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Old 12-04-2018, 07:38 PM   #21
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1978 31' Sovereign
Lincoln University , Pennsylvania
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So, the rear end fix...
What do I do about the half of the angle iron that's left between the two pieces of aluminum at the rear base of the shell?
  1. Do I get rid of everything loose, brush it with conversion coat, paint it and seal it up the best I can and drink a couple of beers?
  2. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, prime, put back together without any iron, and paint, and drink a beer?
  3. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, prime, get a piece of angle iron, put back together, and paint?
  4. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, install a piece of angle aluminum, prime, put back together, and paint?
Thoughts?
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:54 PM   #22
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Having recently finished my shell off and now spent plenty of time in temperatures down into the high 20's. I feel strongly that I spent way too much time stressing myself with Google over insulation. Luckily I decided that going crazy with wild ideas about insulation was stupid. I insulated cut R5 and R7.5 pink foam squares. If I ever need to remove it for whatever reason, it's easy. When it's 27 degrees oitside I'm warm inside. When it's 100 degrees outside, my small A/C works great. If you find a graph online that depicts R value vs added insulation, you'll see that the more insulation that's added the less of an effect it has.

Spending weeks carefully putting in refletix or changing the structure of your prize with spray foam can tke away much time that can be spent doing so any other things.

If you enjoy spending your time camping in the Tundra, then perhaps you can disregard what I've just said. For me. The limitations of the windows come to play way before the insulation (or lack there of) ever have an effect.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymeyer View Post
So, the rear end fix...
What do I do about the half of the angle iron that's left between the two pieces of aluminum at the rear base of the shell?
  1. Do I get rid of everything loose, brush it with conversion coat, paint it and seal it up the best I can and drink a couple of beers?
  2. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, prime, put back together without any iron, and paint, and drink a beer?
  3. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, prime, get a piece of angle iron, put back together, and paint?
  4. Do I drill out the rivets, split the rear pieces apart, clean out the best I can, install a piece of angle aluminum, prime, put back together, and paint?
Thoughts?
You definitely want that angled piece in place. If it is intact enough to be useable, then extract it, paint it, seal it, and put it back in place. The funky thing about it, as I recall from me rennovation, is that it isn't a conventional angle iron at 90 degrees. It is some custom angle at ~105 or so. No doubt, though, the iron to aluminum interface there will cause a lot of corrosion in the aluminum if water gets into the mix, so seal the iron, but prime the aluminum as well. Some people go as far as inserting a water proof, non conducting material like vellum in between the surfaces as well. I don't have much faith vellum would hold up, or make much of an impact over time, if the interface is consistently wet.

The most important thing you can do is keep the water out of that area. The conventional practice during a rebuild is to insert an "L" shaped flashing inside the back part of the exterior skin so that when water runs down the back of the shell, it lands on the base of the L and is deflected out into the bumper trunk, rather than allowing it to be funneled right into that rear end connection of shell to frame. Do a search for threads regarding correction of Rear-end separation, flashing, and bumper trunks, and you will find some pictures and diagrams that will better spell out what I am talking about.

good luck!
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:33 PM   #24
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Hi andymeyer: Ahhh, the rear body joint of our 70s trailers. I suggest you drink two beers first, and then tackle the job.

The root cause of the problem is the rear body seal along with that piece of "decorative" aluminum sheet between the rear body and bumper. It deflects rainwater right into the subfloor.

The rear body mount is first a steel channel welded between the frame rails, then the subfloor resting on that, then the rear body mounting plate (the steel angle iron your referred to) that is inside the exterior skin, then the rear body "c-channel" between the inner and outer skins.

Here is a photo of the three parts I made to attach the rear body to the frame: Note the new steel channel between the frame rails, then the subfloor patch I made out of oak (too much beer), and then the rear body mounting plate.

I assembled this stuff and firmly attached the rear of the body to the frame.

The last step is not reinstalling the "decorative" aluminum sheet. I will leave a gap and let rainwater sheet off the rear of the body and into the bumper storage area, and then I will let it drain to the ground. I will seal well the subfloor joint of course.

Pass the beer...

David
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:46 PM   #25
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Weather's been cruddy and my 3 little ones have kept me busy, but I got a few hours done today...
Laura got a coat of sealing primer on the front half of the floor - hopefully protect that for years to come. I have the replacement plywood cut and ready to install in the rear (rear 4 feet). Need to get that angle for the rear end... Planning 1/8" AL bent to 75 degrees, 44" long. Primed and riveted in. Also planning Al plates in the C channel to distribute the load of the bolts. The Al where I'm concerned about corrosion will be primed with 7220 (From Napa - self etching primer - same stuff I use on Al aircraft parts). Haven't completed the design of how I'm keeping water out of that rear sheet, but have reviewed the ideas here so far.

Big question now... We are planning on engineered flooring. Do I put a layer of 1/4" Luan over the ply / below the flooring or put the engineered floor right on the ply that's there? It's a fair surface right now, but a layer of luan would stiffen things up and give a smoother surface for the floor. At the penalty of some weight and 1/4" of headroom (I'm only 6' tall).

What's everyone doing about window frames? Just cleaning 'em and leaving the surface corrosion? Brush priming / painting in place? Something I'm not thinking of?
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:41 AM   #26
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Personally, I attached directly to the sub-floor. Remember, weight is the enemy!

Were you thinking to attach or float the floor? This is a subject of much debate here on the Forums. As a once-fervent member of the Attach Party, I can say that my bamboo floor isn't as nice as it once was. The extreme heat of sitting outside in the Florida sun expanded then shrunk the planks. I have small gaps between them. OK, no one really notices but me, but I can't whole-heartedly recommend the method anymore.

Yet there's something about the foot-feel of a floating floor that leaves me feeling like the floor is delaminating. I think that you would have to go wall-to-wall with the floor, while with glue-down you only have to do the parts that you can see or walk on. Water can seep through the cracks and pool up under the floor.

My bamboo hasn't held up as well as I would like it, with some finish damage where my auxiliary A/C leaked, and near the door. Evidently, RV life can be brutal! If I had it to do over again, I would go with a single sheet of linoleum, with a nice speckle print, and call it done.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:58 AM   #27
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I did a floating floor in my Silver Streak about 5 years ago and its held up great in the temperature swing we have in texas. While I really like the look and feel I am constantly nervous about spills etc... When I get to the flooring portion of my AS, I'll likely do a single sheet of Marmoleum (2 piece welded into one actually, but, you know), but I only did a partial shell lift on the SS. I have full access to the floor in the AS.

Food for thought...

Ian
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:02 AM   #28
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I talked to a manufacturer of the flooring for the custom class A motor home ( not an add so I wonít mention name ) They recomened that if I wanted to put my cabinets over the floor to glue down I used the new PVC warerproof flooring and glued it down over 1/4 over my plywood . I love the way it came out . If you go this way, get more glue than they say . Trust me .

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Old 02-11-2019, 08:38 PM   #29
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So, keep it light and forego the luan underlayment...
I plan to put the cabinets, walls, bed and dinette in first, then put the flooring down - making the replacement more bearable. I expect my kids to be hard on it, but we are really leaning on the hardwood floor, and being able to replace parts or the whole thing every couple of years seems attractive...

Plan on the walls??? Prime before install, latex interior paint after they're in? How is everyone filling the extra holes that have show up over the years? Dimple the hole back a bit and fill with a metal epoxy (JB Weld or similar), RTV and paint over? I don't want to replace all of the interior metal.

120V electric boxes - old work blue shallow boxes and standard home receptacles?
12V - how many cigarette light plugs might I need? A couple at most?
USB outlets - I plan on several of these everywhere...
What am I missing - we haven't really done the RV camping thing so I'm doing this on faith and guidance from everyone here...
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:11 PM   #30
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I think the shallow electrical boxes and standard 120v outlets are fine. That's what is in my 75 Overlander. Use grommets on all wire penetrations through body "hoops" as well as interior skins.

I would say you need a 12v "cigarette" lighter receptacle in the living area and the sleeping area. You might need one in the bath too. My Overlander has only two, one in the living area and one in the sleeping area. But cell phones weren't invented yet. Some folks just get a low cost inverter and convert 12v to 120 volts with low power and charge phones that way, but maybe not as efficient. Many late model pickup trucks have those 120v outlets in the cab powered by an inverter. Or you could make it a rule that there are no "devices" in the Airstream. We'll play games together instead.

David
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:15 PM   #31
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Hi Andy,

Welcome! My family of four (kids are now 8 and 5) finished our renovation on our 1984 Excella in 2017, and hit the road that summer. Last year we went out again for about 6 months, and this year are starting even earlier (March 1st) for our next year of travel. It was a ton of work, but totally worth it and I strongly recommend it! The nice thing about doing everything yourself is you can make it tailor-made for your lifestyle needs. And if you want to change it, you know where everything is - we are in the middle of a round of big modifications to our original design (adding more storage, an extra bed/revised office layout in the back, upgraded table pedestal, et cetera) and knowing how everything was built made it a lot easier.

Floors - I definitely would go with snap-in hardwood floors. We love ours, and my kids are definitely not easy on them! The other nice thing as you mentioned is that you can fix/swap out "bad" pieces over time as needed. We had a little bit of water damage by our door and just today I worked on swapping out a piece. I bought an extra box just for this purpose. Good call on building out everything and then putting it in - we did the same thing, and every little bit of weight savings you can gain is win.

Walls - we primed ours and then did interior latex paint. We opted for a shade of white to make it feel clean and open. We were concerned initially about the kids getting it dirty but honestly haven't really had any issues and has held up very well.

Electrical boxes - we used the old work shallow boxes and they fit, but barely. the poke out a tiny bit so we ended up using oversized/deeper plate covers to accommodate.

12V - we only kept one. The only thing I use it for is LTE range extender (which I could get an adapter for, so even for this it's not 100% necessary).

USB outlets - good idea. We didn't install any of these but I've considered swapping out a couple of our outlets with a combo units that has them.

I also second David's note about no devices in the Airstream whenever possible -- a game of Uno always is more fun .

Feel free to reach out if you have any more questions, and best of luck on your renovation!
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:31 AM   #32
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RE: Devices
I built in three small cubby holes in a bulkhead: one for me, one for my wife, and one for electronics. Whenever either one of us lays down sunglasses or keys, and the other wants to use the space, the cubby is where it goes. Well, we try to use them on our own, but you know how that goes. The electronics cubby has 110V power for multiple chargers for phones and tablets. The devices are out of sight, but stay fully charged and ready to go.

RE: Interior paint
Has anyone tried using Duratex as an interior finish? It's typically used on musical ampflier cabinets, so it's gotta wear like iron and be easily cleaned. It comes in a pebbly finish, so will hide a multitude of sins. Only colors are white and black, but I've seen pics of the white tinted to various colors. I used roll-on Zolatone for the majority of the walls, but it's very expensive and custom blended for each order. My center ceiling is bright white with sparkle additive.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:46 PM   #33
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Thank you for the motivation - back at it today.

CTaulborg: Starting to think about the walls... The plastic wallpaper... Can we go over that with a primer and paint, or do we need to pull that stuff off? What kind of stripper? How to get it clean? SEM primer, then paint if we pull it off?

Wiring is out except for the trailer lights.
So, batteries will be up front. 120V in is at the back. Do I put the Boondocker power center (replacing the univolt) in back where the 120 comes in, or up front by the batteries?

Rear floor board is in! Fits well. Just need to put the perimeter bolts in now. Going to go around and replace a bunch of the bolts all of the way around the trailer - my wife has pulled a few with her hands (rusted off!)

Flooring will be floating. I've got a few high spots on the floor - ridges between plywood sheets, a couple of elevator bolts that won't budge, etc... What kind of surfacing filler would be recommended to get a smoother surface before we put down the engineered flooring? This is why I was thinking luan - plus it'll add some stiffness to the floor.

Windows... Frames - any tricks to making these look good? May just scuff, prime and paint grey. Windows with the flakes in between... Ughhh... I thought the inner pane was plexiglass and could be CAREFULLY cut / ground out. Mine are double pane glass. What do we do? Shatter out the inner pane, clean up very carefully and fill the old slot with RTV? What does it cost to replace one of these at a dealer?

The advice here has been great! Pictures coming soon.
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:33 PM   #34
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I'll attempt to answer some of your questions. I'm sure others will add better answers. I don't know much about paint. The "wall paper" is likely vinyl, at least it is in my 75 Overlander. I have to pass on this question.

1. Do I put the Boondocker power center (replacing the univolt) in back where the 120 comes in, or up front by the batteries?

It is best to have the "converter" close to the batteries. The converter runs on 120v so it needs an outlet close by. The 120v circuit breaker box should be close to where shore power enters the trailer.


2. What kind of surfacing filler would be recommended to get a smoother surface before we put down the engineered flooring? This is why I was thinking luan - plus it'll add some stiffness to the floor.

I put 3/16 plywood as an underlayment under my floating floor. It added weight, and added height. Gotta make sure doors and drawers will still open. The floor companies also make a foam type underlayment just to keep the floor quieter. I've used that too. I also got my belt sander out and tried to take down some high spots.

3. Windows with the flakes in between... Ughhh... I thought the inner pane was plexiglass and could be CAREFULLY cut / ground out. Mine are double pane glass. What do we do? Shatter out the inner pane, clean up very carefully and fill the old slot with RTV? What does it cost to replace one of these at a dealer?

Some folks do in fact carefully break the inner pain to clean up their windows. I think Airstream put some type of reflective shade film in there that failed after years in the sun. Some of the older vista windows do have a snap ring holding the inner pain in place. Those earlier windows are easier to clean up. I've never done it.

David
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:38 PM   #35
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Hi Andy,

For the walls, I believe we used some type of stripper from Home Depot, which didn't work amazing, so we did the best we could but ultimately didn't full strip it all off of ours. We then applied primer, and then paint and it came out great.

We moved all of our power to the far front, under the u-shaped dinette we put in.

We redid all of our subfloors so didn't have any high spots, but we did use a foam type "premium" underlayment (from home depot).

We also have double pane windows and have the same issue as you... We were lazy and didn't address it so we have a couple windows that look dirty between the panes. The proper way to fix is like this:

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Old 02-19-2019, 09:20 AM   #36
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We successfully painted our vinyl covered interior walls using Bondz primer and 2 coats of exterior latex paint. You need vinyl that's well adhered to the walls, and then CLEAN it with cleaner, then RINSE it, and rinse again. Our paint has been on for 7 years now, and except for a few touch ups when things being installed scraped, it's in good shape.
We had a couple of high/low spots after our subfloor was in, and used floor leveler bonding agent to level those small spots before we installed our floating cork floor.

Kay
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:31 PM   #37
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You can look at my build to see how to strip and paint . Wife did all the stripping. If you want to leave the vinyl clean with TSP and go from there . Have fun .
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:05 PM   #38
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We are having fun... Joyflea, Minnow, CTaulborg, David, thank you for the input! It's helping guide our thinking since we are all new to this.

My bride got the floor sealed - looking good for now - top surface of the plywood subfloor is done. Need to start gluing the 2" foam board to the bottom.

Got some Capt. Tolley's on this evening - snow tomorrow so hopefully she's a bit better sealed. Hit every rivet I could see in the dark and the major seams on the roof. Plan on doing that a few more times when the weather is allowable. I'll still be pulling the old vents and putting new ones - planning 2 MaxxFan 4500K vents unless someone can convince me otherwise. Also have to pull the big aerial antenna for talking to aliens - I have three of my own - 3, 4 and 7 years old that will be inside the faraday cage.

LED lighting and touch switches showed up tonight (along with backup camera, motion sensor for step lights, breaker box, etc...) Waiting on 750 feet of 14Ga 12V wiring and a Boondocker 1260PC. Plan is breaker box in the rear by the rear street side door. Boondocker up front on the street side dinette seating. Fuses for 12V power and trailer lights just forward of that. Battery(ies) front and center with the vent. Option to put 6 over the axle and give up cabinet / storage space)

Still not set one way or the other on the luan - may have to see how the floor lays down over what we've got now. 1/2" ply doesn't feel terribly solid to me in general, but I may just have to accept that.

Have a bunch of SS bolts to replace most of the perimeter bolts, going to etch/prime (NAPA 7220 or SEM etching primer) the u-channel before install. Plan to cut a bunch of 1.5"x3"x1/8" AL plates for under the frame bolts in the U-channel.

I was looking at heaters this evening - our was quite rusty. Atwood/Dometic 25kBTU is the plan. I have two vents vertically stacked on the side and no door. Is this the right heater - just leave the door off and install? Extra vent - leave in and point such that water won't get into the heater, and that we can slide the heater out without major headaches (since we'll have to replace the circuit board in < 4 years anyways)?

Wife found some IKEA cabinets she likes. As long as I can duplicate the finish on the end walls, I'll replace those with birch ply instead of particle board. Thoughts here?

We are going to try to hit the Maryland RV show this coming Saturday and learn all we can. Anyone else going to be there? We are open to all the ideas and suggestions this board can offer. If anyone is in the SE corner of PA and wants to drop by and see it, drop me a note.

Andy
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:21 AM   #39
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You might want to look at the weight of the Ikea cabinets. You might be able to lighten them up a little, if you want to install those. You will definitely have to modify them for the wall curve, but I know it's been done on these forums (successfully installing Ikea cabinets, that is).
RV shows are great places to get ideas from the Airstreams there or other trailers.

Kay
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:31 AM   #40
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Hereís a thread that used IKEA components along with those from marine applications. Worth the time reading through the restoration process end-to-end.

Contemporizing 1976 Argosy D - opinions please
http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18448
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