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Hit'nMiss · 04-01-2005, 02:07 AM

This is sickening. Not the fact that we are still discussing decals. But that our hard thought out posts (including 3 or 4 of mine) on the subject have been unceremoniously CENSORED and just dumped with NO Courtesy of a notice from the DUMPER. Not to mention the loss of the Graphics that many folks worked very hard to put up and all to just help out the DUMPER.

Someone says that the Forums owner Andy chose to DUMP our work. How is that known? I hope that is incorrect.
I have been under the impression that 2 or 3 of his Moderators usually are the ones so quick to Alter, Erase, or otherwise Tamper with and "Purify to management's own benefit" the thoughts of the general membership. (That is us peons or maybe I should say pizzants).

It was quite apparent that Andy did not find favor with nor apparently even appreciate the effort involved in the two most prevelent decals. I'm speaking of those ('Forum Member' & 'AIR') that had been suggested in the absense of any timely resolution to the long undone promise made after the early decal contest (poll). In fact Andy publicly stated (in one of the DUMPED posts) that when the elusive DEAL was "soon" finalized that the old winning contest artwork was to be the one for sale. And further that each year there would be a new design authorized. (for some unexplained reason...more sales I guess).

I do think that several of the members were very rude to Mr. Tim Champ who posted 9 or 10 times (some in his own self defense) as AIRSTREAM MARKETING.There were IMHO a few cheap shots thrown.
I was on record in that DUMPED thread as supporting Mr. Champ's views (and I have the screen shots to prove it). I also had stated that the whole decal thing is not that important in my opinion. What is important to me is the ability to NEVER have my honest and thought out words and ideas CENSORED if they meet the criteria that I agreed to when I joined this ASForums.
Oh I fully understand that Andy can delete anything he chooses with no explanation, and that is also stated in the joining agreement. However this tossing the baby out with the bath water and editing with an axe instead of a scalpel is becoming a habit unfortunately.

Maybe Andy or whomever DUMPED the thread was embarrassed that a general member would dare argue with a Brass Hat from the Factory. Maybe the Factory gave Andy an ultimatum. Maybe what we the membership think is just considered trivial drivel by the "Inner Circle". Maybe the "Inner Circle" just doesn't care or doesn't realize that many of us are able to see that something a little Russian is taking place here. All too often IMHO.

The genius of the Forums is not the Owner. Not the Moderators, Not the Community nor the Comraderie. Not the Smilies nor the Links nor the interface.Not even the Membership. The real jewel is the ARCHIVE and the Search Engine, the body of posts and threads and the Library of information that they have become.
What has happened to the thread in question and many others in the past is no less than BookBurning. It is an insult to any of us who try to follow the agreed upon rules and attempt to take this community seriously and give to it our time and our attention and yes even our affection. My advice which I suspect is not wanted nor will it be appreciated is to take care of the Library and the Search Engine and give the peons as much respect for a change as you demand (by the rules) that they must give to you the Inner Circle.

A very disappointed and worried about the Forums' direction,

Flicka

Silvertwinkie · 04-01-2005, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HitnMiss

I have been under the impression that 2 or 3 of his Moderators usually are the ones so quick to Alter, Erase, or otherwise Tamper with and "Purify to management's own benefit" the thoughts of the general membership. (That is us peons or maybe I should say pizzants).

Not sure I agree with this statement....I've seen nearly all of them take action at one time or another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HitnMiss

Maybe Andy or whomever DUMPED the thread was embarrassed that a general member would dare argue with a Brass Hat from the Factory. Maybe the Factory gave Andy an ultimatum.

I doubt very seriously that either of these are true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HitnMiss

The genius of the Forums is not the Owner. Not the Moderators, Not the Community nor the Comraderie. Not the Smilies nor the Links nor the interface.Not even the Membership. The real jewel is the ARCHIVE and the Search Engine

Though true, the archives are important, it's the membership that drives these archives. Without members to post, there are no archives. How do you want to be remembered when looked at in the archves?

sfixx · 04-01-2005, 06:29 AM

I believe that the original decal designs are all here:

http://www.airforums.com/photo...008&perpage=36

Wasn't it the blue globe that was deemed the winner way back when?

Steve

sovereignrwe · 04-01-2005, 06:42 AM

To pose a slightly different suggestion, maybe the corporate lawyers, or the Airstream/Thor executives, did not want Tim's comments in a public domain and that was the reason for the thread to be pulled.

I would have expressed some concerns if Tim were working for me.

I really had higher hopes for my 250th post. Very somber, rather than joyous, topic to post on.

balrgn · 04-01-2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfixx

I believe that the original decal designs are all here:

http://www.airforums.com/photo...008&perpage=36

Wasn't it the blue globe that was deemed the winner way back when?

Steve

Looks like most of them, nice detective work!

sfixx · 04-01-2005, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balrgn

Looks like most of them...

Yes, but I didn't get to vote before and the popular vote now seems to be for an "AIR" sticker of some sort. It appears that a re-vote is out of the question...perhaps because Andy is dealing with a specific logo in mind and it's too late to change.

My plan is to put an "AIR" sticker on my Argosy with my forum name in a similar oval under it.

Steve

dscluchfc · 04-01-2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfixx

Yes, but I didn't get to vote before and the popular vote now seems to be for an "AIR" sticker of some sort. It appears that a re-vote is out of the question...perhaps because Andy is dealing with a specific logo in mind and it's too late to change.

My plan is to put an "AIR" sticker on my Argosy with my forum name in a similar oval under it.

Steve

As I have stated before, if we all go do our own thing, then Marketing can hunt down 7000+ of us, one by one, on the highways and in the campgrounds of the USA and around the world. It will give them something to do.

Silvertwinkie · 04-01-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignrwe

To pose a slightly different suggestion, maybe the corporate lawyers, or the Airstream/Thor executives, did not want Tim's comments in a public domain and that was the reason for the thread to be pulled.

Possible, but really, if they wanted his posts gone, they could have very easily had him pull them himself.

The thread was taking a bad turn and it was dealt with the way the mgmt of this site felt appropriate. Clearly Bretts earlier post indicates this.......

ALANSD · 04-01-2005, 09:07 AM

The moderators here, to state this once again...are volunteers who try to keep the positive learning and sharing environment flowing as best we can. Its funny how offended some can get when their posts are messed with.. almost like its a personal attack on their credibility, which it is certainly not..
Considering the amount of posting and the large number of members I think we do a pretty good job of it.
We are not "quick" to edit and/or delete anything unless it just seems to us that it needs to be done...and we discuss this amongst ourselves before it is done in most cases.
Lastly- I think maintaining a good working relationship with Airstream can be a benefit to all of us here.

Rog0525 · 04-01-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HitnMiss

Someone says that the Forums owner Andy chose to DUMP our work. How is that known?

"DUMP" is pretty harsh, but here's the answer to your question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organic Hosting

Hey, I am going to close this thread and move it, it is not very productive for our community...

Over59 · 04-01-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfixx

you will see Airstreams traveling with the star-studded Hollywood crowd, on tour with high-profile rock bands
Quote is from AS website news page.

Steve

I just may have to get SOB. Neighborhood is going down hill fast.

Over59 · 04-01-2005, 10:52 AM

I tried edit my prior post but it looks like I am on the watch list.

Keep your Decals. I wouldn't take one if you were giving them away.

Don't start something you cann't finish.

thenewkid64 · 04-01-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Over59

I tried edit my prior post but it looks like I am on the watch list.

It is not just you. It is everyone for now. There is a 15 minute time limit to edit your post. Once that time has elapsed you will need to contact a moderator to have the post edited or removed. This does allow time for you to go back and correct spelling or add more info. It does not allow members to wholesale delete a post or large parts of a post and make the thread disjointed.

rluhr · 04-01-2005, 12:40 PM

BRAVO! A sensible policy on the part of the moderators. People were abusing the "Edit" feature far too often.

Big Dee · 04-01-2005, 02:04 PM

Disappointing again. This place seems to be going downhill lately. So now us peons ability to edit our own posts has been taken away? We now have to have permission to edit our own posts? Ridiculous. I am on much bigger forums then this place and always had the ability to edit my own posts. I never had a problem with deletions from posts. If the poster reconsidered what was said, it was probably for the best. Soon we will need permission to post at all. A lot of actions around here lately has left a bad taste in my mouth. I sure that the mgmnt of this forum could care less what we think. That's how it feels, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenewkid64

It is not just you. It is everyone for now. There is a 15 minute time limit to edit your post. Once that time has elapsed you will need to contact a moderator to have the post edited or removed. This does allow time for you to go back and correct spelling or add more info. It does not allow members to wholesale delete a post or large parts of a post and make the thread disjointed.

Safari Tim · 04-01-2005, 02:17 PM

I'd wish they would concentrate on fixing the many problems with the forum software that have been talked about for months instead of applying their resources posing new restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dee

Disappointing again. This place seems to be going downhill lately. So now us peons ability to edit our own posts has been taken away? We now have to have permission to edit our own posts? Ridiculous. I am on much bigger forums then this place and always had the ability to edit my own posts. I never had a problem with deletions from posts. If the poster reconsidered what was said, it was probably for the best. Soon we will need permission to post at all. A lot of actions around here lately has left a bad taste in my mouth. I sure that the mgmnt of this forum could care less what we think. That's how it feels, anyway.

markdoane · 04-01-2005, 02:42 PM

Yeah, me too! I'm really p*ssed! I want a refund on my Premium Membership fees, forum subscription charges, and monthly bandwidth dues. And I want my initiation fee back, and a refund for my blue blazer. . . .

john hd · 04-01-2005, 04:53 PM

hey all,

lets all take some time to cool off!

yes posts and threads get edited here, but please remember that this forum is unlike many others because it is rather lightly moderated.

there are a number of forums i have posted on or visited that do not allow a single post to go up before it is reviewed by a moderator. not one!

we all certainly don't want that to happen, it would cut way down on the one member helping another out with instant response times.

please be patient while the forum and airstream relationship is worked out.

john

balrgn · 04-01-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hd

hey all,

lets all take some time to cool off!

yes posts and threads get edited here, but please remember that this forum is unlike many others because it is rather lightly moderated.

there are a number of forums i have posted on or visited that do not allow a single post to go up before it is reviewed by a moderator. not one!

we all certainly don't want that to happen, it would cut way down on the one member helping another out with instant response times.

please be patient while the forum and airstream relationship is worked out.

john

Johns right! The only ones getting outa hand is........ Well..
Time to mellow out, peace, love and all that, these guys are volunteers

till · 04-01-2005, 05:40 PM

On the editing side of things....
The first forum I joined (way back in the dark days before I re-discovered Airstreams) had and still does have a 30 min time limit to edit posts. So what is the big deal??? If you can't get it straight the first time, try try again.

Let's all remember we are here to have fun. No one made you log on and read this board. You came here on your own and your an adult. Dang I this kind of stuff is why I quit going to the museum that I volunteered at.

Sorry but I have wanted to get this off my chest for a long time. Sorry if I pee'd off anyone.

On the Decal, I will just wait it out. "Good things come to those who wait" is one of the sayings I live by.