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Old 06-24-2017, 12:40 PM   #1
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1983 27' International
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Sovereign International..what do I have?

Hi folks. picking up a TT next week. owner has yet to find title but will by then- currently out of town on business. I'm preparing tow vehicle, ect. I'm towing home with 1-ton gmc with class 5 hitch. My hopes were later to tow it with a 13 Durango with the Hemi.. but not sure can now. the TT says manufacture date 7/10/77.. but emblems say Sovereign and also International. my data doesn't show a 77 or 78 international sovereign? does show 80. I'm trying to determine length and towable weight. tag says 3200 front axle/3200 rear axle and 7200 GVWR. I think the body was either 26 or27 ft (grandson helped) ..but not sure.. not including bumper/tounge- any clue to what year it actually is considered? I have the chart that shows the info if can determine year.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:04 PM   #2
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I have a 78. There should be a tag near the tongue on the street side. there is also a tag with the build code and production number by the door. I'm in town right now but can get you the numbers you need later from the owners manual. Let me know. We use a GMC Yukon to pull and it works great.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:23 PM   #3
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Hi

How far will you be towing the AS? Do you have good reason to believe it is in street capable condition? Five or ten miles down the street is sort of a non issue, unless something massive is wrong. 600 miles cross country on interstates is a completely different thing. Regardless of age, there can be gotcha's with any trailer. The odds do tilt a bit against you at the "four decades" point

Stay safe !

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Old 06-24-2017, 01:38 PM   #4
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I would think a Durango with a Hemi would be capable but would it be a good choice? Depends on a lot variables. How far you will tow, how hilly, etc. I tow a 68 Trade Wind which weighs 4200 (on CAT scale) ready for camping with a 2001 Tundra and I am well within limits. I would not want a longer trailer even if weight were not an issue. The Durango and the old style Tundra have about the same frame size. I think a bigger truck with a bigger footprint would be a better choice to tow a Sovereign. The Durango may have enough power but stability is also a key consideration. Of course, a quality hitch, properly set up makes all the difference. I'm going to get a full size Tundra before a long western trip next year.
Also, Airstream length is measured from the front edge of the hitch to the back of the rear bumper. I think Sovereigns were considered 30 or 31 footers.
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:38 PM   #5
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1983 27' International
Brooklyn , Wisconsin
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thanks.. more info

I went back to get more info. It does measure 30/31 ft. bigger than I wanted but for 6G- It is a good deal. The one side has a sovereign 'land yacht 'badge .. but other side I see a 'international' emblem? The GVWR is actually 7100 @ 3200 on front axle and 3200 on rear. The VIN I think is what I found on two different plates. (none on tounge) top numbers are:K-157 GG ...and the lower numbers that is on 2 places is on two plates says: I31-T7J-1951
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:46 PM   #6
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1983 27' International
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Bob- I re-looked at it. says International on one side and land yacht on other- both say sovereign. measures 31ft and think VIN is: I31-T7J-1951 (built 10/26/76) - will be towing 15 miles home w/ 1 ton gmc with 350 vortec and class 4..maybe 5 (big) hitch. guess maybe too much for Hemi Durango? the GVWR is 7100 @ 3200 per axle. not sure dry weight as not sure what exacky I have or year. thinking 77?
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:54 PM   #7
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1978 31' Sovereign
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I have a 78. There should be a tag near the tongue on the street side. there is also a tag with the build code and production number by the door. I'm in town right now but can get you the numbers you need later from the owners manual. Let me know. We use a GMC Yukon to pull and it works great.
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:00 PM   #8
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You have an International 31 ft. rear bath twin, 1977 built at Jackson, number 1951 off the assembly line. The 1 ton truck is the minimum you need to tow that rig comfortably without worries.!!!!. I know there will be a ton of " Well I pull mine with ____ " fill in the blank but if you want a relaxing no worries pulling experience go bigger than specs tell you you can pull with.
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by wahya View Post
You have an International 31 ft. rear bath twin, 1977 built at Jackson, number 1951 off the assembly line. The 1 ton truck is the minimum you need to tow that rig comfortably without worries.!!!!. I know there will be a ton of " Well I pull mine with ____ " fill in the blank but if you want a relaxing no worries pulling experience go bigger than specs tell you you can pull with.
Why not get semi tractor to pull per your thinking of 1 ton not big enough?
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:27 PM   #10
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Why not get semi tractor to pull per your thinking of 1 ton not big enough?
I knew there would be one of those. Real world experience VS. book smart.
.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by wahya View Post
I knew there would be one of those. Real world experience VS. book smart.
.
You made the statement about a 1 ton being the minimum to tow this particular airstream, comfortably. For you, that is probably true. 31' 70's Airstream's are being comfortably towed all around the country with 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton tow vehicles. Your opinion and real world experience are yours to have, hold and cherish.

The fact of the matter is that a properly equipped vehicle with a properly set up hitch, towing a trailer that is within the capacity of the the vehicle has been happening since... I guess the 70's. Be it a 1/2 ton or a school bus or even a car.

I wonder what you would have to have to tow a 32' trailer with?

To the OP, almost any vehicle can pull a trailer, but stopping and also handling at freeway speeds are really the issue. Best of luck in your endeavors...


Ian

F650 SuperDuty Cummings Turbo diesel/gas Hybrid towing a gutted and modified 10' Bambi...
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:37 AM   #12
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Iansk says "F650 SuperDuty Cummings Turbo diesel/gas Hybrid towing a gutted and modified 10' Bambi.". NOW THAT WOULD BE ONE COMFORTABLE DRIVING EXPERIENCE. So glad you understand reality vs book smart.
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:02 AM   #13
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Hi

Ok, so now that the trailer has been reasonably identified, dig into the data on that trailer. It's going to have a "dry weight" and a "fully loaded weight". You may or may not ever hit the fully loaded weight. It will also have a weight it puts on the tongue of the trailer. You can take it over to a CAT scale and verify all the numbers for very little money.

Will you gut the trailer or just do needed repairs? That decision will impact how much the original weights relate to your towing. Have any mods been done already? Same issue ...

There is enormous debate about manufacturer's numbers being important. I believe they are, others strongly advocate ignoring them. Gross combined vehicle weight is trailer + tow + all everything loaded in each. It's rare to see this be an issue, but it's worth checking. Towing capacity is next up, it's the weight of the trailer in the configuration you will be pulling it. If your 7,000 lb max trailer never ever is loaded past 6,000 lb - then use 6,000 lb. The one that usually gets people (and elicits the most exciting debates) is payload. There is a sticker on the TV that states what it's payload is. It includes an arbitrary weight for some number of passengers. Multiply the passengers by whatever bogus number the manufacturer thinks a passenger weighs. Add that to the payload on the sticker and you have the real payload. Everything you will have in the TV (including passenger / driver) counts against payload. The load the tongue of the trailer puts on the TV also counts. Minor things like hitch weight also get in there.

If your AS will be mostly a stationary "small home", I'm not sure the whole TV debate matters a whole lot. Moving a trailer 20 miles once a year is not a super big deal. Pulling a big trailer 3K miles a trip times five mountain trips a year is a very different thing. In either case I would run through all the numbers for your rig. Only make a decision *after* you have seen how they stack up.

If you think this whole debate is fun so far ... wait until the topic of "which hitch" comes up

Bob
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:36 AM   #14
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1978 31' Excella 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertime View Post
Hi folks. picking up a TT next week. owner has yet to find title but will by then- currently out of town on business. I'm preparing tow vehicle, ect. I'm towing home with 1-ton gmc with class 5 hitch. My hopes were later to tow it with a 13 Durango with the Hemi.. but not sure can now. the TT says manufacture date 7/10/77.. but emblems say Sovereign and also International. my data doesn't show a 77 or 78 international sovereign? does show 80. I'm trying to determine length and towable weight. tag says 3200 front axle/3200 rear axle and 7200 GVWR. I think the body was either 26 or27 ft (grandson helped) ..but not sure.. not including bumper/tounge- any clue to what year it actually is considered? I have the chart that shows the info if can determine year.
Silvertime. I towed my 31' to Yukon and back with my 13 year old GMC Sierra had no trouble at all now I have 2014 GMC Sierra and it tows it even better and i get good milage.
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:26 AM   #15
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1983 27' International
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thanks Bev1940..

I plan on towing it home with my 1 ton sierra work truck. it is a 2000 yr. I've towed my skid steer on a 14 ft trailer and I think that is close to the same weight..maybe even bit heavier. But.. my actual TV would be a Hemi Durango- that is where I think I might be pushing it. says can tow 7200 (max) and the dry weight of the camper is I think 5070 lbs. so as it sits I imagine 6000 ilbs (with contents) - I'm hoping if I do use Durango I'll add air bags in rear. (I don't have load leveling shocks)- but I will use a weight distribution hitch. I may look into buying a TV. can't afford a lot- maybe 10-15G.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahya View Post
Iansk says "F650 SuperDuty Cummings Turbo diesel/gas Hybrid towing a gutted and modified 10' Bambi.". NOW THAT WOULD BE ONE COMFORTABLE DRIVING EXPERIENCE. So glad you understand reality vs book smart.
I guess you didn't smell what I was cooking...

Or picking up what I was putting down.

Oh well.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvertime View Post
I plan on towing it home with my 1 ton sierra work truck. it is a 2000 yr. I've towed my skid steer on a 14 ft trailer and I think that is close to the same weight..maybe even bit heavier. But.. my actual TV would be a Hemi Durango- that is where I think I might be pushing it. says can tow 7200 (max) and the dry weight of the camper is I think 5070 lbs. so as it sits I imagine 6000 ilbs (with contents) - I'm hoping if I do use Durango I'll add air bags in rear. (I don't have load leveling shocks)- but I will use a weight distribution hitch. I may look into buying a TV. can't afford a lot- maybe 10-15G.
Personally, I think you may be cutting it too close. There are plenty of 1/2 & 3/4 tons in your price range that would fit the bill. Unless you are full timing, you don't need a massive TV. Just a properly equipped and setup truck or big SUV.
That's a long beast and I'd be hesitant to tow with something that just covers the weight.

Best of luck,
Ian
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:37 PM   #18
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International is a trim line, more bells and whistles. But I have never seen oa Sovereign that was not an International. The Sovereign's original name was Sovereign of the Road. Land Yacht was also a trim line, not as fancy as the International. I have a Tradewind which is in the Land Yacht line. Again never saw a Tradewind that was not a Land Yacht. Later Airstream made a Land Yacht model. Airstream has done some confusing labeling over the years.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:43 AM   #19
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International is a trim line, more bells and whistles. But I have never seen oa Sovereign that was not an International. The Sovereign's original name was Sovereign of the Road. Land Yacht was also a trim line, not as fancy as the International. I have a Tradewind which is in the Land Yacht line. Again never saw a Tradewind that was not a Land Yacht. Later Airstream made a Land Yacht model. Airstream has done some confusing labeling over the years.
Hi

One of the practical ways to hang on to a Trademark is to keep using it. My guess is that's what drives Airstream's re-use of all these names.

Bob
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