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Old 12-01-2019, 03:12 PM   #81
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1978 31' Sovereign
New Smyrna Beach , Florida
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Hey David

The plastic end caps in my 78 are of two different types of plastic. The front cap shattered during the removal process and was very brittle. The rear bath cap is of much stronger and much different material. I do not think it is ABS, but have no clue what it is. But the bumper repair kit you suggested adheres to it nicely.

I roughed up the surface to see it it would stick the the black plastic wheel wells and it did not adhere at all. Frankly, I have not found anything, sealant included that will adhere to plastic in the wheel wells. Im not even sure that plastic is ABS.

On the remaining cap in the pics below, Im wondering if the can be repaired with Fiberglass.

Anyway, just wanted you to know that the kit you suggested works!

Bill
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Old 12-01-2019, 08:26 PM   #82
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Hi Bill: The material differences between the front and rear end caps is a strange one for me. Airstream was making a lot of changes in the late seventies it seems. Our 76 end caps appear to be the same ABS material.

The 76 Sovereign, as well as my 75 Overlander, has a different plastic for the battery box and cover so it seems. It is very brittle, breaks like peanut brittle with very little bending. I don't have any experience with the plastic wheel wells. I do wish Airstream used a stronger material for the wheel wells back then.

Glad you got some cracks fixed in one of the end caps at least.

David
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:00 PM   #83
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1976 31' Sovereign
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If I had the caps out I would have done a proper repair. And fiberglass seems like the way to go.

The cracks I patched with the bumper repair are just that. More of a patch than a repair. Not dissimilar to repairing or covering a crack or hole in a wall... floating the bumper repair. Smoothing and blending the area around it. Pushing it in to the cracks and in to the hole I drilled along and around the crack to create a button or "rivet" to hold everything in place. It looks good for now but is not road tested and not temp swing tested. I have "poked" at it vigorously and got it to flex a bit with no ill effects.

I will be interested to hear how the fiberglass repair works.

- Cort
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:52 PM   #84
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More Floor Repair

We have added additional steel 1x2 supports under the 1/2" plywood subfloor. We have added a few elevator bolts to help hold the floor to the frame. Today we made a "splice" under the gap at the very rear of the subfloor where we scabbed in a new piece of plywood and the old bath subfloor. We used 1/8" sheet steel to cover the gap and pull the two surfaces flat to each other. We used steel as the waste water tanks are mounted in this area and we couldn't interfere with them. The steel strip with plenty of screws holding it in place provides a strong splice and strengthened the subfloor back there.

David
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:45 AM   #85
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1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
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76 Sovereign Renovation Project

Hi David and Cort! I was glad to have stumbled upon your latest project thread and look forward to following along. As usual, you are doing excellent work.

While a bit late to comment, I agree that the direction non-wheel well outriggers face doesnt matter. Also, great job reinforcing the frame and targeted areas of the surprisingly thin subfloor. My 68 has a 5/8 subfloor. New trailers are 3/4, right?

If I were adding underlayment, Id likely use the adhesive Mike suggested. Though an adhesive that remains flexible may be desirable given the flex the floor experiences as is bounces down the road. Not sure if this product is flexible. As an alternative, this product may be a good choice: http://www.titebond.com/product/adhe...c-4ede389a0377

One thing to consider before proceeding is the underlayment may conceal water leaks along the perimeter. As Im sure youve seen, the water tends to pool near the c channel and interior wall. Im wondering if adding the underlayment adjacent to this would allow water to wick between the subfloor and underlayment. This would likely be slow to dry and would promote floor rot. For this reason, Id be hesitant to do this unless the underlayment was critical. If so, Id make sure the perimeter near this area is tightly sealed and exterior seam sealing is kept up (i.e. preventing leaks)

Brian
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #86
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Hi Atomic_13: All good points. We are lucky to have you follow along with our project. Certainly the rainwater leaks at the rear of the trailer caused the floor to rot, bolts to rust, crossmembers to rust, the the body to separate from the frame. We have evidence of water leaks by the entry door, curb side front windows, behind the curbside wheel well, and curbside water heater. I believe the fiberglass insulation stays wet for many days after it gets wet. I think this is the cause of all the outrigger rust we discovered. Those have been replaced and the body channel reattached to them.

We have replaced and repaired the subfloor in these punk areas. We have also applied wood epoxy generously around the interior perimeter and seams at cross members. The epoxy soaks in quite well and seems to encapsulate the old plywood. At least it is a lot harder to poke a screwdriver through the plywood.

We haven't even looked for the source of the leaks yet, but we have sure sealed up the old subfloor. I think the adhesive and underlayment will make it difficult for water to do more damage, but not impossible. We will not use fiberglass for under subfloor insulation. At least life here in Colorado is drier than some other states I can think of. Maybe this old Sovereign will have another 40 years of life.

David
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:41 AM   #87
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David,
I had chance to catch up on your renovation. What a kind thing to do to take on a renovation like this for a friend. I love your building. It is perfect for this Colorado winter we are having. I have a south facing back yard and patio, so most of my refinish work is going on back there. You are making great progress so far. I know we have talked about it for a year or more, but we really need to get together. Maybe I can tow my Tradewind up there after the New Year, and check our your progress.

Ron
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:33 PM   #88
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Hi Ron, aka venturewest: I always enjoy meeting a fellow vintage Airstream enthusiasts. We will get together after the holidays. I'll PM you and we'll make a plan. Don't get your expectations too high. My building is full of old Sovereign interior parts. Looks like a landfill.

David
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:49 PM   #89
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We're Connected

I didn't particularly like the "one stop utility hatch" in the back of the trailer. I think Airstream started this design back in the early sixties. The shore power cord was hard wired to the breaker panel, the city water connection was 6" from the sewer connection. And the dump valves were installed with the pull handles through the subfloor. I'm not sure when Airstream changed this arrangement. Maybe when rear baths dropped in popularity.

We're striving for a little improvement. Although nothing unusual, pretty standard stuff.

We installed the shore power Furion receptacle and a city water inlet on the street side rear exterior skin. These utilities will enter the trailer under the wardrobe "false" floor. Out of sight, out of mind.

This city water inlet will be at one end of the plumbing run, and the pump will be at the other. We have the water heater, toilet, vanity sink, shower valve, outside sprayer, galley sink and the pump all to plumb together. We will push water from the city water end or the pump end. Not too hard when there is no cabinetry in the trailer.

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Old 12-11-2019, 08:03 PM   #90
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Underlayment Going Down

The original 1/2" plywood subfloor was an inadequate surface for the new floor covering. We had to lay down an underlayment plywood to smooth things out.

That is today's job. I cut the 8 pieces of plywood underlayment to fit. The end caps were the hardest of course as I had to make an accurate template. After I got all the pieces to fit, and a coat of polyurethane on them, I started gluing and stapling the plywood down. The adhesive I selected is a sticky mess, but it is working good. It is hard to position the pieces once they touch the glue, kinda like contact cement.

I'll be glad when this messy job is done. The underlayment is taking quite a bit of the flexing out of the subfloor along with our additional floor supports we welded underneath.

David
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:51 PM   #91
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More Welding

A month ago we welded new metal in the areas where we thought the frame was flexing and bent due to the rear end separation. We were disappointed that the frame still sagged when unsupported in the rear even with the body tightly attached to the new frame rear crossmember and body hold down plate.

My friend suggested more steel over the rear axle area of the axle plate and extending it to the next crossmember. Worth a try.

I bought the steel and cut it to fit. The welders were here and welded it in place. It is essentially a 3x2x1/4 thick angle iron 48" long that sits on top of the lower frame rail flange. We welded it to the lower flange, and to the axle plate on top. I have not yet taken a photo of this new piece.

Today I removed the rear frame rail jack stands to test for frame sag. The frame is supported at the rear axle area and the tongue jack in front just like it might be with the axles under it. As explained previously, the rear frame rails from the axles back are a "diving board" supported only on one end.

I measure just a 1/2" of sag over this 15 feet of rear frame rail. I feel that is acceptable considering we started with over 3" of sag and about 2" after the first welding. My friend was right.

The frame on this old Sovereign now has been repaired with new metal and rusted outriggers replaced and body secured to them. The rear end separation is no more. All is good to go.

Now we will focus on the interior.

David
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:46 PM   #92
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1968 24' Tradewind
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Good job! Sounds like the problem solving paid off. It feels good to build on a strong foundation.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:52 AM   #93
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Great job, David. You guys have cruised right through the nasty work. On to the creative part! I am excited to see what you come up with.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:59 PM   #94
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Battery Box

Gee Venturewest, I'm not very creative or artistic at all. The right side of my brain shows little activity. Your Trade Wind will be painstakingly restored. Atomic_13, now there is some real creativity. His right side brain works good.

So being a non-creative type, I made a square battery cover box today. It isolates the stinky battery from the interior of the trailer. Airstream used a thermoformed plastic cover that turned brittle as a soda cracker. It had many cracks and holes. This wood box will serve the purpose fine. It is hidden behind the stove in the galley cabinet. Thank goodness no one will see it.

David
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:45 PM   #95
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Your box looks good to me David, as does your sub floor.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:31 PM   #96
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Thanks Coloradoup: I wonder what a new plastic battery cover would sell for from an Airstream dealer. I do know the wheel well plastic covers that hold in the insulation, nothing more, are around $100 each plus shipping this big part. Ours are cracked up also and we will likely just make a simple wooden box to cover them. Not as space age, but functional. Again, no one will see them.

We are beginning to do some painting in the interior. The plastic end caps have been repaired and painted. They look much better now. Painting is a lot of work with the masking, sanding, and multiple coats.

We positioned the new step outriggers today. We cut the old ones off as they were rusty and the notch that holds the steps in the out position was quite worn. The aluminum folding steps are really quite an engineering project to get them to deploy, and then fold up underneath. The special bolts holding all the links together are fancy parts, and expensive to replace. They aren't hardware store items. I think there are 4 different kinds of bolts used in the steps.

The spacing, and squareness of the step outriggers is critical to proper function. We used wood spacers cut to the exact dimension to hold them in place for welding. I tried the steps and they fit nicely, so we should be good to go.

David
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Old 12-21-2019, 08:56 AM   #97
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I have one of the plastic battery box covers if you need it it's in fine shape.
I changed the configuration on my battery box based on what another post showed and don't need it. if you take out the filler piece on the door and turn the batteries the other way, and open up the hole a little bit you can get two batteries in there.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:36 PM   #98
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Thanks Can of Beans. I wonder if yours was a brittle as ours was. It was easy to break and had many cracks in it. We will stay with the simple wood box over the battery. Good enough for us.

David
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:46 PM   #99
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New Wheel Well Covers

The ABS plastic wheel covers were about like the battery cover. This old plastic age hardens and is easy to crack. Ours were not in very good shape at all.

We could order replacements at about $100 each. I imagine shipping costs would be quite significant on a part that big. So we decided just to make a simple wheel well cover out of wood. This cover is certainly not a structural member of the Airstream. It just holds a little insulation in place over the real wheel well. It is not a cosmetic part as it is hidden under the beds and cabinets.

We framed around the wheel well, then installed a bit of insulation, and finally covered it all up with quarter inch plywood. It is certainly stronger than the plastic cover, but likewise it is heavier and took time to make. We intend to paint them.

Take a look...

David
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Old 12-25-2019, 08:37 PM   #100
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Will The Old Tanks Fit?

I've been a bit concerned about using the old waste water tanks. We have modified the frame with a new rear cross member. I do not want to add any penetrations in the rear most subfloor. The old system had penetrations for low point drains, dump valves, vent pipes, drain pipes and the shower trap. All these holes weaken the subfloor and provide more open edges for moisture absorption. We are going a different route.

The old tank pan was quite rusted at the seam where it was attached to the rear cross member.

So we cut the rusted end off the pan. The rest of it is good enough. It must hold the weight of full waste water tanks. We are adding a bolt up bottom support for extra strength and ease of maintenance.

I also will add two additional drain input ports to the grey tank. I will plumb the galley sink and vanity sink drains to the rear top surface of the grey tank and use grommets for a tight connection. The grey tank vent line will also be in this area. We can do this under the tub support platform. I think it is best to drain water into the far end of the tank and drain water out the other end.

It looks like we will be able to mount up the old tanks, and provide pretty easy unbolt access to them should trouble arise.

Whew!

David
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