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Old 10-16-2007, 07:02 PM   #21
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Thanks, Aerowood, but I'm about to attempt to become a world class worker in polyethylene.

The threaded plastic fitting in the black tank for the toilet ring has broken away from the tank a full 180 degrees around the aft side. I think this happened because the tank itself slopes down and away from the floor as you go aft, which put a lot of strain on the weld (the tank ring, as you screw it in, pulls the aft side of the tank up). It looks like the fitting ought to have a wedge of plastic under it on the aft side to reduce this stress.

The break is clean, no cracks into the skin of the tank as far as I can tell. It looks like the fitting just tore out of the tank along the seam, with only minor pieces of the tank adhering to the fitting.

The photo is looking down on the fitting--this is a mid-bath and the toilet faces forward in the trailer.

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The thing that kills me is that I checked for leaks and this problem didn't show up until the Sovereign was under way with a full black tank--the slosh resulted in a spill that leaked over the top of the tank, soaked the fiberglass insulation on the top of the tank, then dripped out the belly pan with no hint of a leak around the toilet inside the trailer. Fortunately I had filled the tank with clean water just in case there was a leak at the top of the tank.

I'm going to attempt to fix this in place. The options are using a Scotch-Weld product (it's a glue, has about 2 minutes working time and is purported to generate a bond stronger than the base material) designed for plastic, or do a plastic weld, which I haven't done before. Has anyone used the Scotch-Weld?

As far as doing a plastic weld, does anyone know what kind of polyethylene the tanks are made of? Like (HDPE) High Density Polyethylene, (HMW) High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, (UHMW) Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, (LDPE) Low Density Polyethylene, (LLDPE) Linear Low Density Polyethylene, (ULLDPE) Ultra low Density Polyethylene, (MDPE) Medium Density Polyethylene? I guess you're supposed to know this when you order the plastic welding rod.

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Old 03-17-2008, 10:14 AM   #22
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Progress report. Bed has been in for some time, just never got any photos up. Black tank leak repaired, but hasn't been on the road since, so we'll have to wait to see how it holds up.

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The mattress is a WallyWorld queen special--8" thick with memory foam on top. The mattress had to be trimmed to accomodate the 54" x 80" frame, the curve of the shell, and to fit the 45 degree frame corner at the foot. Neither of these "incroachments" seem to be objectionable. I don't think you can comfortably install a bed wider than 54" in an Airstream, unless you sacrifice a lot of other space.

Slide-storage is provided in three compartments under the bed that go back [towards the curb-side wall] 34". The remaining 18" space under the bed against the wall is one long compartment with access from outside or from a cutout in the supporting sheet of plywood

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Old 03-17-2008, 10:27 AM   #23
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Love the floor plan. We have the L-lounge in our '71 Sovereign, and it has become our favorite feature in any floor plan ever. But yours is even better because of the bed in the back, and I don't think you'll have any problem with the encroachment. The POs of our trailer widened one of the twins into a double, and even in the center of the trailer, it's not really an issue.

Great work!
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
The threaded plastic fitting in the black tank for the toilet ring has broken away from the tank a full 180 degrees around the aft side. I think this happened because the tank itself slopes down and away from the floor as you go aft, which put a lot of strain on the weld (the tank ring, as you screw it in, pulls the aft side of the tank up). It looks like the fitting ought to have a wedge of plastic under it on the aft side to reduce this stress.


Zep
I think this is a common design flaw, as my black tank had a similar issue with the dump valve flange being under constant stress (causing it to crack) and the semi-rotted subfloor pressed down on the top of the tank itself (which should never have been protruding up ABOVE the top edge of the blacktank pan anyway). Maybe they weren't quite careful enough in fitting tank/pan/floor back in those days... but it looks like, once again, you're doing a fine job of correcting & improving. Thanks for the nice documentation too..
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I'm using Pergo-like hardboard to replace the carpet. The first decision was to create a bath floor separate from the main area. The intent is to be able to remove or replace this area easily. The "joint" lines between the bath and other floor will be covered by the base of new walls made from 1/2" birch plywood. Replacing the flooring, if that should ever be necessary, will require the removal of about 12 screws to get the walls out first. Once the floor was rough-cut and installed, the toilet was placed over the drain and a cutout was drawn around the base of the toilet. The objective here was to ensure that the toilet was a tight as possible to the drain (I hate the idea of slosh getting out from under the toilet). However, the hold down bolts don't precisely locate the toilet in this case, since it's not down on the drain rim. I found about 3/8" difference between where the PEX said the toilet ought to be and where the cutout placed it. Just be careful to get the toilet placed as perfectly as possible, if you decide this is a good way to go.

Attachment 22211Attachment 22212

The white on the floor is alkyd/oil based paint. Another thread suggested this was a good idea and while testing the plumbing, drains, valves, etc. it turned out to be a very good idea. I think I soaked the floor at least three times in one day.

It really looks good [to me] when the toilet is installed. It's a nice fit and the flooring doesn't interfere with the operation of the foot pedal valves. Obtaining a good fit with the shower wall and smoothly under the pluming took a little time--about 5 hours for the whole bath. You can see some discoloration at the bottom of the plastic dome--TSP did a good job of removing the old goo off the walls, but on the plastic it seemed to "rain" gold-brown" gunk as it released the old oil and dirt (nicotine?). I haven't been able to get much of that out, although the surface feels very clean.

Attachment 22213Attachment 22214

The exposed seam between the bath flooring and the main floor (under the sliding bath door, essentially) will be covered with a thin brass-colored threshhold. I had considered taking out the vent pipe in the corner of the bath and replacing it with a modern vacuum breaker vent, when I realized this isn't really a drain vent. It's a gas-production relief vent, which a vacuum breaker can't satisfy! The thought of the consequences of this near-error makes me shudder...

The remainder took about 3 hours. The uncovered area on the curb side will be in a hidden locker under the back side of the bed, once the bed frame is installled. This view from the kitchen aft documents the current closet arrangement. I can only think "what were they thinking" with two huge hanging closets. I'm in this to get away from suits and other hanging stuff--where are the shelves and drawers for jeans and boots? There will be major changes here, too.

Attachment 22215

The only down note so far is that when I put the Fantastic Vent in the back, the interior spots quit working, as well as the little bulb that was down in the locker served by the side access door. Crap, I must have cut a wire and not noticed it. However, after taking the Sovereign back to the storage yard last night, I did a walkthrough and noticed one was back on. All now work. Crap, an intermittent connection! Anyone know if there is a bullet connector for this set of lights and where it might be, approximately?

--- to be continued ---
know its an older thread, but do you remember where you got that pressure regulator shown in the pictures (or was that the original) ours had freeze damage. Haven't seen one with quality around here.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goransons
know its an older thread, but do you remember where you got that pressure regulator shown in the pictures (or was that the original) ours had freeze damage. Haven't seen one with quality around here.
Yes, I got it at the local specialty plumbing shop. Just your average type place, but not a big box store, less than $10 as I recall. However, I have purchased 100 and 200 psi guages at HD and used them in the house with no problems for 15 years.

If you plan on hooking up to city water, remember you need to get a guage than can handle it (at least 100 psi--even if you have a pressure regulator!).

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Old 04-13-2008, 09:06 PM   #27
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Back to work on the Sovereign--it's going to the 4CU Refurbishment rally! Last year when I stopped work on the cabinets, the bathroom still needed doors and drawers.

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Here's the first step. I generally followed the outline of the original cabinets, so the water heater needed a "bump-out" cover. I was going to do it in wood, but the 60 and 30 degree joint was going to take some time, so I decided to do it in aluminum. I don't think I saved any time, after all is said and done, but it sure is light in comparison to what a wooden cover would have weighed.

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I used the steel table saw table and a 2x4 with clamps to get the long bends in the sheet. Man, I need a brake! But it turned out OK, you can barely see the mallet marks. They're a lot more pronounced in this photo than they really are.

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There is a ball valve behind the cover (see its blue handle sticking out) for cutting off water in cold weater to the toilet and pressure regulator, so the cover has a small "reach thru" to get to the valve handle. I decided the sheet metal was a bit sharp, so I put a shield of 1/2" channel around it.

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Next step is a new kitchen counter and cabinets underneath.

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Old 04-13-2008, 09:53 PM   #28
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man, that would be such a hoot to check out the 4cu resto-rally, alas I will be manning a booth at JazzFest (could be worse I spoze..) Looks like you either found some PRE-polished aluminum ? or used some leftover on that excellent weigh-saving hwh cover, that rascal is downright shiny..smart choice... every ounce counts, especially with $4/gal gas these days... its just hard to go wrong with adding aluminum, IMHO..
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
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...Looks like you either found some PRE-polished aluminum ? ...
Actually, it's just Nuvite C with swirl marks. But you get 5 feet away with the right light angle and "pop" it look good. Just for info's sake, it's 2024-T3 Bare (no aluminum cladding). Took about 30 minutes and 3 passes to get it to this point--some 600 grit emery paper in places, followed by polish.

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Old 08-29-2008, 02:02 PM   #30
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aluminum cabinet

1. This is an experiment.
2. It's harder than it looks. The aluminum sheets are plenty strong vertically--to support the counter--but are flexible in the fore-aft direction and curvable otherwise, so you don't get an easy to install panel.
3. Don't think I'd do it again--maybe covering a 1/2" plywood cabinet would be a better approach, if you want the look.

Enough said. This front view shows the end partition, which will go against the shower wal , and the two partitions on either side of the oven. The half-height horizontal piece stabilizes the back edge of the panels. This is similar to how I do my wooden cabinets--it produces a nice, square cabinet and the partitions don't have to be cut to fit the inner shell. It also provides mounting space for hold-back magnets for the drawers.

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This back view illustrates some of the access holes required to screw the countertop to the shell.

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This top view shows the 2' of counter space gained by going to a single bowl sink mounted sideways. This worked well in my Overlander, where I used the old two-bowl sink. I think this sink is way more functional. Having the faucet sideways doesn't seem to be a problem. One issue that popped up in this design, as well as others where I work to get maximum counter top, is that the hold downs for the sink are often hard to get to--some cases require large access holes through the partitions.

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I also like to get maximum under-sink space, so I try to hide the J-trap back out of the way.

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Final view. There's a lot more work to do to get drawers and shelves installed (installed? how about just figuring out how to do them!), but it's a start. One thing to note near the door--the magazine rack was removed and the partition was placed closer to the stove. This will allow a catalytic heater to be hung there without protruding too far into the doorway. The heater will be on a hinge aparatus that will allow it to be swung around and point back towards the rear of the trailer.

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Old 08-29-2008, 04:29 PM   #31
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I forgot to mention that part of the counter top space came from recovering 3" from the false wall on the shower end of the kitchen. I turns out there was a gray vent pipe inside. I replaced the vent with a $20 air intake valve designed for this purpose. The under-cabinet partition to the right of the sink is 3-1/2" deep to allow for the sink drain pipes and that valve, but above the counter all the space is recovered.

There is another gray tank vent in the closet on the other side of the trailer, which is overkill but I'm leaving it functional for now.

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Old 09-01-2008, 10:38 PM   #32
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Looks modern I like it
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #33
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Finally got enough of the panels in to allow installation of the drawers.

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The drawer faces will eventually be aluminum panels so when the drawers are closed the entire cabinet will have a total metal finish.

The drawers will be retained by magnets on a narrow board. The board will move vertically behind the drawers. This will allow the drawers to open easily when parked. Mechanism details to follow, when I get time to fabricate it.

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Old 12-05-2008, 11:03 PM   #34
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I noticed that I never posted the final bathroom, just the heater cover. So here it is.

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I really like the small stainless sink. It was some old bar sink I rescued from a dump. It takes up a little more room than the small sink that was molded in the plastic counter, but it's much more useagle adn there's still plenty of counter space.

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Old 12-06-2008, 09:49 AM   #35
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I have a 76 Sovereign if you just can't stop after you finish yours. That's going to be beautiful.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:41 AM   #36
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Here's a shot of the magnetic retentionn system. The drawers were made 5/8" shorter than the cabinet depth and the magnets are flush mounted in a strip of 1/2" plywood. The plywood can slide up and down, retained by two short lengths of "Z" channel. The Z-channel extends downward to provide additional stiffness to the plywood--otherwise when you pull out the bottom drawer the drawer above it moves out a little. In order to get the plywood in and out, the left Z-channel is riveted, but the right one is mounted with #6 sheet metal screws.

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As shown, the plywood is "down" from its normal position. Once one drawer is installled and the plywood is moved up to align the magnets, it stays in place. With all the drawers in, you can pull out two or three of the five drawers and the magnets keep the plywood in place.

The strip was made moveable in case the pull force was objectionable. When stopped, it was intended that a small cam mechanism could manually push the strip down so the magnets could not engage. It turns out the pull-away forces aren't that high, so maybe this will remain as it is.

Speaking of pull force, you can see that one column of magnets is 1/2" and the other is 3/4" (all are 1/8" thick). This was to allow for experimenting with the pull force. As it turns out, the drawers have all 1/2" magnets. The top two, with light contents, have one, and the bottom three drawers, with heavy contents (like canned goods), have two.

We depart tomorrow for a 2,000 mile test flight!

Zep

PS--my source for magnets is eMovendo (Emovendo*Magnets*&...). Fast, good prices, huge selection, did I say FAST?
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:01 AM   #37
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Hi guys, just bought my first Airstream, 69 Sovereign! Very excited though a bit nervous. Question, what is this rear sag thing I'm reading about? and how can I tell if my baby suffers from it? Also, any 69 Sovereign manuals out there? Thanks guys...... Johnny
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:59 PM   #38
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Safe travels Zep! It's COLD out here in Seattle today! Of course, compared with CO, it may be warm.

Your trailer is looking fantastic!
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:50 PM   #39
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Quite an inspiration, Zep. I wish I had a better understandingof PEX plumbing and could make a manifold with cutoffs to easily blow out the system in winter. Anyway, I love the flooring and each time I see a picture, it makes it easy to decide that this is what I want. Thanks for the photos, they're great.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:42 PM   #40
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The back bedroom is coming along. I did a desk similar to this in the Overlander. I'm not sure if it wouldn't be better to just use a pair of drawer slides in their normal orientation (vertical) rather than flat, but you'd still need a panel under the desktop to ensure the partitions are parallel and held at a precise width. The total height of the desktop and the panel would be about an inch more than this method.

The desktop is 34" wide and 17-1/2" deep. This is plenty for a laptop and some paperwork on the side.

With the desk closed, the room between the edge of the bed and the desk edge is about 22". Now that it's installed, I'm wondering why I made the partitions so tall. I may decide later to cut them down even with the bottom on the window. One thing that argues for keeping them high is that I can install a small shelf or a light bar up above the window. Note the cable holes in the right side partition--there are also holes that allow cable runs from the shelf above the desk down to the desk and even down into the cabinet (there's about 1/2" clearance at the back of the desk when the desk is closed).

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With the desk pulled out, there isn't much vertical space between the matress and the underside of the desk. This may seem too close, but the matress is memory foam, so it compresses down in about 3 minutes and the desk height is very comfortable (I like a low typing height, almost down on my thighs).

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Now for a definite problem. The doors on the cabinets swing down. It was a bad idea for the lower doors to have a protruding handle, because the upper door rests on that handle. I may convert the lower doors to finger pull holes.

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