Choice of a Towing Truck

[rostam]

GM, Ford, Ram, Toyota, and Nissan all make very good trucks, and properly configured, they should all be able to pull your trailer. You have to pick one based on your requirements. My primary requirements are reliability, resale value, and safety (I don't care so much about having the latest technology in my vehicles), hence, if I were buying a truck, it would be Tundra (Silverado/Sierra 1500 with 6.2 V8, 8 speed auto, and max payload package would be my second choice). My suggestion is to test drive them all -- That may eliminate some of them from consideration. Good luck!

[switz]

Started our Airstream experience with my existing 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI 3.0L V6 turbo-diesel and a brand new 2013 25FB International Serenity coupled by a Hensley Arrow weight distribution hitch. The literature tongue weight of 833 pounds was 1,150 pounds on the dealer lot after full propane tanks, full fresh water tank, the Hensley Arrow hitch head and a brief case.

Since the California posted 55 mph for towing worked well, I continued at that speed up the mountain grade on I-10 out of Palm Springs in 4th gear and 3,100 rpm. After getting the rig to the Phoenix area, we loaded the trailer with "everything" and the wife and I drove to the CAT scales (found at truck stops). The trailer scaled 6,900 pounds with 1,175 pounds of tongue weight. The drive train was not as happy with the loaded trailer.

A 2012 Ram 2500HD 4x4 short bed crew cab was acquired. All towing issues resolved and we could take anything we desired.

The 25FB was traded in for a 2014 31' Classic with a ProPride hitch (second generation Hensley design). Our initial conversion to four Lifeline 6Vdc 300 amp-hour batteries that help create a 1,375 pound tongue weight was improved by the use of a single 600 amp hour lithium battery and the tongue weigh dropped to 1,175 pounds. (the truck's 1,200 pound hitch was cut off and replaced with one rated 2,550 pounds of tonque weight and a 17,000 pound trailer. The rig fully loaded scales 19,200 pounds and all the numbers are known for each tire load so all is well.

We added a 2015 23D International Serenity and re-used the Hensley Arrow hitch and the Mercedes. At 962 pounds of tongue weight and a total weight of 6,068 pounds, this is a great match for the Mercedes. We drive 55 mph with this rig and there is enough engine brake action in second gear at 35 mph going down mountain that neither the trailer nor the Mercedes brakes are applied.

While the truck lets us take whatever comes to mind, the Mercedes is weight constrained to one 2,000 watt generator (propane converted Honda 2000) that can run the single air conditioner due to the hybrid Magnum MSH-3012 converter that can get battery power to help start the A/C as it cycles when off grid. We have a very light Solaire grill that gets propane from the trailer (as does the generator), a Vivair 12Vdc air compressor, two ZipDee chairs with matching waning fabric, and some basic tools in the back of the car.

One has to do lots of home work to enter the Airstream experience with the fewest possible mistakes. Logically one would spends lots of time at a large dealership where there is a comprehensive inventory to allow for good familiarization of the various floor plans. Reading the specific model treads on this forum will give insight to other's experiences with a given model. Then determine real world tongue weights and actual loaded for camping weights and decide if flat lands are your only driving possibilities or are the mountains in the future as well.

Knowing some real tongue weight numbers, the weights of the driver and all passengers and all the stuff to be carried in the tow vehicle will give great guidance on initially weeding out possible tow vehicle selections with inadequate payload capability and or combined weight capability (loaded truck plus loaded trailer).

Doing the home work is all part of the fun!

[OSCS]

Ford. All other brands won't tow an AS.

Stuart

Originally Posted by jrotino

Hello-
I am new to the Forum, so would like to get some general advice.

Dreaming about Airstreams for the past 10 years, and the time to buy is here.

Planning on a Flying Cloud M25.

Potential truck choices at Toyota Tundra, Ford F-150, or Chevy Silverado.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Joe

[AirstreamCSH]

People tell you to read the sub forums and that's true.
However, you need to know what to look for.
The TV has two ratings that matter: towing capacity and payload capacity.
Odds are great whatever you buy will exceed the towing (pulling) capacity.
Odds are also great that you will not have enough payload (gravity resisting) capacity
The payload is where you get into trouble.

[QC TORPEDO]

Ford, Chevy, GMC or Dodge in 3/4 ton diesel. go 4x4 if you will travel in snow or off-road. Despite what half-ton dealers will say, the tow vehicle weight to trailer weight must be considered. Diesels come with electric "jake brakes" either standard or as an option. The "tow-haul" transmissions available make towing safer. That said, I am in Arizona and go from 1400' to 7500' in elevation (and back) often. Less truck would make me a rolling road block and that is not a good feeling. Towing with a vehicle whose ability is at the margin may not be a good choice.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH

People tell you to read the sub forums and that's true.
However, you need to know what to look for.
The TV has two ratings that matter: towing capacity and payload capacity.
Odds are great whatever you buy will exceed the towing (pulling) capacity.
Odds are also great that you will not have enough payload (gravity resisting) capacity
The payload is where you get into trouble.

Bingo. And make sure you are looking at the correct capacities. A truck advertised with x payload will be single cab. The crew cabs most actually buy will have less. And that y tow rating will be for a specific gearing. Just as an example, my old 2012 f150 had 7,700 lb tow limit with its 3.55 gears. Had I purchase 3.73 gears the limit would have been around 9,000 or so. Or more.

Btw, just buy a gas F250 and call it a day. I just did 2 weeks ago!

[rostam]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Bingo. And make sure you are looking at the correct capacities. A truck advertised with x payload will be single cab. The crew cabs most actually buy will have less. And that y tow rating will be for a specific gearing. Just as an example, my old 2012 f150 had 7,700 lb tow limit with its 3.55 gears. Had I purchase 3.73 gears the limit would have been around 9,000 or so. Or more.

Btw, just buy a gas F250 and call it a day. I just did 2 weeks ago!

Congrats! Thats a very nice truck. Just curious, how much payload did you get with that?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by jrotino

Hello-
I am new to the Forum, so would like to get some general advice.

Dreaming about Airstreams for the past 10 years, and the time to buy is here.

Planning on a Flying Cloud M25.

Potential truck choices at Toyota Tundra, Ford F-150, or Chevy Silverado.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Joe

A modern half-ton truck offers about 400 ft lbs of torque, disc brakes all around, and plenty of axle load capacity for a 25' Airstream and reasonable load. An excellent match. We have had several and traveled the country extensively with ours for years. The reason everyone favors their own brand is because they all are good.

Fully one-third of a successful towing combination is a quality, properly set up weight distribution hitch. We've had several of them and found the Hensley/ProPride design is ideal for this size towing combination.

What's missing in your question is how many people and pets will travel with you, what you plan to carry in the truck's bed, and how you will use the pickup when not towing. Half and three-quarter ton pickups have their load limits, long wheelbase pickups can be miserable daily driving around town.

A favorite, most economical to purchase and operate truck for us was a 2012 Ram 1500 Regular Cab 5.7 Hemi, 120" wheelbase, full coil spring suspension. No back seat, a truck for two, but had a large bed for hauling, nice soft ride, and real easy to drive around town. New MSRP of $32K, purchased for $24K. After 50K miles and 4 years given $20K trade-in allowance. Plenty of power and braking, decent gas mileage, and perfect stability towing our FC 25 with a Hensley/ProPride hitch.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Any truck you buy will have a sticker on it letting you know the payload on that specific truck. If you are looking at inventory on a dealer lot, it is well worth your time to check those stickers. You will be a bit surprised when you compare the. sticker number to the one you just read on the web ....(the sticker is lower because of the weight of the options on the truck. The web site never figures that stuff in ...).

Next thing to consider is that when some guy named Bob in PA chimes in about his wonderful truck, he's driving at an altitude that give you roughly 20% more power (and braking and cooling) than some other poor soul who is chugging around at 12,000 feet in New Mexico or Colorado. Where you go *does* make a difference. Yes super duper turbo / super chargers will impact the 20%. One never quite knows by how much. It's a good bet that the manufacturer derates the payload by a bit for altitude.

You *can* get a gas engine that will go into engine braking mode. It's a bit of a surprise the first time it happens (what just broke ... ). You can also get gas engines with some fairly crazy torque numbers. With a diesel the engine brake stuff likely will work a bit better and the crazy torque numbers apply over a much wider range of RPM's. Does that justify the cost and weight of a diesel? Only you and your use profile can answer that question.

Do you intend to bring a 900 lb off road "toys" in the bed of the truck along with a full load of passengers and other gear? If so a "150 / 1500" category truck is likely not going to do the job. With all of the cool options like 4x4, diesel, long bed, and crew cab, a 250 / 2500 category may be maxed out. What you intend to bring along matters a lot.

It's *much* cheaper to work this out *before* you buy the truck. Try it and see / trade it in is not the best way to go. It's also easy to go a bit nuts and be looking at a crazy expensive truck. That's when it's time to start a bit of "let's not take this *and* this *and* that" sort of thinking.

Bob

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

~~
Next thing to consider is that when some guy named Bob in PA chimes in about his wonderful truck, he's driving at an altitude that give you roughly 20% more power (and braking and cooling) than some other poor soul who is chugging around at 12,000 feet in New Mexico or Colorado. Where you go *does* make a difference. Yes super duper turbo / super chargers will impact the 20%. One never quite knows by how much. It's a good bet that the manufacturer derates the payload by a bit for altitude.

~~

It's amusing how many diesel supporters will dismiss modern turbo DI gasoline engines as suspect because they rely on turbochargers to make big power at relatively low RPM and get a nice WIDE, FLAT torque curve and then tell you that a diesel is essential.

Let me tell you, a non-turbocharged diesel in a passenger vehicle or light truck is a DOG. The fantastic modern diesels in pickups, SUVs and cars are fantastic because they have "super duper turbo chargers" in them, not simply because they're diesels.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by dkottum

A modern half-ton truck offers about 400 ft lbs of torque, disc brakes all around, and plenty of axle load capacity for a 25' Airstream and reasonable load. An excellent match. We have had several and traveled the country extensively with ours for years. The reason everyone favors their own brand is because they all are good.

Fully one-third of a successful towing combination is a quality, properly set up weight distribution hitch. We've had several of them and found the Hensley/ProPride design is ideal for this size towing combination.

What's missing in your question is how many people and pets will travel with you, what you plan to carry in the truck's bed, and how you will use the pickup when not towing. Half and three-quarter ton pickups have their load limits, long wheelbase pickups can be miserable daily driving around town.

A favorite, most economical to purchase and operate truck for us was a 2012 Ram 1500 Regular Cab 5.7 Hemi, 120" wheelbase, full coil spring suspension. No back seat, a truck for two, but had a large bed for hauling, nice soft ride, and real easy to drive around town. New MSRP of $32K, purchased for $24K. After 50K miles and 4 years given $20K trade-in allowance. Plenty of power and braking, decent gas mileage, and perfect stability towing our FC 25 with a Hensley/ProPride hitch.

How many persons is key, OP. Second only to the solo use of the vehicle.

A Ford Expedition -- with fully independent suspension -- is superior in every respect to a pickup truck.

Increasing accident risk to accommodate a few miles of annual towing doesn't ever make sense.

To go camping requires some clothing past what you're wearing that day, and some food. That's it.

This is the point of having a self-contained RV.

What you use to tow it needs to be superior in solo duties.

[jrotino]

Originally Posted by UnklJoe

The below applies to my experience towing a Flying Cloud 28 (rear bedroom). Your 25 foot travel trailer (TT) should be much easier with most 1/2- or 3/4-ton pickups with the proper towing ratings/capacities.

We purchased a 28FC last November, and bought a 2013 Toyota Tundra Platinum to tow it. GREAT pick-up, loved everything about it--comfortable, large but not TOO large, gasoline (I didn't want a diesel at the time), great reviews all over the World Wide Web, and we and our dogs really liked the rear window which goes up and down--entirely. A friend who had purchased a FC 27 FB had purchased a Toyota Tundra and was very happy, so we thought it would be a good purchase. And, it was a Toyota, built in the USA, with less than 21,000 miles on it in immaculate condition. I added a trailer brake controller as it didn't come with one even though it had the "towing package."

We live in Colorado, and we love traveling in the West. One trip on US-50 across Colorado made me wish I had more power going up-hill and more brakes going downhill. The Tundra was PERFECT on most flat roads/highways, and even on rolling hills or mountain roads where the terrain or speed limit was less than 50 mph or we got stuck behind a slow-moving truck or travel trailer. Too much upshifting/downshifting trying to maintain 50 mph (70 MPH on I-17 North out of Phoenix was NO problem even over some grades that had tractor-trailers and other RVs slowing down!). Several downhill grades on two-lane roads had me using the trailer brakes a lot (not a problem) but the truck brakes more than I would have liked (and once I felt a little fading which raised the pucker factor a little as we hadn't reached the bottom of the grade).

I believe my weight distribution hitch was ideally adjusted for the Tundra (per CAT scale weight tickets), and the trailer brakes and controller were adjusted properly. The Tundra is technically a 1/2-ton pick-up (some call it a 5/8-ton!), and I was towing 7,000 lbs (truck payload, plus trailer) and I was just at the limit of the capability of the truck. And more-so on the brakes--in my opinion--and it's important to stress that: it was my opinion. If we were towing primarily East of the Rockies, it would have been a great vehicle and we probably wouldn't have considered changing tow vehicles.

It was with heavy heart and after much analysis I surrendered my Tundra and purchased a Ram 3500 Megacab (we need the extra room in the cab for our dogs (three standard poodles)). I drove an F-150 Eco-Boost--and nearly bought it, but was worried about the braking capability. It had LOTS of torque, and the promised fuel mileage was really enticing, too. But, the rear seat wasn't configured to maximize the area for the dogs (the rear seat bottom folds UP instead of the back folding down), and I had that nagging worry about braking.

I opted for the Ram because of: 1) the diesel engine for mountain towing, particularly uphill towing; 2) the diesel engine for mountain towing, particularly for downhill towing (engine brake); 3) the brakes (monster brakes); and, 4) the Megacab (nothing else we considered had the cab room the Ram had--it's bigger than the Toyota). And, the truck rides amazingly nice for a 1-ton--the wife LIKES the ride of the truck even when we're not towing the trailer.

We haven't done but a little towing with the 3500 on local streets/roads and on the local Interstate (adjusting the weight distribution hitch) and to get a feel for how the vehicle handles the trailer. All of the AirForum threads I read where people had gone from gas to diesel said the same things: "I'll never go back (to gas)," and, "I don't even notice the trailer." And, my initial impressions are the same: I hardly notice the trailer behind me (could be dangerous...), and I don't think I would go back to a gas-engined tow vehicle for a trailer this size (28 ft.). Again, I hardly notice the trailer behind me, when I'm accelerating, or when I'm braking. And, I've yet to "tax" the engine brake at all--but it does offer noticeable braking assistance even on relatively flat roads. Fuel mileage hasn't been great on these short tows, but then it wasn't great with the Tundra, either. But, as has been said in this thread, that's to be expected when towing.

Again, I think the 25 footer you are purchasing would be fine with most 1/2-ton pick-ups with heavy duty tow packages and a good weight distribution hitch. I would urge you to consider where you will be towing primarily, and what your experience is towing under those conditions. We bought the 28 foot trailer because it was a price/condition we just couldn't pass up; in hindsight, a 25 might be a better size for us, but with three large dogs, we need the "sleeping space" for them in the trailer.

If we had a 25 ft. travel trailer (TT), I would have definitely thought long and hard about the F-150 EcoBoost, and maybe even removed the rear seat for the room we wanted. It has great torque and mileage. And, it's a gasoline engine. And they get GREAT reviews here on AirForums and elsewhere on the Web.

If you go to the Towing sub-forums on AirForums, you will see some VERY heated and strong discussions/opinions about tow vehicles and weight distribution hitches. I'd had no experience with weight distribution hitches before--and I've towed a LOT of horse- and utility trailers in my life, and wouldn't do it again without a weight distribution hitch. We have an Equal-i-zer Hitch (with the "bracket jackets" to reduce hitch noises) and are very happy with it. And, the prices of weight distribution hitches can vary GREATLY.

Hope this helps!

Thanks so much. Great information!!! JR

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by rostam

Congrats! Thats a very nice truck. Just curious, how much payload did you get with that?

I have an xlt 6.2 crew cab with standard bed and 4x4. A few other options but not a lot. Payload sticker says 3164 lbs. Works for me!

[Viks]

I am finally having to decide whether to sell my wonderful 2010 Touareg back to VW. The price they are offering is very good - yet it has been a wonderful tow vehicle! But it seems they don’t yet have an emissions fix approved for this generation and I’m thinking it might be time to sell it back. Anyone else out there faced with this dilemma? And any recommendations for tow-capable SUV replacement?

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by Viks

I am finally having to decide whether to sell my wonderful 2010 Touareg back to VW. The price they are offering is very good - yet it has been a wonderful tow vehicle! But it seems they don’t yet have an emissions fix approved for this generation and I’m thinking it might be time to sell it back. Anyone else out there faced with this dilemma? And any recommendations for tow-capable SUV replacement?

My son sold his diesel back to VW and got a very reasonable price for it. He then bought a diesel BMW X5. Although he doesn't't use it to tow he really likes the vehicle. And I know there are some here on the forum that tow with a diesel X5. You might want to do a search.

FWIW!

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by jrotino

Hello-
I am new to the Forum, so would like to get some general advice.

Dreaming about Airstreams for the past 10 years, and the time to buy is here.

Planning on a Flying Cloud M25.

Potential truck choices at Toyota Tundra, Ford F-150, or Chevy Silverado.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Joe

I would think any of the 3 you listed, properly set up will handle your 25' AS.

Best regards and safe travels

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Viks

I am finally having to decide whether to sell my wonderful 2010 Touareg back to VW. The price they are offering is very good - yet it has been a wonderful tow vehicle! But it seems they don’t yet have an emissions fix approved for this generation and I’m thinking it might be time to sell it back. Anyone else out there faced with this dilemma? And any recommendations for tow-capable SUV replacement?

They don’t test emissions in Kentucky do they? Do you have the option of keeping it?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Viks

I am finally having to decide whether to sell my wonderful 2010 Touareg back to VW. The price they are offering is very good - yet it has been a wonderful tow vehicle! But it seems they don’t yet have an emissions fix approved for this generation and I’m thinking it might be time to sell it back. Anyone else out there faced with this dilemma? And any recommendations for tow-capable SUV replacement?

Hi

Depending on how the whole emissions thing works out .... your vehicle might be very hard to sell down the road. Given the way testing is done, it will continue to pass tests when checked. The gotcha is your loss of trade-in value.

Why would it loose value? Well, if the "fixed" engine performs poorly, that's one way. If people keep hearing all these stories about VW being a bunch of crooks, that would be another way. Finally diesel as "the way to go" looks like it's taking a hit. All of this is in the "who knows?" category right now.

Next layer is - how long do you keep a vehicle? For most people 5 years is pretty typical and 10 years is quite a while. You are at 8 years. If the trade is likely to happen at 9 or 10 ... just do it now. Their deal *is* probably better than what you will get in a year or two.

Lots of variables and no real answers.

Bob

[Viks]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



Depending on how the whole emissions thing works out .... your vehicle might be very hard to sell down the road. Given the way testing is done, it will continue to pass tests when checked. The gotcha is your loss of trade-in value.



Why would it loose value? Well, if the "fixed" engine performs poorly, that's one way. If people keep hearing all these stories about VW being a bunch of crooks, that would be another way. Finally diesel as "the way to go" looks like it's taking a hit. All of this is in the "who knows?" category right now.



Next layer is - how long do you keep a vehicle? For most people 5 years is pretty typical and 10 years is quite a while. You are at 8 years. If the trade is likely to happen at 9 or 10 ... just do it now. Their deal *is* probably better than what you will get in a year or two.



Lots of variables and no real answers.



Bob

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your response. Yes, I agree with all your reasons for accepting VW’s offer. It’s an offer too good to refuse! And I’m in the process. But very attached to my Touareg- a great car! Anyway. I’m a woman not accustomed to driving a truck and don’t really want to look for one but need another SUV-type vehicle that can pull my 25-Ft Flying Cloud over the mountains! Looking for a gas-powered replacement!

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Viks

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your response. Yes, I agree with all your reasons for accepting VW’s offer. It’s an offer too good to refuse! And I’m in the process. But very attached to my Touareg- a great car! Anyway. I’m a woman not accustomed to driving a truck and don’t really want to look for one but need another SUV-type vehicle that can pull my 25-Ft Flying Cloud over the mountains! Looking for a gas-powered replacement!

Check out the Ford Expedition with 3.5 liter Ecoboost. Pulls 9300lbs with 480lbs of torque. Not cheap however. But would definitely work.