1978 30' Argosy Remodel - Here we go!

[Markeyro]

Hello Argosy People!

My name is Mark and I'm in that early stage of starting a full out Argosy remodel. I have really, really enjoyed reading through different parts of this forum and as I'm about to embark on a big journey and project, I thought I'd throw a few questions out there for some feedback.

So, here's our situation:
I found what I understand to be a 1978 (manuf. 9/77) 30' Argosy TT with rear bathroom setup and what I think was a twin bed setup. The exterior appears to be in good condition, no big dents, or even very many smallish ones. The inside is already partially gutted, but does have what is a nasty original stove, fridge, furnace, and AC. (See the pics at end of post). I'm getting what I feel is a really good price on the unit and should allow us to make some of the bigger initial improvements that it surely needs.

So I have several questions which I guess I'll just launch into.

First set revolves around getting this unit back to my house which is about 2 hours from where it is currently sitting.
1. So obviously I'm nervous about the tires/axels on the unit. The tires look decent and the current owner says that they were on the road 4 months ago. I know nothing about the condition of the axels but imagine that it all needs a refresh. Does it make sense for me to get a hold of 2 new tires to bring along with me, and drive this trailer back very carefully ready to change out a tire or two if need be? Due to the distance I can't really drive out, and haul it to a local trailer place to leave to get checked out, but need to do the trip in one day. Thoughts along these lines?

2. The front 3 windows are all currently intact which is awesome, but I'm really nervous about having one of those expensive wrap arounds destroyed on the way back. Would it make sense for me to just come up with a temporary rock guard for the trip home and go from there?

3. Any other initial issues that I should worry about related to transport back that anyone could weigh in on?

Second set of questions are general remodel type questions. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'd say that I'm quite handy having rewired and re-plumbed my existing home in addition to lots of experience with wood and metal work. I've read through most of Sergei's posts about his remodel, but haven't had time to venture into all of the side posts into plumbing, electrical, etc. So I apologize for any redundency, but it's hard to find good consensus opinions on many of these topics without spending hours searching and reading…. okay, here goes….

1. Basic plan is to get the unit back here, finish gutting the inside, down to the ribs, check the floor and redo what's necessary, re-plumb with PEX, make electrical adjustments/improvements, address any rust issues with frame and paint and reseal, new axles and tires once ready to camp, address hitch and get wt distribution hitch with anti-sway, clean up and reseal windows and doors, and (big general category) completely redo interior in modern minimalist style.

2. Insulation feedback. I've searched and read and read and can't understand any consensus opinions on how to insulate these suckers. I live in Indiana and would like a decently well insulated unit, but at this point don't have any grand plans of full timing or doing lots of cold weather camping. I've read on ceramic paint, the foil faced bubble wrap, 1/2" blue insulation board, fiberglass, etc. Any direction to some posts which are most helpful would be appreciated.

3. I'd also like some thoughts on relocating our bathroom. Currently a rear model, but would like to put a bunkbed combo in the back and move the bath to rear/middlish region on one side. Any feedback on the difficulty of doing this as it relates to backwater and gray water tanks would be greatly appreciated. Clearly we're not locked into this idea, but strongly leaning this way. Also we would be redoing the bathroom/shower/toilet/vanity fully. Not interested in keeping the old stuff, just our personal preference.

So those are most of my initial big questions, although I have tons of smaller more specific ones.

Excited to embark on this journey, and have been so impressed with the people in this forum, helpful, kind, and honest.

Thanks in advance, appreciate the help,
Mark

[Del Gurney]

Hi Mark: Congratulations on your new project. Everyone will have they're own opinions on what you should do and this forum is awesome for seeing what others do so you can formulate your own vision.
My 2c:
When I bought mine I hired a professional towing co. to bring it the 2-3 hrs home.
I had them do it on a Sunday AM to avoid the Seattle traffic. So no drama/worry on my part. Would'ent hurt to take a spare tire along with those drive on "lego blocks" for raising one tire off the ground.....tire iron too. You can bubble wrap your windows with "100 mile on hour tape" (Duct)
Only other thing I have to say about your remodel is that I wish I had the "split bath room" where the shower is on one side and the toilet/ sink on the other. Then two doors that close off the center isle so you have a full width bath-room when needed......a shower vent right over the shower and another in the toilet. Venting and plumbing will be "involved". Bath rooms seem best located over the wheel well's.
Have you looked at the latest link on the "Portal" for the latest interior design coming out of Airstream for '14.....minimalist Italian design by Riva boat co.??
Good luck

[Markeyro]

Del Gurney,

Thanks for the info. I appreciate the feedback. Great idea about having a tow truck company to do the initial haul. I'll be checking into that option. Also like the idea about the front windows coverage.

I also checked out those pics of the Riva Boat Co, Airstream collaboration. Very nice clean look, very much in the style / feel that we're going for.

Could you elaborate on the split bathroom you were talking about? Just so I understand, Shower "midship" on one side of the "aisle", then the toilet and sink on the opposite side of the "aisle"? Sliding doors to connect these 2 areas to make into one bath which cuts off access to the back area. so then would you also have individual doors for each side?? Sorry if i'm not understanding, but I'm eager for options. Also I'm assuming this would necessitate moving my tanks closer to the axles...

Thanks again!
mark

[Del Gurney]

Mark:
The split bath room does have a shower door on one side and toilet door on the other.
It's standard on some Airstream models so you can just look at the floor plans on the AS site
Not sliding doors, but the accordion fabric type for the center isle for weight and simplicity.
cheers

[overlander64]

Greetings Markeyro!
Welcome to the Forums and the world of Vintage Argosy ownership!

Originally Posted by Markeyro

1. So obviously I'm nervous about the tires/axels on the unit. The tires look decent and the current owner says that they were on the road 4 months ago. I know nothing about the condition of the axels but imagine that it all needs a refresh. Does it make sense for me to get a hold of 2 new tires to bring along with me, and drive this trailer back very carefully ready to change out a tire or two if need be? Due to the distance I can't really drive out, and haul it to a local trailer place to leave to get checked out, but need to do the trip in one day. Thoughts along these lines?

Unknown tires and unknown bearings are two critical factors in a successful first tow of an "as found" Argosy or Airstream. A blown tire or seized bearing can cause many hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage. At the bare minimum, I would suggest servicing the bearings and closely examining the tires for evidence of age related damage. My suggestion would be to replace any suspicious tires before proceeding. Also, on a coach the size of the Argosy 30, working brakes would be a high priority as well for an initial tow of the duration that you anticipate.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

2. The front 3 windows are all currently intact which is awesome, but I'm really nervous about having one of those expensive wrap arounds destroyed on the way back. Would it make sense for me to just come up with a temporary rock guard for the trip home and go from there?

What you propose is a good idea given the fact that the clear deep-wrap panoramic windows are no longer available in the regular replacement market . . . the only option being units from a salvage yard. Even the replacement solar gray tinted deep-wrap wing windows are expensive at approximately $750 each.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

3. Any other initial issues that I should worry about related to transport back that anyone could weigh in on?

There are several issues that should be of concern prior to the first tow of an "as found" Vintage Argosy:

• Trailer Umbilical Connector: Our coaches were built prior to the standardization upon the 7-blade RV connector with its standard wire color coding and wiring pattern. You may find that the coach has a 7-pin connector wired to the original Argosy standard or one dreamed up by a prior owner. I have attached a pdf file containing the wiring schematic that was originally utilized by Airstream and Argosy during this time period. My suggestion would be to carry a trailer end that matches your tow vehicle's connector in preparation for the need to rewire the coach's umbilical cord connector.
• Brakes, Tires, and Bearings: Any travel trailer that has been idle for an indeterminant time or that has an unknown period of time elapsed since the last bearing re-pack and brake inspection needs to have these critical safety related inspections completed prior to a road trip. Tires of an unknown age are an invitation to potential disaster as a blow-out can easily cause several hundred dollars in damage if not two or three thousand dollars in damage. Also with a coach of this size, you will want to be certain that your tow vehicle has a working electronic trailer brake controller so that you will have trailer brakes on your tow home.
• Securing Exterior for Towing: Since it appears that the trailer may not have been used for quite some time, it would be wise to carry some duct tape to secure any exterior compartment doors, trim or attached items that may not be well secured. It isn't uncommon to hear reports of compartment doors, water heater access doors, etc. falling off while in-transit on the first trip. It is also advisable to rig some sort of mechanism to secure the entry door on the coach. Somewhere here on the Forums is the outline of how to create a door stop from a scrap of wood that wedges between the entry door on the assist handle to insure that the door doesn't pop open while in-transit. In one of the photos, I noticed that the lock for the fresh wather fill has apparently been drilled to remove the cylinder . . . that shouldn't be a problem for that particular "access hatch" but any other access hatches with a "drilled-out" lock cylinder must be secured for travel to prevent the loss of that hatch cove

Originally Posted by Markeyro

1. Basic plan is to get the unit back here, finish gutting the inside, down to the ribs, check the floor and redo what's necessary, re-plumb with PEX, make electrical adjustments/improvements, address any rust issues with frame and paint and reseal, new axles and tires once ready to camp, address hitch and get wt distribution hitch with anti-sway, clean up and reseal windows and doors, and (big general category) completely redo interior in modern minimalist style.

I would suggest considering getting a weight distributing hitch setup prior to the first tow. The Argosy 30 is a long and comparatively heavy coach that needs weight distribution at the very least, and I would suggest that something like the Reese Strait-Line hitch with dual cam sway control is a budget-minded option for both weight distribution and sway control.

Unless you find that large-scale floor replacement is necessary, I would suggest reconsidering pulling the interior skins. Unless terribly damaged, the interior skins can be effectively cleaned with a number of products, and Future Floor (Acrylic) Wax can effectively prevent the return of the sticky surface for a number of seasons.

Generally, my experience has been that the interior skins on both of my coaches have needed little more than cleaning to make them servicable. The only electrical problems that I have encountered have been with exposed wires that have been damaged by rough handling by previous owners or by field mice.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

2. Insulation feedback. I've searched and read and read and can't understand any consensus opinions on how to insulate these suckers. I live in Indiana and would like a decently well insulated unit, but at this point don't have any grand plans of full timing or doing lots of cold weather camping. I've read on ceramic paint, the foil faced bubble wrap, 1/2" blue insulation board, fiberglass, etc. Any direction to some posts which are most helpful would be appreciated.

My suggestion, would be to leave well enough alone unless you have evidence of pervasive leaks and/or excessive rodent infestation. The original fiberglass insulation isn't terribly effective, but the available space is definitely a limiting factor. My thought was that for the modest improvement in R-Value available even with the best of the modern materials don't provide a huge benefit untless the walls must be opened up for some other reason. Both of my coaches are as originally equipped, and I have comfortably camped in either one through the first part of December without great problem . . . it really helps to have a properly functioning furnace to prevent freeze issues with the holding tanks.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

3. I'd also like some thoughts on relocating our bathroom. Currently a rear model, but would like to put a bunkbed combo in the back and move the bath to rear/middlish region on one side. Any feedback on the difficulty of doing this as it relates to backwater and gray water tanks would be greatly appreciated. Clearly we're not locked into this idea, but strongly leaning this way. Also we would be redoing the bathroom/shower/toilet/vanity fully. Not interested in keeping the old stuff, just our personal preference.
So those are most of my initial big questions, although I have tons of smaller more specific ones.

So long as you are planning a complete re-make of the interior, what you propose is certainly possible. One of the problems that is often encountered is that you have difficulty positioning the bathroom such that it doesn't conflict with a window. You may also find difficulty running waste vents and placing waste tanks due to window and furniture placement . . . not that it can't be done . . . there are challenges involved. A second challenge may be finding a shower base that will work with the curved walls . . . one from a newer Airstream may work but the curvatures may be somewhat different.

Good luck with your project!

Kevin

[Markeyro]

Thanks so much for all of that information. Super helpful and is definitely helping to form my plans to hopefully get this baby home.

Quick side question regarding "VIN plates" that I've seen around the forum.

The current owner is trying to find the VIN for this argosy, but can't find anything other than the plate on the front (see attached). Is that bottom number an old style VIN? I thought that it was just the serial number for the trailer. not the official vin?

Where would I locate the real VIN number? Any help would be great appreciated as I must have that in order to get a court ordered title for this guy, otherwise, my argosy dreams may go up in smoke....

Thanks in advance!
mark

[Stoney]

The bottom number is the vin number.That were they where in that era ( called the trailer type)

[Markeyro]

Next in the saga...

So I've been talking with the BMV and the County Courts about obtaining a Court Ordered Title. Anyone have any experience with these? Both places make it sound like no big deal and simple formalities to get a cleared title issued to me once I go through the hoops, and yes there are quite a few, but this deal seems too good to be true and I think I'm willing to go there! We'll see what happens...

mark

[rogerdodger]

Originally Posted by Markeyro

Thanks so much for all of that information. Super helpful and is definitely helping to form my plans to hopefully get this baby home.

Quick side question regarding "VIN plates" that I've seen around the forum.

The current owner is trying to find the VIN for this argosy, but can't find anything other than the plate on the front (see attached). Is that bottom number an old style VIN? I thought that it was just the serial number for the trailer. not the official vin?

Where would I locate the real VIN number? Any help would be great appreciated as I must have that in order to get a court ordered title for this guy, otherwise, my argosy dreams may go up in smoke....

Thanks in advance!
mark

You should also find the trailer# stamped on the tongue, this is where I had to verify the serial# of my trailer to register and get an ownership cert. issued here in California. Your state may also require it.

[Markeyro]

Originally Posted by rogerdodger

You should also find the trailer# stamped on the tongue, this is where I had to verify the serial# of my trailer to register and get an ownership cert. issued here in California. Your state may also require it.

Good to know! I'll try and track that down when I have the trooper come out for my vin inspection and when submitting my paperwork.
Thx, mark

[Markeyro]

Well looks positive to go pick this baby up on Saturday! Here's to hoping for a smooth transport! Wish me luck!

[Markeyro]

Gonna hit the road to pick her up this am.

Nervous and excited. I have a beefy tow vehicle and an experienced hauler who has generously offered to help me. Here's to protecting those beautiful windows, no flats, keeping the doors and panels on, and a generally problem free trip. I've got my duct tape, cardboard and some padding for those windows, bungee cords, some clamps, tow strap, tie downs, an air compressor, some chain, and a coffee. Also located the trailer and tire places along the way. Should about cover it. I'll let you know how it goes!

[Resolute_ZS]

Good luck! Let us know how the tow goes!

[Markeyro]

Rolling down the road now, towing well so far!

[Markeyro]

Well, we made it home without incident, so that seems good!

The argosy hauled really easy with the Ford 3500 diesel. Brakes worked on the trailer, though squeaky, and had to use some tie downs to keep a loose belly pan from dragging, but really an easy, easy trip.

Excited for the coming weeks/ months, working on forming up the plan here in the coming days. I'm sure there will be lots more to post, but as I'm doing this from my phone, I'm going to sign off and bring pics and details later on. Thanks for all the encouragement, support, and advice!

Mark

[rogerdodger]

Glad you got it home safely. FYI Here is where the vin# is located on the tongue behind the tank on my Argosy, yours should be in the same place.

[Markeyro]

Thx, mine is likely under much paint!

[Markeyro]

Okay, I've had a few hours to gather myself. I wanted to give a heads up to my current situation and plans, and then ask for some feedback along some specific lines.

Our basic philosophy with all this is that we're planning a total custom remodel doing almost all of the work ourselves. We are not rich so can't afford to have lots of work paid for or to use super high end appliances, etc. but at the same time I am a craftsman, and believe I'm going to be able to put together a clean and crisp modern remodel.

Anyways, there it is, here goes!!

Where I'm at in the immediate future:
- Got this trailer out in my driveway, winters about to hit, so my plan is to get a big tarp and cover it up, but with a way for easy access inside so that I can do my winter work
- Ready to rip out all the insides down to the interior wall panels. Have some questions about some of the stuff I'm ripping out and if there is a demand for any of it.
- Will be looking at the floor condition, which sections need ripped out and replaced.
- Thinking through insulation under the floor, depending on how much floor we need to pull up.
- Advice on which leveling jacks to purchase, as I'll be immediately replacing all 4 of these. They are in ROUGH shape.
- Also assuming this 30' Argosy 1978 uses standard Olympic 5/32" Rivets? I have a dremel, and a rivet gun already, any other really handy tools I'll certainly need in the riveting realm? I also have a pretty fully outfitted shop... Table saw, Miter Saw, Router w/table, drills, drivers, compressor, sanders, angle grinder, and a miss of other stuff.

Bigger looming questions as we think about the remodel include
- Whether to relocate bathroom to "midships" with tanks over the axles? Considering this for functionality and preferences.
- How to go about our electrical? Which distribution panel/converter/charger to go with? Is there one with an integrated inverter for use when not plugged in. Would love a solid "all in one" solution that doesn't break the bank recognizing that we'll be spending some money piecing it all together as well.
- Information on how to patch and repair holes in the interior skins from previous perforations.

That is probably a good start, and I will try to post some solid interior / exterior pictures this afternoon / evening.

Once again, thanks to all for this amazing community and the willingness to help with wisdom gained in going ahead of some of us newbs,

Mark

[Russ G]

Hey I live in fort Wayne and I saw your argosy on craigslist. Good luck w your remodel. I just bought a 20' minuet w the interior in worse shape but I paid $300. If you have plans to gut your bath I would like to buy it all mine is gone to ironically make bunk beds. Or if you have any other stuff you won't need please call. 260-229-0835 russ

[overlander64]

Greetings Markeyro!

Originally Posted by Markeyro

Where I'm at in the immediate future:

- Got this trailer out in my driveway, winters about to hit, so my plan is to get a big tarp and cover it up, but with a way for easy access inside so that I can do my winter work

The general recommendation is to avoid tarping an Airstream product. With an Airstream it is an abolute not .. . . with an Argosy you don't have the Plasticoated aluminum surface to preserve, but a tarp is going to abrade the paint and can usually only be resolved through a repaint. My suggestion would be to make it a point to seal the exterior seams and gaps. You will also then be able to monitor the coach for leak points and correct those as you work during the winter months.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

- Ready to rip out all the insides down to the interior wall panels. Have some questions about some of the stuff I'm ripping out and if there is a demand for any of it.

You will likely find someone on the Forums who may want just about any original component that you remove. The Forums Classifieds offer a good opportunity for disposal of items.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

- Advice on which leveling jacks to purchase, as I'll be immediately replacing all 4 of these. They are in ROUGH shape.

For the greatest functionality, I would suggest going with BAL Long shank stabilizing jacks found in this link. The long shank is a necessity with the curved sides on an Airstream or an Argosy. I treid to economize with my first set of stabilizer jacks and utilized another brand/design and they were a chore to deploy and didn't fold compactly against the bottom of the coach and were drug off on a gas station approach in less than two seasons. I have had the above BAL stabilizers on both my Minuet and Overlander for a number of years without problem. If these are what are already on your Argosy, you may find that they are worth restoring.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

Bigger looming questions as we think about the remodel include
- Whether to relocate bathroom to "midships" with tanks over the axles?

With a major rennovation, moving the bathroom is possible . . . the biggest obstacles are typically windows that must be worked around. The thing to keep in mind as you place your waste tanks is placement of the dump valve . . . most camsites are setup with the idea that the dump valve will be on the streetside near the rear corner. I suspect that locating the waste tanks above the axles may somewhat restrict their size and make plumbing the dump valve a bit more difficult . . . and the wheel wells within the bath area will make the bath design a little more complicated.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

Considering this for functionality and preferences.
- How to go about our electrical? Which distribution panel/converter/charger to go with? Is there one with an integrated inverter for use when not plugged in.

I have a traditional Magnatec Converter in my Argosy Minuet that handles charging, 12-volt DC needs, and houses the fuse panel with modern automotive fuses; and an Inverter/Charger with an exterior fuse panel that also utilizes modern automotive fuses. Unless you are planning on installing more than two coach batteries and/or a Solar charging system, I would suggest going with a converter/charger as the increased cost of the Inverter system is hard to justify if there isn't a generous battery bank to supply power. My Overlander has three absorbent glass mat batteries with three solar panels so the Inverter/Charger made sense for my use at the time of installation. In my case, the Inverter/Charger was three times the cost of a premium converter/charger.

I realize that the new coaches are utilizing more sophisticated power systems with one central power center serving both 12-Volt DC and 120-Volt AC sides, but I am still quite satisfied with the separate 30-AMP electrical entrance and breaker box. Both of my coaches have modern 30-AMP RV breaker boxes mounted in the original location feeding what is essentially totally original 120-volt AC wiring, and I have encountered no particular problems with this arrangement. I did, however, upgrade my Overlander to a modern Marinco 30-AMP power connection.

Originally Posted by Markeyro

- Information on how to patch and repair holes in the interior skins from previous perforations.

The answer to this question is dependent upon a number of factors.

• Small holes that remain after small hanging devices are removed can be filled with rivets matching the color of your vinyl-clad interior walls.
• Large holes left after relocating an electrical box or other item that actually penetrated the skin is a slightly more involved task.
  • Where the repair will be hidden behind furniture, obscured by draperies or otherwise not in the direct line of sight, it is possible to apply a patch.
    • The first task is to find a piece of Vinyl-Clad aluminum that matches or is a near match for the Vinyl-Clad utilized in your coach.
      • While paying attention to the direction that the grain of the Vinyl-Clad runs, cut a patch at least 1/4-inch larger in all dimensions.
      • Attach the patch with pop rivets that match the color of your Vinyl-Clad (depending upon where the patch is located, you might want to fold the edges of the patch over so that there aren't any rough edges).
  • In a situation where you have a significant area to patch that is going to be in the line of sight, panel replacement might be called for . . . but the problem will be finding the Vinyl-Clad aluminum as it is my understanding that the only source for the type that was used in our coaches if from a salvaged unit.

Good luck with your Argosy!

Kevin

That is probably a good start, and I will try to post some solid interior / exterior pictures this afternoon / evening.

Once again, thanks to all for this amazing community and the willingness to help with wisdom gained in going ahead of some of us newbs,

Mark[/QUOTE]