bars?
Thanks ahead of time.
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Spaggs View Post
We purchased a ProPride 3P awhile back and talked to the company Rep. who advised us that with our future 27’ FC, we would need the 1400# weight distributing spring bars. After purchasing the hitch, we changed our minds and ordered a 28’.

Are the 1400# bars still OK or should I switch out for the 1000# bars?

Thanks ahead of time.
Well, I talked to Sean when I ordered mine last fall. He naturally recommends 1400# bars...for whatever reason. I explained that I believed that was too much for an AS front end and gave him all my weight numbers. He came back with the answer that 1000 was fine, and would give me more spring bar flexibility, which is a good thing. I have a 2007 30' Classic. The PP site has a graph showing selection ranges. There is quite a bit of overlap between ratings.

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Old 01-08-2022, 10:59 AM   #3
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Hi

It depends a bit on what your TV is and just how "close to the edge" you are on maxing out each axle. If you have some payload ( axle ) to spare, the 1,000 pound bars are the better bet. This is true of the bars on a *lot* of hitches.

Yet another reason not to go with a lash up that is right at max.

Bob
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaggs View Post
We purchased a ProPride 3P awhile back and talked to the company Rep. who advised us that with our future 27’ FC, we would need the 1400# weight distributing spring bars. After purchasing the hitch, we changed our minds and ordered a 28’.
Are the 1400# bars still OK or should I switch out for the 1000# bars?
Thanks ahead of time.
Congratulations!

The owner's manual for your trailer has a load specification chart on page 4.4.

https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...al-Rev03-1.pdf

Based on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) for a 28' trailer, of 7,600 lbs, the optimum range of tongue weight at maximum load should be between 760 lbs and 1,140 lbs.

If I were choosing for this load range I would get the 1,000 lbs bars.

ps:
If you decide to keep the 1400 lb bars, it will be fine with the PP hitch since you can tension the bars as needed for proper weight transfer. If you are towing with a vehicle with a stiff suspension it will be necessary to take care to not use too much tension that would cause damage to the trailer.
It's important to know what your tow vehicle owners manual instructions are too!
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Old 01-08-2022, 08:31 PM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestions.
My tow vehicle is a 2 wheel drive Ford Excursion with F-350 springs, Airlift Suspension, front/rear Hellwig sway bars and all polyurethane bushings everywhere. It’s pretty stiff. So it sounds like I should trade my 1400# bars for the 1000 # bars.
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:00 PM   #6
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I forgot: payload is 1950 lbs.
Thanks.
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:00 PM   #7
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All very interesting to me. I have a 2007 FB Safari and a tech at a NJ center told me he would run 800 lb bars...I had 1000 and was getting popped rivets. Since doing the 800 no popped rivets although I will admit my F250 has some butt sag. Now with a 20 year old hitch and needing replacement I am wondering which direction to go since I no longer see 800 lb. Reese dual cam bars available?
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:17 PM   #8
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All very interesting to me. I have a 2007 FB Safari and a tech at a NJ center told me he would run 800 lb bars...I had 1000 and was getting popped rivets. Since doing the 800 no popped rivets although I will admit my F250 has some butt sag. Now with a 20 year old hitch and needing replacement I am wondering which direction to go since I no longer see 800 lb. Reese dual cam bars available?
IMO, with 27 safari, nothing wrong with 800# bars. I'm right on the 800/1000 envelope with a 2007 classic 30.

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Old 01-09-2022, 07:30 AM   #9
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Not sure what the relationship is between the ratings for Pro Pride and Reese bars is. I run the 800 lb bars on my Reese with my 25' that puts 800 lbs load on the truck. A 2500 Dodge. I started with 1000 and went down. I ran the 1000 on the 32' for the little bit I have towed it. Never weighed it. I hope you can still get the 800 Reese bars. I like some flex in the hitch up. And I have learned that I can transfer too much weight back to the front on my Dodge if I hitch it too tight.
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Old 01-09-2022, 08:51 AM   #10
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Hi

Backing up a bit. One of the wonders of an AS is that the tongue weight can be "a bit high" as delivered. Once loaded for travel (and still under the axle weight limits) this typically goes up more than a bit. Guessing what the trailer will be at based on things like "should be about 10%" is not going to work in this case. You need the real numbers from a scale of some sort. A CAT scale run is one way (and my favorite), there are others.

Even a 25' AS *can* have a tongue weight around 1,000 pounds. There are many threads here from owners who have measured these sort of numbers on their (properly loaded / empty) trailers. Anything above 25' should be looked at as if it will be at or above 1,000 pounds until real world measurements on that individual trailer prove otherwise.

Since TV payload is a "summary" number, when you get close, you need to look at the "real" numbers. There is a load limit on the front axle and a load limit on the rear axle. Those are the things you can't go over and still be "safe".

The compelling reason for a WD hitch is to transfer weight from the rear to the front. If you have >= 1,000 pounds of trailer tongue weight and a TV payload < 2,000 pounds, this can get exciting. That yellow payload sticker does not include passenger(s) and driver weight .... Things like your shank and hitch also add weight ....

If you are at the point that putting that last 100 pounds on the front axle is a really big deal, you might well need "bigger" bars. To me, going over to the CAT scale at the start of every trip (which you would have to do) and adjusting each time seems like a massive pain. You can get a lot of money for a used TV these days ....

Bob
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Old 01-09-2022, 10:56 AM   #11
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I tow a 28ftrbq with a Silverado 1500. My truck has the max tow package and a payload of 2040. My tongue weight is 1160lbs, so I called the hitch manufacturer. They recommended that I use the 1500 pound bars. I did change out the receiver on the truck for a heavier duty version. I have a pair of 1000lb bars, but I like the feel on the road of the heavier bars.
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaggs View Post
We purchased a ProPride 3P awhile back and talked to the company Rep. who advised us that with our future 27’ FC, we would need the 1400# weight distributing spring bars. After purchasing the hitch, we changed our minds and ordered a 28’.
Are the 1400# bars still OK or should I switch out for the 1000# bars?
Thanks ahead of time.

Different variables come into play: tongue weight, max TV payload capacity (and suspension), effective TV payload, and leveling of the trailer, the TV and the rig.

When the TV manufacturer states that the front of the TV should be within 1/2" of original height (or 50% of displacement) this suggests you need to crank WD till you get that result, no matter the load in your truck bed (within the manufacturer's max payload limits) or the load on the tongue.

But it's important to remember that it's your trailer frame that is being used to raise the back end of your TV, through the WD bars, no matter the consequences to the frame and shell.

So you will be able to transfer more weight to the TV with 1400# bars if you crank up WD, but an equivalent amount of pressure is being placed on your frame.

There is a limit to what an AS frame can handle in terms of pressure before damage is done, as this thread describes (it doesn't just apply to Equalizer hitches). From experience, when in doubt I would go for more flexible (as in 1000#) rather than stiffer bars:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...-225389-9.html
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Old 01-09-2022, 11:19 AM   #13
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One other thing to consider is dips in the road. If you have ever been driving and hit a dip in which the tow vehicle dips up and down, the forces applied will cause the trailer nose to dip which increases the forces being applied to the lift bars. As noted by others if you don't positively know the weight of the trailer, too light a bar may not be able to support the weight being applied as the nose pitches down. There have been cases of bars cracking or snapping.

I've hit some pretty bad dips (one for sure on I-94 in Indiana) that would raise you out of the drivers seat if you aren't belted in. With my hitch weight on my 30' slide out at over 1260 lbs, I'm happy to have the reserve in 1,400 lb bars to resist the downward forces applied by dips in the pavement.

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Old 01-09-2022, 12:07 PM   #14
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This is an interesting thread and has certainly got me thinking. I have been towing our 25FB with an F150 for quite some time with an equalizer hitch. I have an F250 arriving soon and a 3P hitch waiting to install once I get my new TV. Like others I took Propride recommendation and got the 1400lb bars. I am now thinking about changing to the 1000lb bars, however, if I was going to tow with 1/2 ton TV I would stick with the 1400lb bars. Reason is squat and bounce is going to be higher on a 1/2 ton than on a 3/4 ton or larger.
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Different variables come into play: tongue weight, max TV payload capacity (and suspension), effective TV payload, and leveling of the trailer, the TV and the rig.

When the TV manufacturer states that the front of the TV should be within 1/2" of original height (or 50% of displacement) this suggests you need to crank WD till you get that result, no matter the load in your truck bed (within the manufacturer's max payload limits) or the load on the tongue.

But it's important to remember that it's your trailer frame that is being used to raise the back end of your TV, through the WD bars, no matter the consequences to the frame and shell.

So you will be able to transfer more weight to the TV with 1400# bars if you crank up WD, but an equivalent amount of pressure is being placed on your frame.

There is a limit to what an AS frame can handle in terms of pressure before damage is done, as this thread describes (it doesn't just apply to Equalizer hitches). From experience, when in doubt I would go for more flexible (as in 1000#) rather than stiffer bars:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...-225389-9.html
This is absolutely 100% correct. After the issues of front wall damage resurfaced, I decided to take a deep math dive into all of this
"which spring bar rating is correct" and "how much WD to apply".

Dealers and hitch manufacturers aren't very good at explaining and seem to always recommend too high a rating (by math) just for expediency and/or "this is what I have in stock to cover most of my trailer inventory, so it's good for you".

I can go into trying to explain and give the math if some want, but I always get lambasted by those who don't want. It gets tiresome.
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Old 01-10-2022, 06:43 AM   #16
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This is absolutely 100% correct. After the issues of front wall damage resurfaced, I decided to take a deep math dive into all of this
"which spring bar rating is correct" and "how much WD to apply".

Dealers and hitch manufacturers aren't very good at explaining and seem to always recommend too high a rating (by math) just for expediency and/or "this is what I have in stock to cover most of my trailer inventory, so it's good for you".

I can go into trying to explain and give the math if some want, but I always get lambasted by those who don't want. It gets tiresome.
Ok, go ahead and give me the math. If I can work a math problem and get an exact “ok you need xxxx# bars,” then I’m in.
Thanks.
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Old 01-10-2022, 07:07 AM   #17
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My GT 25' came with a Propride with the 1400 pound bars. The guy had set it up to tow the trailer with a Gladiator and I have not touched the adjustments since. It tows fine and does porpoise a bit on bumpy highways, but nothing really objectionable. I keep saying I'm going to pull the whole thing off and reinstall it myself because I have no idea if the original owner knew what he was doing. I'll probably do this in the next few weeks. The original owner also gave me a 2-1/2 stinger which he accidentally ordered when he first got the trailer and it did not fit on his jeep but will fit my RAM 2500.

The specified tongue weight on the GT 30' we've ordered is a bit higher than the 25' so I'll stick with the 1400 pound bars. I don't put nearly as many miles on my trailer as many do and rarely over rough roads. We may tow more when we retire in a year or two, so I have time to set it up. I'm actually going to do some towing off a standard ball just to see how the truck handles that. Previously, I've towed with lesser TVs and standard WD hitches. I've never gone to the scales since we usually travel light with empty tanks and only 3 people. They are not conveniently located near me so that's always been a bit of an obstacle .
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:08 AM   #18
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The *only* way to know what's going on with your WD setup is to run past a CAT scale. There is no alternative. Eyeballing this or that distance is simply a starting point. You must go do the measurements to get things "right" if you are likely to be close on the numbers. Indeed if you have an 8,000 pound payload TV with 400 pounds of stuff in it .... don't bother. For the typical case in most of these threads .... head over and spend the $15.

Bob
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:51 AM   #19
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For exact measurement, sure go to a scale and weigh it, but we all know that an Airstream has about 1000lbs +/- depending on a few factors. If you are a pack rat, and load up the front of the trailer, then yea, larger bars might be warranted.

That said, the highest bar I would use is 1000 lbs. You have an Excursion with 350 springs. That is going to be one harsh ride and my guess is you will prob see popped rivets in your future.

People tend to get all crazy about bars. They seem to think that the bars need to exceed the hitch weight. It's doesn't. You are NEVER going to distribute the entire hitch weight, and in your case, why would you? The 350 springs can handle that load and then some. Best case you might offload 40% and to me, that is pretty generous.

Unless you have a 30' or 34' slide out (or a near vintage 28' Safari slide out), there is absolutely no need for 1400lb bars. In fact I have been running 800lb bars and with the 28 footer I used 600lb bars for thousands of miles.

So as an example, say you load normally and your hitch weight is 1000lbs. If you are able to move 40% of that (prob closer to 20%), that's 400lbs you are looking to distribute, but for argument's sake, let's say 50%...that's still 500lbs of hitch weight to be distributed, wildly less than the 1400lb bars.

Jack is right, bars do snap, but again, unless you have a slide out, 800lbs bars are more than enough, and in reality, 600lbs bars would prob be just fine too because in my book, you are only gonna move between 200-400lbs max, if even that high, particularly with your TV having 1 ton springs.
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Old 01-10-2022, 09:51 AM   #20
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Ok, go ahead and give me the math. If I can work a math problem and get an exact “ok you need xxxx# bars,” then I’m in.
Thanks.
OK, this will be an exercise based on incomplete industry explanation, myth, and ultimately math.

Confusing problems and burning questions:

1) it seems that dealers and manufacturers just say, " you have 1025# TW, so you need 1400# bars because you are over 1k tongue weight." This is wrong. Spring bars are rated PER BAR. and it does seem valid that you want to have approximately 50% of SPRING BAR END FORCE (not TW) as equal to COMBINED spring capacity. ie., If it takes 1000# of combined spring bar end force to return your TV mfr. recommended weight back to the front axle then you are at 50% of the springs' rated "1000#" bar capacity...500# on each 1k bar). That is an appropriate selection. The excess capacity is to ensure that when going over dips, etc, that you have spring capacity reserve for that.

2) The amount of WD applied should NEVER be used to move any more weight than the required TV mfr stated return to front axle weight. If you are using WD to "level the TV" or "return 100% of removed weight, compensate for gear load in the TV....etc., you are applying too much WD. (unless your TV mfr says to).

3) We really shouldn't be talking about trailer tongue weight for our measurements and weights. We should be talking about hitch weight (or receiver load), as all of this weight transfer is based on the truck's total load at the receiver. This isn't a huge deal with a conventional hitch, but it is a bigger deal with PPP hitches.

4) Spring bear end load numbers really don't play a role in calculations of WD return or axle loads, etc., but they are important for determining which bars are appropriate and for understanding the kind of loads being placed on the A frame and transferred to the front wall of the AS (a known problematic AS design issue.)

I'll break this up into several posts, each with categorized subjects.
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