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Old 11-20-2015, 08:23 AM   #1
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
Columbus , Ohio
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Oh boy, here we go?

Hi, here goes nothing...
Last summer I found a 1967 Safari in the weeds. Like many other similar stories here, the body was in really good condition, but the interior was a mess.
It towed just fine on the way home. I did get new tires on the way since I was already pushing my luck with the axle and no lights.

So, it's been sitting in our driveway for a year while I pulled out the interior.

And, while he's not on board with helping, my husband didn't divorce me either.

So, I've enlisted the help of a neighbor, who shares my enthusiasm with the project, also has a job where his job is slower in the winter, and an understanding spouse.

This isn't going to be a restoration, but I do have most of the parts and pieces to reuse, or get them to someone here if it's not something we need.

This is a multi winter project and this year we're tackling the biggies under the floor. The frame was actually pretty good. One cross member had been rusted through which made me feel lucky.

So, my first question, or request for advice is on the tanks.
Dave, my helper, got a black and grey tank from a wrecked rv. They are 33 gallons each. The fresh tank is a VTS 30 gallon tank.

What do you think if we only have one 33 gallon black tank and no grey?

We can put it in where the cross member is rotted out and weld in new supports to compensate for the extra weight.

Your thoughts are truly appreciated.
I'll add a link to my Flickr album as soon as I create it.
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Old 11-20-2015, 08:42 AM   #2
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Greetings from the Florida Panhandle

Welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

As to your question about a combination black/gray tank. It apparently can work as the new 16' Bambi's have a single waste water tank.

Brian
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:06 AM   #3
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Welcome to the Forums!

One thing to consider using that large single tank is how far it will protrude below the belly. Even if you aren't shooting for a "stock" appearance when it is over, you might miss the ground clearance if it is hanging too low.

There have been many debates about keeping grey and black water separate, but as mentioned above, they are sometimes put together, so even though not ideal, it may not be as harmful as it is sometimes thought to be. Personally, I prefer to keep the systems separate as I don't like the thought of my kitchen sink being plumbed directly into a festering tank-full of black water, but that may just be my squeamish side speaking.

There are other advantages to keeping them separate, though. One is that when it is time to dump, you dump the black water first, and then the grey, and the grey water then helps to rinse the valves and stinky-slinky. The second is that we all know that grey water is going to fill up faster than black water. If you were camping without full hookups, and your grey tank fills up, you could (assuming it is permitted) drain grey water onto the local foliage relatively harmlessly, whereas you could not do the same with a single tank full of black water.

Good luck!
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:28 AM   #4
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Geismar , Louisiana
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My 1966 Caravel has a setup with only a black water tank and no grey water. I am not sure if this is an acceptable solution but my caravel just sends grey water to the drainage pipe without holding it. This is kind of a pain if we don't have a sewer hookup because it is just dumping water on the ground, but it is also nice because it doesn't fill the black water tank. Keep in mind we have not modified it, so I am assuming this is how it came from the factory but who knows with the previous owners.

-Dane
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:51 AM   #5
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If you are thinking of a combined gray/black tank, they are not quite as nice but can work ok. As mentioned, the 16' Sport uses that system today. The famous GMC motorhome of the 70's also used the single gray/black system with a 40 gal tank. Plumbed right, there certainly is no danger involved. As mentioned in posts above, they are not as nice when it comes to dumping, as there is no way to rinse the hose with gray water after the black water is dumped, as in a conventional setup.

A single black water tank was how the '67 was plumbed to begin with, no gray water tank at all. Today that kine of system needs a hookup or an external gray water tank due to most environmental regulations. Same issue with black water and no rinse for the hose as in the combined systems.

I think those of us who have had all three systems over the years (raises hand) do prefer the separate two tanks but you can live with any of the three. Just takes understanding of the limits of each.
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Old 11-20-2015, 10:33 AM   #6
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My 20 footer doesn't have a grey tank

But I wish it. did

My fresh water tank is 28 gallons. I wish it held more without being bigger…ha ha

My point is….from my perspective….30 gallon black and grey tanks would be nice to have. But I would not want to be the one engineering the install.They are huge. I just think that it might be a lot easier to return the trailer plumbing back to the original configuration. ( I'm not a great plumber )

A lot depends on how you are going to use it. Campgrounds with hookups, won't know if you have a grey tank, and it won't matter anyway. Most AS rallys have an issue with not having a grey tank. Dumping grey water on the ground is a no no on state and federal parks.

You could get one of those blue tanks on wheels made for grey water. But they are kind of a pain.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:58 PM   #7
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I would put in an Airhead composting toilet and use your gray water tank as is.
I have rebuilt a 1980 24' Caravelle from the ground up and it seems like a perfect solution. Good luck.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:45 PM   #8
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You can add tanks between the crossmembers without a lot of extra work. In stock form they are more than capable of supporting tanks.


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Old 11-20-2015, 03:45 PM   #9
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1973 31' Sovereign
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My 1973 Sovereign didn't have a grey water tank when it was new, the grey water was supposed to go into one of those blue portable tanks or onto the ground. I went to a lot of trouble to add a grey water tank and have been happy I did. Now is the time to do this while the floor and underbelly are open. If you ever camp for a week with no hookups you will be glad you did!
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:02 PM   #10
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
Columbus , Ohio
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Thank you for the replies! Ok, how about this idea? The original black tank looks like it's in good shape. How often does it happen that it can be reused? And, then we'll use the 33 gallon tank as a grey water?
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Old 11-20-2015, 11:01 PM   #11
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Oh boy, here we go?

The tank itself is likely good. On mine and others, it is the galvanized outer shell that tends to rot away.

Honestly, I didn't reuse mine (less the rusty shell) because I DID NOT want to clean it..... Although it was long dry as a bone, I wasn't hot about tearing down the Great Pyramid of Giza resting inside.

Human waste kinda grosses me out.

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Old 11-23-2015, 09:38 AM   #12
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West Fork , Arkansas
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It's great to see another '67 Safari being rescued! Welcome!
Although our black water tank was OK, the pan holding it was rusted through. We did some framing repair, installed a stainless steel pan, new belly pan below it and reinstalled the tank. Grey water will typically flow into a portable tank if not tied to a sewer system.
Take and post photos along the way please.
Jim
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:26 PM   #13
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
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Here's what we started with...
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:47 PM   #14
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
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It was a good solid trailer on the exterior, or I'd have walked away. The interior made the decision to start over and easy one. So, this year we're tackling the floor and systems tied in around the floor. We decided to go with a new fresh water tank from VTS. It's a 30 gallon tank and will be above the floor. We are doing the combination grey/black tank with the practically free 35 gallon tank below the floor in the bathroom. We are shoring up the rotten parts of the frame under the door and under the window that was next to where the refrigerator was originally. Surprisingly, the bathroom was not the worst part of the trailer. D's getting a new shower pan made for the back streetside corner. Toilet in the middle over the tank, and bathroom sink will be on curbside. We've knocked most of the loose rust off and are PORing now. Have marine plywood in process of being epoxied. I feel like we've made so much progress now that it's started.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:49 PM   #15
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I have no idea why the pictures are sideways, sorry.
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Old 12-13-2015, 06:37 PM   #16
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
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Well, the frame repairs are in and complete. Didn't have too much to do, except for the refrigerator area and around the door. The bathroom wasn't too bad. Decided to put in a combo black grey tank which holds 35 gallons. The fresh water is 28 gallons and I wish I could figure out a way to increase that capacity. I'm using an F350 now so I figure I can carry extra water in the truck.
The marine plywood is coated with West Marine epoxy on the bottom. Not convinced that I should seal the top, as I worry about it not being able to breathe.
The frame has 1.5 coats of por 15 on, and the wheel wells are going to be done by tomorrow night.
But, now for the request for help, please...
We've done the factory tour and they placed the shell over bubble/foil insulation, over the frame. I didn't see any spacers between the bottom of the floor and the insulation. Will this be ok if we do the same?
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:32 PM   #17
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Forgive me...

... but I can't answer the question you asked.

But I can give some insight into your 28 gallon fresh water tank. Ours, admittedly 12 gallons more, is 40 gallons. But, we 1) don't always fill it up, and 2) rarely use it all during times when we are 'boondocking.'

My point is that you may find that in those instances where you are dependent on the 28 gallon fresh water tank, you'll find that 28 gallons can go a long way. If you're in a campground with a water spigot, you'll find that you can use that water, if necessary. If truly boon-docking, we've found dish-washing uses the most water. When that occurs we use the second sink to capture the water we use to rinse, and once there is an inch or so in the sink, we rinse the remainder of the dishes in that quart of so of water. We can use the dirty dishwater to flush the toilet. We can "let it mellow" but truly, an RV toilet uses less than a cup of water to flush!

Our "grey water" tank is 12 gallons - and black around 20 - so combined, is like your plan. We put more 'grey' water into the toilet because THAT (the 12 gallon grey tank) is the limiting factor for us.

It may be that when you get this rig out and are using it, you'll find you won't need to carry water in the 350 - if you are a little judicious in it's use. Fun to follow your adventures - good for you (hope you've got that hubby involved by now!)
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:39 PM   #18
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
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frame

Here's the new tank configuration...
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:45 PM   #19
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1967 22' Safari
1966 24' Tradewind
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frame/tank pic

Geez, I don't quite have the hang of this.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:48 PM   #20
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1967 22' Safari
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Oh good, since I don't really know where I'm taking it, I'm glad to hear that 28 gallons might get me there. And, my husband is fine with my projects, especially if he has very limited responsibilities with helping. It's a good sign that he asks me how it's going, right?
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