That pesky grey water that bypases the holding tank

[Van]

With the current regs in parks forbidding the direct dumping of greywater onto the ground, that leaves some of us packing a external holding tank to the dump station.

I was wondering if anyone found a way around this issue, besides keeping a overflow tank handy?

With my '78 Minuet, if i am not hooked up to a site with a sewage hookup, i must keep my overflow tank hooked up to my drain pipe. All shower water goes past the grey water holding tank.

As any enterprising owner out there with this issue figured out a way around it or are we stuck packing an extra tank when dry camping?

I know it isnt an easy fix if there is one, but was just curious...

[bill benton]

I don't know how long you camp for but for a weekend 2 or 3 days my family of 5 does ok if we use the campground showers. We also limit the amount of water we use while doing dishes.

[Airstream Life]

There is a fellow in WBCCI VAC who showed me his clever design to solve this problem. He installed a small demand pump which pumps the shower water UP to a 10 gallon graywater holding tank in the bathroom closet. This tank can then be drained later. PM me if you want his name and contact info.

[eubank]

Welll, it may be forbidden to drain gray water in some areas, but the dry west -- New Mexico, anyway -- has seen the light in this matter. Park owners in this part of the country will likely cooperate with you as long as you cooperate with them: Water plants; don't water parking areas.

Lynn

[smily]

Deleted do to foot in mouth syndrome

Good luck,
Smily

[thenewkid64]

Ken,

Van's Argosy has a grey tank. The issue is that it is mounted above the floor and only the sink water is currently run into it. The shower drain exits the the trailer after the black water valve like pre 74 trailers.

I would look into the demand pump idea if the grey tank is big enough. Then you can be fully self contained, even if it means really short showers

We carried a blue belly, but it was a pain. We had a 77 with a grey tank. Sometimes it was not big enough for a lengthy stay.

[smily]

I humbly step out

I did not notice the reference to the existing grey tank.

I am not familiar with this setup.

Can anyone elaborate. Why did AS make a grey tank that did not capture all of the grey water?

Smily

[overlander64]

Greetings Smily!

Can anyone elaborate. Why did AS make a grey tank that did not capture all of the grey water?

I can't provide all of the whys of the issue with the Minuet 6.0 Metre, but it is one of the frustrating quirks of the coach. They are very low to the ground, and were built for light weight with minimal ground clearance (hitch height was lower than the rest of the Argosy line). I suspect that it wasn't practical to mount a gray water tank that would be low enough to catch the shower water under the coach such that it wouldn't become something to drag on the ground - - my coach did enough dragging to loose three termination caps its first season - - hopefully the new axle installed last fall will cure this problem.

The gray water tank in the Minuet 6.0 Metre is installed on top of the floor in the streetside closet. It is plumbed so that it collects the kitchen and bathrom sink water, but the shower water still has to be dealt with using a blue tank. The gray water tank holds approximately 8 gallons - - photo of the tank is the one that my coach's original owner removed as it wasn't particularly useful when one rarely cooked in the coach. While I won't get a great deal of use out of the tank, I do plan to have it reinstalled in the not too distant future.



Kevin

[thenewkid64]

Ken,

No problem, just wanting to add to your vast array of rather usless Airstream Triva that seems to reside in all of our heads.

[Chuck]

I'm going to attempt to retrofit a grey tank in my unit in the near future (I hope). I'll take the liberty of attaching a rendering created by one of our forum members that illustrates how a 19 gallon tank can fit in the space between the frame members. the drain pipe won't slope much, if at all, if it is going to stay concealed between the belly pan and the floor...but I think its safe to say that most of our trailers are equipped with a tounge jack that will solve that problem at drain time.

pumping to an above the floor tank seems sort of a "Rube Goldberg" approach, imo.

I don't have the skills to alter this rendering, but the difference between this plan and my trailer is that my black tank is in the same place, only above the floor. its drain pipe drops vertically from the center of the tank, and the existing "no-tank-grey drain lines" attach to this same pipe. my plan is to disconnect these existing lines, and attach the future grey tank's drain line to the black tank's drain pipe instead. Seems to me that the new tank can be supported in the same fashion as the fresh water tank. (angle-iron bolted to the bottom of the frame's cross members, supporting a plywood floor that in turn, supports the tank.)

[Silvertwinkie]

You know, I posted, then took it back, but had to repost. I'd be careful with that config you have. I know the tanks on the new rear bath units are as you say, but that tanks weight is spread across the entire rear area. I'd suggest some frame support as I am unsure that tank that far back in that config won't cause any frame seperation issues.

The grey tank looks fine as long as it's near the axle area.

Just my .02 as the pipe filled with water will add a few more lbs (not many) to an already stressed rear end if full and in transit.

[Chuck]

my black tank already sits in the same spot as is pictured...only up a little higher. it sits ON the floor. (there's a cover over it, and then the toilet and vanity/sink sit on top of the tank cover). its only 13 gallons...but seems to be plenty for a weekend. and really, this is a "weekender" trailer, anyway.

I have no plans on changing that. I just want to add a grey, like in the picture. this drawing looks very much like my trailer, as far as I can tell...I havent taken the belly pan off yet and taken exact measurements, but I have poked around under there, surveying the rivet lines, and so forth. there's a 22" wide space right behind the axle, just like is pictured. then the next 'gap' is narrower than that...just like in the picture...then the furthest aft cavity is wide. again, just like the picture. which is why this rendering really caught my eye, and got me thinking.

I took a peek at the underside of a 1974 unit at a rally, to see if I could get an idea of how they put the grey tanks in those. it looks like what I described before...the tank appears to be supported the same way the fresh water tanks are supported. the support system sort of hangs down an inch or so beneath the level of the belly pan. its held up to the frame with steel angle-iron all around, which would add support to the frame.

I don't believe frame separation was ever an issue in this size trailer...there isn't that much overhang behind the rear axle. Plus, I don't plan on driving any distance w/ full tanks....perhaps from a dry-camping rally situation to the nearest dump station...that would be it.

(btw: what are you doing at Jaque Chirac's house, anyway?? )

[Silvertwinkie]

I see...the posted drawing looked like it was much larger.

He and I are sippn’ some wine arguing with our friends (over on the off topic threads) and planning how to surrender to our enemies.

[Van]

Now, that is exactly what i was looking for Chuck. Thanks.

You hit the nail on the head, a trailer the size of the one i have is really just a weekend thing usually or perhaps a week at a time. Not really much use for a long extened vactation.

What i am looking for is just something that will contain the shower water long enough for me to haul it to a dump station. It sure beats me having to pack the 5 gal blue tank down to the dump station after every shower.

[blrpix]

Mine is a 20ft 65' Globe Trotter...I know the tank idea will work...BUT my shower is in the back, near the toilet...drains the same, bypasses the black water but comes out the same outlet. My concern is the run from the low shower drain to the new GW tank...does it need slope? I need to take measurements, but I could conceive that it could run flat, but with much slope it will lose tank capacity..correct? Thoughts?

Originally Posted by chuck

my black tank already sits in the same spot as is pictured...only up a little higher. it sits ON the floor. (there's a cover over it, and then the toilet and vanity/sink sit on top of the tank cover). its only 13 gallons...but seems to be plenty for a weekend. and really, this is a "weekender" trailer, anyway.

I have no plans on changing that. I just want to add a grey, like in the picture. this drawing looks very much like my trailer, as far as I can tell...I havent taken the belly pan off yet and taken exact measurements, but I have poked around under there, surveying the rivet lines, and so forth. there's a 22" wide space right behind the axle, just like is pictured. then the next 'gap' is narrower than that...just like in the picture...then the furthest aft cavity is wide. again, just like the picture. which is why this rendering really caught my eye, and got me thinking.

I took a peek at the underside of a 1974 unit at a rally, to see if I could get an idea of how they put the grey tanks in those. it looks like what I described before...the tank appears to be supported the same way the fresh water tanks are supported. the support system sort of hangs down an inch or so beneath the level of the belly pan. its held up to the frame with steel angle-iron all around, which would add support to the frame.

I don't believe frame separation was ever an issue in this size trailer...there isn't that much overhang behind the rear axle. Plus, I don't plan on driving any distance w/ full tanks....perhaps from a dry-camping rally situation to the nearest dump station...that would be it.

(btw: what are you doing at Jaque Chirac's house, anyway?? )

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by blrpix

Mine is a 20ft 65' Globe Trotter...I know the tank idea will work...BUT my shower is in the back, near the toilet...drains the same, bypasses the black water but comes out the same outlet. My concern is the run from the low shower drain to the new GW tank...does it need slope? I need to take measurements, but I could conceive that it could run flat, but with much slope it will lose tank capacity..correct? Thoughts?

slope would be optimal...so would having the drain line enter the tank from above...but in this kind of confined space, it isn't really practical. fact of the matter is that water will seek its own level. the shower drain is on the floor of the trailer; the highest point of an under-floor grey tank is going to be lower than that, if only 3/4 of an inch. therefore, the water will drain from the shower pan to the tank...no matter how high or low on the side of the tank the drain is attached. (as long as there the tank is vented from the top..that's "key"). it'll just drain slowly when the water level in the tank rises to the level of the drain pipe. you wouldn't want to do this in your house, where you might run the shower constantly for prolonged periods...but since RV showers are always "GI" type, due to the low hot-water capacity of the camper, the slow drain is not a big problem. really, no different than using a 3/4 hose from the sewer cap to an external "blue-boy". (I had a little standing water in the bottom of the shower this past weekend when I took a shower under these conditions....it drained, eventually.).

Last year, I experimented with mounting my huge blue-boy to the underside of the trailer, in the spare tire carrier. the belly pan is cut away in that area, opening the cavity formed by the frame just aft of the a-frame, to make room for a tire to fit up in there. I dont' have a spare, and I really wanted to go dry camping with a group, at a place where grey dumping was verbotten. so I rigged this up w/ a long piece of pex tubing, connected to the 3/4 fitting on the sewer outlet, and mounted the blue-boy on the spare tire carrier. ran the pex up over the axles, and to the front of the trailer. had garden-hose fittings on either end of the pex pipe. I attached the pipe to the blue-boy via a short piece of garden hose to another sewer cap fitting on the blue boy. (this blue boy is a 4-wheeler, so it has a dump valve, just like a camper's, mounted in the lowest spot; it would be too heavy to lift and dump otherwise.). so this drain dropped down from the trailer's sewer outlet, curved back uphill to where it was secured w/ hose clamps to the pan, snaked its way all the way to the front of the camper, then sloped down and under the blue-boy, and back up the other side, and then filled the blue-boy from the BOTTOM. and it worked. We took showers that weekend, and everything worked just fine.

I did find that it was a PITA to mount the blue-boy on the spare bracket, because its big, bulky, heavy, and just barely fits. but it did work in a pinch. It also hung down pretty low, too, which sort of made me a little nervous...but people w/ newer trailers have plumbing that has just as little ground clearance, so...

I posted a diagram here somewhere...I'll see if I can find it.