1978 Sovereign Frame off

[HiHoAgRV]

Parallel. Each gets hooked to the same pair of wires.
Kinda like cross ties (each sensor) on a railroad (rails are the 2 main wires)

[wcronin4]

It’s funny how your priorities can be so quickly changed by something you didn’t anticipate. Keep that thought.
Our house is a 1,000’ from the ocean, in a region known for high humidity and its fair share of onshore winds. Our home is cottage size and the days of having a 1,000 square foot shop are behind me. My driveway is my workshop, and with it, all the elements with which I must contend.
When we had the frame made, we used copious amounts of quality paint on the frame. The axles were new and I assumed that the paint I saw on them was of the same quality. You guessed it. BEEEEEP. So I was merrily working away on sealing windows and penetrations through the outer skin, putting off the on-your-back work of side, belly and banananana pans for a little cooler weather. I had a tire go flat (valve stem was leaking), which forced me to look at the frame on the side that faces the ocean. The new frame was corroding in spots and the Dexter axles looked like salt air had been feasting on the metal. 911.
Needless to say, I have now working on installing all the side and banana panels beginning with the east facing side. And I have become anal about sealing up the bottom, applying several new layers of paint to exposed frame parts and you can see in the pic below covering the wheel wells to cut down on the salt air there.

It has taken several days to do the driver side, which I finished today. Tomorrow I start on the curbside or west side. I already have the belly pan from the front to the axles installed. From the axles to the rear bumper, I had made significant changes to the frame by boxing in the two storage tanks. This will required significant custom fitting of belly pans. That will take a week by itself.
But on the curbside, I having been eyeing the Airstream steps trying to decide if I am going to keep them or remove them. Why you ask? Because, in the old frame, the steps were flopping around in the rusted out outriggers that frame it. Upon inspection today, because the hardware and moving parts of the step scrap against the thin outrigger metal constantly exposing the outriggers to corrosion.


Add to that, there is no way to seal any of this up. Given where we live, if I leave the steps in, within a year or two, without constant attention, the outriggers will be a rusted mess. Thus my reason for wanting to eliminate them. In the dry climate of Colorado, David, they would be fine. I am curious if anyone else had to deal with this issue?
I have been following Colorado David’s remedy for water intrusion at the rear of the trailer. He extended the sheet aluminum down below the beltline to force water away from the subfloor. I shamelessly copied him, although mine will retain the belt trim around the bottom and will eventually be painted black like the side pans and banana panels. I have gone to the extreme of using sealant on every buck rivet and the seam. So far, after several rains, it has succeeded in diverting the water away from the floor.
More later.

[dbj216]

I remember doing accelerated paint testing in controlled "salt chambers" at work. Maybe you live in such a salt chamber. It is certainly true the green and lush southeast trailers have more corrosion problems than dry sandy southwest ones do. Colorado is quite dry and sunny, so moisture is less of a concern in my Overlander. Although the thing is covered with snow and ice right now.

It doesn't surprise that the Dexter axle paint is showing rust. Axles are out of sight and out of mind. Not exactly a cosmetic part. I wouldn't worry about surface rust on the axles. However, moisture, rot and rust are a never ending battles for us Airstream owners.

Take a look at the brake assembly from this 76 Sovereign I'm working on. All rusty. My friend says the brakes still worked fine.

David

[wcronin4]

My AS steps

As I mentioned in a previous post, my AS steps are not working properly, are warping the outriggers and don’t stow away properly.

I was going to abandon them, but I like them, and want to do everything I can to retain them.

I took a bunch of measurements and I believe the outriggers that support the steps are too wide by 1/2 to 3/4”.

Just as a sanity check could I ask someone with a sovereign to measure the distance between the outriggers that support the step inside to inside. My own measurements are 22” inside to inside and the step structure is 21 1/4” wide.

Before I start trying to figure out how to fix it, I would like to make sure of my measurements.

Pics of the step folded up and the outriggers that support them are below

Thanks

Bill

[dbj216]

Hi Bill: I'll measure ours tomorrow. Our steps are also a bit worse for wear. The front outrigger is not hung properly. And it has a significantly worn slot. We are thinking of just replacing this outrigger. However, the step "stay up" mechanism is involved. We also have worn bolts that we need to replace.

It will be quite a project.

David

[wcronin4]

Yesterday, I finished installing the side and banana panels aft of the curbside wheel well.

I had to install L brackets on the frame to support the side pans since I had changed the design of the frame aft of the axles to accommodate the larger wastewater tanks.

With that done, I could install the rub-strip, which gave a finished look to the flashing I added under the rear compartment door and the rear quarter.


As I said yesterday, I held up going further with installing the side panels because of the questions I raised about the step and, whether to try to save it or cover it over. In the post previous, I expressed frustration that the step, when extended was not level and sloped away from the camper. That it didn’t slide properly and was distorting the outrigger and I was concerned about corrosion issues.
Today, I took several measurements and determined that the outriggers, when welded in, were not welded perpendicular and square to the frame. From the attaching point on the frame, the outriggers move away from one another by a little more than ¾” to 1”. Add to that that my pivot pins and hinge pins are either very worn or broken and you have a recipe for issues.


I decided I wanted to retain the stairs and figure out how make them work.
So I ordered the parts I needed from Out of Doors Mart. It is stupid how expensive these pins are. But like IANSK said one time, “Airstream is a French word for expensive.”
The step is challenging to work on with the side pans installed, so I put that project on hold until I get the steps back together.
Tomorrow, I’ll work on the rear belly pans and wastewater tank covers while I wait.

[Iansk]

Hey Bill,

For corrosion issues you may want to try CorrosionX. They make two formulas and I use them both. The stuff is magic in a can. I sprayed down the axles on my ‘64 Silver Streak with the heavy duty blue can stuff 5 years ago and the metal still looks amazing. I use the regular red can stuff on everything else. Everything.

Glad to see you’re making progress.

Ian

[dbj216]

I Bill: I measured my "step box" and step today. We are planning to replace the forward, or right side step outrigger as the slot is quite worn. Here is the measurements I got with my laser measurement device. (Better than a tape measure.)

Distance between outriggers at the top link hole = 21 11/16"
Distance between outriggers at the bottom link hole = 21 11/16"
Distance between outriggers at the frame rail welds = 21 9/16"

Overall width of the aluminum step, links folded = 21 8/16"

The steps are narrower than the step box, but not by much. Our "cam follower" bolts that go into the outrigger slots are warn. And some of the link pivot bolts are also warn. The cost of these bolts is expensive as they are flat heads and thread into each other. Pretty fancy fasteners seems to me.

Hope my measurements help you with your step overhaul.

David

[wcronin4]

Originally Posted by Iansk

Hey Bill,

For corrosion issues you may want to try CorrosionX. They make two formulas and I use them both. The stuff is magic in a can. I sprayed down the axles on my ‘64 Silver Streak with the heavy duty blue can stuff 5 years ago and the metal still looks amazing. I use the regular red can stuff on everything else. Everything.

Glad to see you’re making progress.

Ian

Hey Ian. Good to hear from you. I have been reading about CorrosionX and how great the stuff is. But now that I know that it has the Ian stamp of approval I’m going to order some. I’ve read that folks wipe their whole rig down with it.

Bill

[wcronin4]

Originally Posted by dbj216

I Bill: I measured my "step box" and step today. We are planning to replace the forward, or right side step outrigger as the slot is quite worn. Here is the measurements I got with my laser measurement device. (Better than a tape measure.)

Distance between outriggers at the top link hole = 21 11/16"
Distance between outriggers at the bottom link hole = 21 11/16"
Distance between outriggers at the frame rail welds = 21 9/16"

Overall width of the aluminum step, links folded = 21 8/16"

The steps are narrower than the step box, but not by much. Our "cam follower" bolts that go into the outrigger slots are warn. And some of the link pivot bolts are also warn. The cost of these bolts is expensive as they are flat heads and thread into each other. Pretty fancy fasteners seems to me.

Hope my measurements help you with your step overhaul.

David

Thanks for this,David. It is clear that the welder set my step outriggers further apart than they should be. And as I said in my post, it was caused by setting them out of square. After I get my new step parts, I’m going to give it another try.

Bill

[wcronin4]

This past week hasn’t gone so well. I started working underneath the AS getting ready to install the aft belly pan when I decided to tackle the lack of a drain plug for the fresh water tank. I was screwing in a 1 1/2” fitting in the the tank’s drain plug when I noticed a crack in the spin-weld around the fitting. A quick water test confirmed the significant leak.

Before I removed the tank, when I pulled the shell off, I tested the tank and there were no leaks. It must have gotten damaged in storage or when I installed the fitting - which I only hand tightened - the weld failed.

So the tank has to come out, and I am hoping it can be repaired. Other than this snafu, the tank is in decent shape so I’m optimistic someone somewhere can repair it.

I’m grateful I found it now, rather than on a maiden voyage.

Bill

[wcronin4]

Well, more challenging news. The forward axle mount is sitting on top of the fresh water tank cover flange.



The rear axle isn’t a problem because someone has cut away the tank cover flange so that it won’t interfere.

Although I hate the thought of having to lower the axle to free the tank, I’m not seeing an alternative. It would be nice to cut the flange away from the axle mount, but, there isn’t enough room for a cutoff tool or a reciprocal tool.

The other alternative would be to try to repair the tank in place. Here is a pic of the fitting. The crack is right around the flange on the spin weld fitting.



Have to sleep on this one.

Bill

[dbj216]

I believe the tank can be repaired in place. Polyethylene is "weld-able". Inca Plastics and others sell tank repair kits. The process is a little like brazing. I'm sure the internet has video and other advice on how to do it. I've seen it done and it doesn't appear too difficult. Essentially you are using a heat source like a soldering iron and bringing both the fitting and tank wall to the melting point, and then feeding in some additional poly with a stick. Let the material flow into the crack. Let it cool, and then test it.

You can do it and save yourself a lot of work.

David

[wcronin4]

David, so the water tank is polyethylene?

Bill

[wcronin4]

In the clear light of a new day, I crawled underneath Faith to examine more closely the crack in the main water tank. In the pic below you can see the crack around the fitting.



Actually the crack runs halfway around the fitting. After I cleaned it up, I agree with David that welding it may be the best solution. Of course I’ve never done that before. But hey, for everything there is a first time.

So I ordered a repair kit and polyethylene welding rods and set the tank aside waiting on the kit and moved on to other projects.

Bill

[wcronin4]

I a previous post, I am debating with myself regarding removing the steps and covering them over. One of the outriggers was warped, the steps did not operate smoothly and the only thing that worked well was the rusted forming in the channel that the step glides in.

So I ordered and replaced the four main pivot bolts, straightened out the outriggers, and was able to close the too wide apart outriggers by judiciously bending them. It was incredible how the new pivot bolts took much of the play out of the steps. I used lithium grease on the channels that the steps struts slide in to keep rust from forming.

The steps now operate as they should. Another crisis averted.

I had to stop putting the side pans and curbside front banana panel on until I had the step resolved. Now that can be completed tomorrow or Monday.

Still unresolved is leak in the water tank. I received my Polyvance plastic welding kit, and have been practicing with it trying to develop of little skill before I begin work on Faith's tank. There are not many things that intimidate me, but this is one of them.

And finally, ran out of belly pan aluminum, which came in today. So this coming week, will be all underneath work. I am looking forward to getting past this phase.

[dbj216]

Very good repair / improvement with the folding steps. It sounds like the new bolts made a big difference. We need to do that with our trailer.

I believe you can weld that plastic and repair the tank with no problems. I also believe you will not like the belly pan project.

You are making Faith a better Airstream. These things add up to a big improvement.

David

[wcronin4]

Today was a very productive day. We Installed side pans and banana panels forward of the axle on curbside,

The side pans are an excellent example of why you save everything. The picture below shows one of the old side pans. You can see it is roached out with corrosion. And this one was one of the better ones.



As bad as it was, it still made an excellent template. Trying to recreate these pans without the old ones would have been a nightmare.

Here are two pics of the pans installed today.




Once I get the belt trim installed, I will be done with all the belly, side and banana panels forward of the axle.

The side and banana panels aft of the axles are done. Belly pans aft of the axle are coming up this week

The weather today was Florida at its best. We had mid-seventies, no humidity and cloudless sky. Beautiful.

[dbj216]

I believe that dog gone fiberglass insulation is a major reason for rusted outriggers and corrosion in the aluminum wraps. Sure, trailer leaks are the root cause, but holding that moisture for a long period of time sure doesn't help.

We gotta do the same thing to our Sovereign come next spring. Having the old parts as templates is very important, and saves a bunch of time as you mentioned. Wrapping them around the outriggers isn't the easiest thing. I used a floor jack and a 2x4 to hold them up while I drilled and riveted.

How did you wrap and hold in place?

David

[wcronin4]

David

On the wrap or side pans - I installed the belly pan first in front of the axles, but only riveted it to the cross members leaving the belly pan unfastened to the main rails.

When I installed the side pans, I taped them in place, adjusted for fit then used clecoes to fasten the side pan to the body. Then I rolled the pan underneath and slid it between the belly pan and main rail. Once the side pan was sandwiched between the belly pan and the frame it stayed put.

The banana pans were the last to be installed.

Hope that helps!

Bill