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Old 11-01-2019, 06:11 PM   #41
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1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
1969 21' Globetrotter
Conifer , Colorado
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Bath Floor Rot Out

I made a command decision and cut out the bath rear floor rot. We need to replace this rotted floor with something that has the strength to connect between frame and body.

The rear most floor rot was caused by leaks into the end cut of the plywood. There is also several penetrations of this section of floor for the dump valves, shower trap, gray tank drains and vents, low point drains, shore power cord, and 120v ground wire. There ain't much 1/2" plywood left. We will try to eliminate as many of the penetrations as we can.

Interesting find. This 45 degree ABS 1 1/2" elbow was leaking galley sink water on its way to the grey tank. The leak is hidden under and behind the tub. The leak was caused by a defect molding runner used to fill the mold with molten plastic 43 years ago. It might have been good when it left the factory, but it opened up later. Anyway, it caused a big hole in the subfloor.

We plan on using white oak to make the repairs to this important area of the trailer.

David
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:35 PM   #42
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David and Cort, I really really enjoyed today's installment. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:54 PM   #43
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On the Level

Thanks Alumaholic: There's nothing like a photo of smelly rotted plywood subfloor to get the juices flowing in a vintage Airstream enthusiasts. So exciting.

Today we had some success. We decided we would just try to use the tongue jack and trailer weight to get the frame rails level and parallel to the concrete floor. We leveled the frame rails from the axle plate to the A frame demonstrated by many measurements from floor to frame rail. Then we jacked up the rear of the frame rails until they too were measuring about the same from the floor to frame rail at the rear as the front of the trailer. With the trailer well supported, we checked the interior subfloor from the front of the trailer to the rear bath it is was darn good! No more walking "downhill" to the rear bath. Success!!!

We now can measure and make our new rear cross member, subfloor repair pieces, body plate and repaired c channel at the rear of the trailer. Then we will bolt it tight to the frame rails. We guarantee it will pass the bounce test.

We had a good session with our mobile welder crew and they will weld in the necessary new steel and outriggers and floor supports and rear cross members to maintain our tight and level position. We will weld when we are ready and the outriggers get here.

This old Sovereign will be straight and tight once again. Hooray.

David
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:55 AM   #44
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I know everyone does things differently, but, we replaced our black water tank with a larger grey water tank. We did away with the black water by using a composting toilet. It has really worked out well and with NO smell. My wife is hard to impress, even she is pleased with it. I looked for information, but did not find much on replacing the fiberglass insulation under the floor. I bought a spray foam kit at Menards and foamed the underside of the floor. Not only does it insulate, but it adds a lot of strength to the floor, and it seals up the plywood underneath. We even did above the water tank, just a lite coating so as to not interfere with putting the tank back in place. You do not smell the old odor, and the foam is put on not overly thick so there is NO foam odor. Our bottom cover to protect the tank was rusting really bad, so I made the new cover plate out of aluminum. (maybe 1/8th inch) The plate that bolts up in place in the middle of the tank we used a thicker piece of aluminum. A couple thousand miles later everything looks great. Good Luck!!
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:02 AM   #45
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[QUOTE=dbj216;2304160]Thanks Alumaholic: There's nothing like a photo of smelly rotted plywood subfloor to get the juices flowing in a vintage Airstream enthusiasts. So exciting.

Ah yes brings back memories of my reno
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:39 PM   #46
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Thanks for your input Tim C. I've read about spray foam insulation. I think Airstream did this for a year or two back in about 1968. Many homes nowadays have it in there somewhere. I use rigid foam board. I won't use fiberglass batting due to the moisture retention of the stuff.

David
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:48 PM   #47
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Field Dress an Airstream

We follow the many. We removed a lot of cabinetry out of the Sovereign today. Gut it they say. like hunting deer. Such fun and so easy to do. Some of it we will rebuild (galley cabinets) and some of it we replace with better ideas. It will take ten times longer to rebuild it and put it back. We will get it done.

We also did some measuring and getting ready to make the new parts for the rear end. We hope to get this done this week.

Slow progress is better than no progress.

David
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:02 PM   #48
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Galley and Fridge Cabinets Out

We have removed the last of the cabinetry. We also removed the bulkhead walls separating the galley from the bedroom. Maybe due to shot axles, maybe due to rear end separation, we found most parts were very loose. We will get everything solid again as we rebuild this old Sovereign.

Airstream apparently created a new kind of "hollow wood" for their cabinets. It is two pieces of near 1/8" plywood with spacers between them. It appears to be 1/2" wood, but it is not. A lot of work to save some weight seems to me. My Overlander had 1/4" plywood with wood grain laminate, which seemed to be in pretty good shape. Airstream also changed their laminate process as this trailer has a vinyl material glued to the plywood. It has not worn very well through the years. It is coming off in sheets on the bulkhead walls and wardrobe walls. See photo

David
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:30 PM   #49
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interior breakdown

Love the pictures and progress! in our own interior tear-down, we've decided to yank everything out except the shower area (the bath will be refinished as well). The difference in interior construction is major between our 66 and 76. The 66 was real wood cabinetry that could be refinished/restored with very good results. the 76 is very light construction, mostly metal and Formica..still good after all these years, but not what we want to put back in. we're planning on taking this 76 disco-machine and making it ultra modern...something swanky that Ralph Lauren would be proud of (wink). Going to build some stuff...what an understatement.... what doesn't get made, will be bought from IKEA. The 76 also has some floor rot in the front and back that will be taken care of this winter. planning on replacing the front wood flooring al the way to the kitchen and the back last sheet in the bedroom (the bath is in the middle). You are blessed to have such an excellent workspace!!! I purchased an inexpensive RV cover from Amazon that's keeping the weather at bay. any tips you can share on replacing the flooring and shoring up the frame?

I'll post some pics of both airstreams soon. (before and after pics)
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:02 PM   #50
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AlmumSloop: Stay tuned. We have had consultations with our mobile welder. Our rear half of the frame sags about 2". He made recommendations for the frame repair.

We were able to jack it back level. Just today I hauled home the needed steel. We will make the repair parts this coming week that will be welded in place soon. I also hauled home some marine plywood for the rear most subfloor repair.

We also have replacement outriggers on order.

Follow along and maybe we will give you some ideas and maybe you can help us out.

David
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:12 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
We were able to jack it back level. Just today I hauled home the needed steel. We will make the repair parts this coming week that will be welded in place soon.
David, You got me thinking, when you make the repair, should the rear be level or should it be even a little high? The thought being that with a little weight, it would sag back to level. On my Safari, I went for level, but its a lot shorter. - Mark
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:00 PM   #52
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I would recommend dead level.
Afterall, the frame is suspended from the monocot shell.
(This is why we never add tool boxes and generator storage on the rear bumper)
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:07 PM   #53
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New Rear Body Mount

Our welder suggest we have the rear of the frame jacked up a bit before welding. We know it may droop a bit after welding. I might add we will have the rear end separation repaired before welding. The new rear cross member, the new rear subfloor plywood repair, the new rear body mount and the new rear "c channel" will be in place and bolted up tight before we weld. Having these structural members in place will tie the two frame rails back to their supporting structure, the aluminum shell. Then we will weld the "stiffeners" in place to maintain the frame rail shape and position.

I often say I envision the Airstream structure as a cable suspension bridge. We have a support foundation, the axles. We have a roadway, the frame. And we have the cables holding the roadway up, the aluminum shell. If the roadway becomes detached from the cables, it will sag.

I picked up the new rear body mount. Actually, this piece doesn't have much of a job, unlike the front body mount. It is firmly bolted between the rear most frame cross member and the c channel that is the base of the body. But there is only one row of rivets under the rear cargo door from the exterior skin to this rear body mount. It doesn't support much of the body.

Thinking that, we made it out of 1/8" aluminum sheet instead of steel. We made it 48" long so it will be under the two rear formers that the rear window and rear cargo door are riveted to. The original steel one was about 32" long.
I think having this piece made of aluminum instead of steel will help reduce corrosion in the rear of the trailer. And I think connecting it to the rear body formers will add some support for the rear body. Maybe I will make the trailer too rigid and we will get exterior skin cracks propagating all over the place. Hope not.

I measured the angle of the rear body mount at 75 degrees. It looks and fits pretty good.

David
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Old 11-09-2019, 03:22 PM   #54
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David

I used a combination of steel and aluminum plate to secure the ass-end of Faith's shell. The hold down plate design under the rear compartment door was wanting.

When my frame was made we used boxed steel for the main beams rather than "C" channel. It stiffened up the back significantly. I recognize that I have deviated from the AS design. I hope it will perform as I expect.

It is fund to see you tear into a Sovereign. I wish you had begun I year ago, it would have made my project a little easier looking over your shoulder.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:17 PM   #55
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I think we are helping each other. Renovating these old trailers is a fun project and one that gets confusing at times. Sharing approaches and techniques really helps.

We took advantage of a warm day and cleaned very dirty parts from the Sovereign. The power washer made the tanks and the backside of the bathroom plastics cleaner for sure. We cleaned the furnace ducts and the fresh water holding pan too.

We filled the grey water tank with water and let it set for an hour. No leaks discovered. We have to close off all the openings and test the tank again as it was leaking somewhere.

We also did some extensive cleaning of interior walls behind the cabinets. They were really, really dirty. A very major parts of renovating an old Airstream is de-rusting and cleaning. That way you can see what needs repaired.

We will now begin making frame repair parts and mounting them in the correct position for our welder.

Every day a little progress.

David
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:41 PM   #56
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I would agree with your welder to support the frame a little above level prior to the frame repairs, but I'm not sure (IMO) that leveling the frame when attaching the shell is a good idea.

If you support the frame (at the rear) to level and attach the shell, when the supports are removed you're placing a pre-load on the frame/shell attachment. Once the frame repairs are done, whatever arch (non-level) is in the frame is its natural state. Expecting the shell to maintain the frame to a level shape just doesn't seem logical to me, especially with the forces exerted when traveling.
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:43 AM   #57
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David,



I am going to follow this build even though I have a '75 Overlander because you are giving me some additional pictures and/or angles of things that will help me on my trailer also. Anyone who has worked on anything, an Airstream, a car, anything, you take a bunch of pictures on disassembly thinking you have every possible item and angle you need and you always find some little area you didnt realize you needed a picture of when you were disassembling.


I am no expert on Airstreams, but to answer your question on the outriggers, I see absolutely no reason why the outriggers have to be "sided", other than the special slotted ones for the step and probably the ones front and back of the wheel well. As you pondered earlier, they are for structural support of the shell, and very secondarily, to shape the curve of the lower wraps. Their primary function is supporting the shell and other than at the wheel wells and those step pieces, I dont see why it matters which direction the "flap" points.


I very much like your idea of widening the body mount, and I think the fact that you made it out of aluminum and will "anchor" it to the forming ribs will not be a problem with cracks since you are fixing the source of stress on that area, which is the body separation and weak frame.


I look forward to "stealing" as many ideas from you as possible, so consider yourself warned!!


Brian
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:20 PM   #58
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Hi 57Vintage: I want to assemble all the rear end body mount parts before welding so they will fit up properly, and help hold the frame rails parallel and at the same height. We will leave all supports in place during the welding. You bet there is stress put on the frame rails as we heat them and attach additional stiffeners. I have measured the frame rails to floor in the same 4 places on both sides. The axle mounting area is my "datum". We are within about 3/4" parallel over about a 27 foot span. Not too shabby in my view, considering we were about 2 1/2" sag in the rear before we started. So I will assemble the rear body mount parts, but leave the supports in place until the frame is welded. And actually the whole winter while we work on it both underneath and inside.

Kartwheels68: Steal shamelessly. That is what this Airstream Knowledge Base is all about. One guy's approach may not work for another, or may solve a problem for another. The outriggers are typically extensions of the center cross members. In some cases I will offset about an inch or two for various reasons. Thanks for your review. I see no particular problem doing this. Our body mount will extend a bit and rest on the bottom inside of the rear cargo door frame. This will add support. We will simply then attach the exterior skin below the cargo door to the body mount.

I have a 75 Overlander twin bed too. It is sitting outside this winter. Leak test? I think they are nice sized trailers for extended traveling. My Overlander is all ready to go after the renovation. It ain't spectacular, but it is solid and works good.

David
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:28 PM   #59
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Starting Re-assembly

I actually made one of dozens of new parts for this Sovereign. I have cut and drilled a new rear cross member. It is exactly the same length as the distance between the axles at 61 1/8". We also needed to straighten the frame rails so they are on center to the tongue jack. My friend noticed they didn't appear well spaced under the body. For some reason they were about 2" bent toward the street side. Weird things happen when the frame isn't attached to the body for a period of time. So we pulled them on center and have drilled bolt holes.

We have also fitted the new aluminum body mount plate. It seems to fit quite well. Now we need to make replacement marine plywood patches and get them sealed and positioned. Not as easy as it sounds.

David
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:58 PM   #60
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Look Ma No Holes

We made plywood patches for the holes in the bath floor at the rear where many rot out. This is a time consuming process. Airstream built the 76 and later trailers with 1/2" thick plywood. I guess they thought the stronger frame would compensate. The thinner plywood does make the patches easier to make.

Just to note the frame sag at the rear does make patching the floor easier too. I let the frame rails sag back like they were which opened up a nice gap between frame and body channel. I could slide the plywood in place easier.

I also fitted the new body plate on top of the new plywood. It fits good. The new, bigger body plate slides under the rear vertical formers on each side of the cargo door and rear window. We will attach the formers to the body plate making a stronger rear end attachment in my view.

Then we will put the new c channel on top of the body plate and bolt it all down to the new rear cross member. We will do this after the welding is done.

We will epoxy coat the new plywood and then start cutting and drilling steel for the frame repair parts. We hope to weld the frame next week.

David
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