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Old 07-14-2015, 01:33 PM   #41
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1971 31' Sovereign
Christine , North Dakota
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Apparently I wasn't the first one to have the crazy idea about adding vista type windows.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...re-9920-2.html
Original Question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver suz View Post
Has anyone ever afdded a window I'm thinking about the small oval one. Is this reasonably possible to do? I'm interested in making a comfortable living place not on preservation. silver suz
Best Answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewkid64 View Post
All of the little oblong windows in the newer coaches are fixed windows. The windows that are larger than 12 X12 open.

The window has little or no framing around it other than the frame around the window on the outside and any additional inside trim that is used to finish the opening in the inner skin.

The frame and window glass structurally replace the skin that is cut out of the shell. At least to my way of thinking the solid window would not require any additional ribs around it. Some of the larger windows seem to connect to ribs.
Or another thread.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...1ft-23940.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_wanderer View Post
I am looking to buy an early 70's 31 ft. rear bed model. Having done a majority of the research for knowing what I want to buy and beware of, I am now researching some of my customization options. One of these is adding "vista-view" windows where they weren't before. I don't want to turn down a good buy if the only thing keeping me from it is the lack of windows. Is this possible or am I being the typically overly creative architect?
CraigCA, this may be why your Vista shades and mine don't match. If the Vista covers are NLA, yours' may have been replaced at one time. And after you described yours, with a couple pictures (please) I could make my own, we have a slip roller at work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Adding a window to the entrance door, if done correctly, is not a problem.

Adding an opening window, depending on location, may or may not cause a serious problem.

If the added opening window "does not" cut through a "main bow", then your in good shape.

If for any reason, you cut through a main bow, you must beef up the weakened area with horizontal stringers and sections of main bows. If not, then the weakened area of the structure (shell) can cause numerous problems.

Andy
And a answer that pretty much sums up work on any project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska View Post
No reason not to use the current vista view windows that don't leak and have a sliding shade built in. As Craftsman has posted, Roger Williams installed one in Rich Luhr's Safari bunkhouse. They come in several sizes.

I'm sure that adding a vista view is a lot like when I added a moon roof to my 260Z or installed a spoiler on my brand new Acura, you measure, mark, repeat the same at least 20 times, pray, take a deep breath, and start cutting.
I would venture to guess that not a lot of people do this because it cuts into the amount of overhead storage space.

As much as I'd like to say once this AS is "done" I will be full time airstreaming, I know that it will sit in my yard a lot, with a little luck my Sister-in-Law who works 1 week on, 1 week off, and has a house 120 miles away may use it as her personal bungalow when she is 'on'.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:06 PM   #42
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1971 31' Sovereign
1973 29' Ambassador
Palm Desert , California
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There should be the sheet metal to hold the bins on both sides under the twin beds.

You shouldn't see daylight through those wheel wells.

Yes, bathroom door is a pocket door.

Probably best to replace all the propane hoses and regulator with new. It's not that much money to do it all.

You can see that the correct ceiling light covers are supposed to look like on that web site I posted a link to.

You can find out where your AS was made by deciphering the VIN. It's on a plate at the front and also should be stamped below the name by the front door. I suspect yours came from Ohio. Mine was made in So. Ca. Which might be why the differences in the vista view windows? I don't have a good picture of my VV windows but I can get one tomorrow.

I stand corrected. I guess you did have an awning.

My kitchen cabinet doors are the height of the refrigerator. I don't recall seeing a setup like yours but it must be stock.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:36 PM   #43
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1971 31' Sovereign
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCA
Probably best to replace all the propane hoses and regulator with new
That is pretty much how I feel about it also. From what I've read, I should be 'ok' using the stock copper line between the tanks and the appliances provided it is in good working order.

It doesn't matter if the light covers are stock or not, I will not be keeping them.

There are a lot of attractive 12v LED track lights available.
What I haven't looked for yet is aftermarket light switches. The ceiling switches are ok if you are tall, but my kids are under 4ft, I'd like to have them someplace accessible for them, but not in the way.

One of the previous owners of my AS chopped up the pantry in order to put in a taller refrigerator, I'm guessing yours is still stock.

Before I tossed the fridge

Hack job they performed on the pantry and back panel to get the tall fridge into place.

Looks like I am off to find articles about fender liner repair

-ron
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:16 PM   #44
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1971 31' Sovereign
1973 29' Ambassador
Palm Desert , California
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I think Harbor Freight has a polyethylene repair kit if you have one nearby.

I'm keeping the copper lines to the appliances and just changing out the regulator, tank hoses and regulator to main line hose.

The big stores have switches. Vintage, Out Of Doors Mart and Airstream Supply.
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:46 PM   #45
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I forgot to mention, according to a pdf that I found online for decoding vins
My VIN
I31T1S****

claims it was build out of Santa Fe Springs

FWIW, Fargo ND (where I work) has all the big box stores, Home Depot, Lowes, Walsmart, Sam's Club, Costco, Harbor Freight. It is like a real city.

I was just checking out the rock tumbler selection at HF
Search results for: 'tumbler'
Apparently with the right medium, they are supposed to be good for polishing the interior window lock handles. I assume I'd use the same type of compound that a person would use for polishing brass. (i.e. reloading their own ammo)
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:04 PM   #46
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Same VIN as mine. When was it built? Mine is 6/71
I thought about that tumbler. I ended up using a wire brush to knock off the big corrosion and then used Brasso and a rag
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:17 PM   #47
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1971 31' Sovereign
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I may not buy a tumbler, being that I live in ND. I contacted a friend that reloads his own ammo, he says he has a tumbler and the correct compound, all I need to do is drop it off at his office.

It pays to have redneck friends.

As far as a build date, I'm not entirely certain how to get that information.
Is it part of the VIN?
Is it stamped somewhere?
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:33 PM   #48
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Mine has a data plate riveted to the front street side down low by the knee height molding.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:11 PM   #49
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Your air conditioner is not original (you probably already knew that). The gobs of "silicone" around it look like Vulkem aka Trempro used to seal AS extensively. It tends to stay somewhat soft (usually) and can be scraped off carefully. We found that carb cleaner and some elbow grease will take off the rest.
We have used Vintage Trailer, Out of Doors Mart, Inland RV, and Colaws salvage for lots of things our trailer needed.
Wait till you take the inner skins off. If you think mouse nests grossed you out, the tunnels and nests in the walls will really be lovely. You might have chewed wiring in there too.... Wear a mask so you don't get Hanta virus!
We completely gutted our trailer and rebuilt it. Looong process but well worth it! Look for "Little Girl Refurb" in the 1972 Sovereign section.
Good luck, neighbor!

Kay
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:11 PM   #50
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CraigCA, there are several plates attached to the AS about that height, but none of them have a born on date. I'll upload pictures of the attached plates tomorrow.

Minno, I've made it through the first 10 pages of your (you and Chris) rebuild.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f185...urb-50967.html
So far it has been a lot of work. What made you decide on fiberglass insulation instead of the foil bubble insulation?

I'm only up to the part of your rebuild thread where Chris is building the new grey and black water tanks. Which I find to be an extremely interesting portion of your build because I would really like to move my rear bath up to a center/side bath.

I found a guide for another project I am going to have to tackle one of these days.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...air-24690.html

I took my tanks in to get new valves and to be recertified. As stated yesterday, it will be $7 for recertification after $28 for new valves, and $28 to fill each tank. I decided to wait on getting the tanks revalved and recertified until I have working propane subsystems inside the AS. No sense in having full 30 gallon tanks sitting around that I can't use for anything.. too tall for my BBQ, of no use on the AS.

-ron
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:21 PM   #51
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We went fiberglass due to cost and time. It takes some serious time to do the bubble insulation that we've seen others do in their threads. It was also very expensive at the time to buy Prodex. We looked at Reflectix, but there weren't any real advantages in insulating power over fiberglass. We did NOT put any insulation under the floor, since we went with a floating cork floor that insulates well enough for our camping style.
It was a lot of work to do but we loved it, and we really like what we have now. Would we do it again? Hopefully won't have to, but we would if something happened to Little Girl. We would also do shell off instead of shell on this time. Thank God Chris knows what he's doing. He's the evil mastermind, I'm just the sidekick for most of it. (Yessssss, Maaassssterrrrr). I did learn a lot, and can cut compound curves now, and do rivets, Olympic rivets, shave Olympic rivets, etc.
BTW, it's never done....

Kay
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:57 AM   #52
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Kewl.. if you can find some 'Maxim' disinfectant, it mixes easy in water... and kills pretty well...
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Peace and Blessings..
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:32 PM   #53
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1971 31' Sovereign
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CraigCA,
I looked all over my AS for a born on date, these are the places I looked.
Tongue

Curb Side below the window in front of the entry door

Front, just below the main big window, center.

Rear, Street Side, just above the trim by the rear hatch.

Close up of those two.


Looks like I strike out this time.

And that was really all the work I did with the AS on Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.

Kay,
I thought the original AS insulation was 'notoriously' weak, with an R-rating of like 3-5 and that the bubble foil (when installed correctly) was roughly 16?

I will say that unlike you and Chris, I don't know how we are going to use our AS, neither mine, nor my wife's family has owned a towable RV trailer. And when I was a wee nipper and we did have a drivable RV (International pickup cab/chassis with full camper on back, no truck bed) we only used it for vacation to ND from OR once, and then we moved to ND. And then Dad sold it. My wife's family had some sort of drivable RV, that she affectionately referred to as 'the Brady Bunch Camper', it was big, it was bulbous, and they only used it when making family trips to Dr appointments in other states, mainly Salt Lake City or Minneapolis, so no fun trips there.

Before we had kids and we lived in Ft Collins, Colorado ('99-2003), we used to tent camp a dozen times per year. But since then, that tent hasn't been used more than 6 times. Now that the kids (ages 5 and 6) are getting bigger, they are starting to actually want to travel, so we figured this would be a good way to get out and see the country. I'd be willing to bet in the next year we will take this AS on a trip out to Oregon and possibly northern California. So we won't be camping in any extreme temperatures. however I figured if I have to reinsulate it, I'd be ahead of the game if I sealed it as best I can, in an effort to reduce stress on the furnace and/or AC unit.

Which seems to be the bubble foil, taping and caulking the seams. It looks like when done correctly the bubble foil acts as a full 3rd barrier on the AS. The first 2 being the inner and outer panels.

On the flip side I'm totally new to RV scene and run the risk of falling into the idea that because somebody thinks it is the best that I should do it the same way.

Lets just say I'll be reading a lot of rebuild, repair, and remodel threads.

I once rebuilt a '68 Mustang back to bone stock, 289/C4/PS. With Mustang specific catalogs in hand, I ordered up a lot of stock replacement parts, rebuilt that car is less than a year. (I outsourced the body work)

From this

To this, albeit now 15 years later, it is almost time for another rebuild.


There are so many things I really dislike about stock '68 Mustangs. Low back bucket seats, lapbelts only (no 3pt), non-power 4 wheel drum brakes, factory stock '60s power steering is always 'loose'. 15 years later all of these systems are still working exactly as they did when I replaced them, and I'll never sell this car, so when I rebuild it, I'll be installing Rack and Pinion, power front disk brakes.

Which is what I'd like to avoid doing with the AS, not simply replacing OE components, but making it ours. We know the stock floor plan as acquired will not work for us. Enough items are in need of replacement like the appliances, water heater, water pump, and potentially the furnace. Instead of simply replacing items, now is our opportunity to replace, upgrade, remold the floor plan to suit our style of camping.

but we have no idea what that really looks like..

In honesty, I fully expect that my AS will be used more like a guest house for my Sister In Law who works in Fargo every other week, but her house is 100 miles away. At least in the Spring/Summer/Fall; and if that is the case the insulation will be more for keeping the heat out and the AC cold in.

And as far as you being your husbands minion on the project, us IT/IS guys may have baby soft hands from our day jobs... but it gives us lots of time to research projects before breaking ground.

A couple of my previous job titles
Windows Integration Engineer
Change Control Analyst

cwf,
I'll do some research, and see if I can find some of that, I'd never heard of Maxim disinfectant before.

I assumed I'd never be done when I agreed to purchase this AS.
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:57 PM   #54
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1971 31' Sovereign
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Well that seemed like a long response..

This morning I got a bug in my bonnet and started tearing into things.. of course in a safe and orderly fashion.

For those that have never been to ND, all of our trees are planted in straight rows.. just a random fact.. there it sits and here comes my new dog Tess


Not sure if I mentioned this yet or not, but my main AS working hours are going to be from 4:30a-7am CST, after my wife heads out to the gym but before the kids wake up.

This morning was 5:30-7:15a.

I started my morning by pulling out the upper curtain rails for CraigCA


And after only 9 screws (5 in the street side, only 4 in the curbside) here are the rails.

He said he didn't need the upper drape sliders, and now I know why. They appear to have been glued onto the drapes.

And then things got serious. I've been wondering what the process is for taking out partitions, overhead cabinets, etc.

After removing a bunch of screws, wall number 1 is gone.
It was almost too easy.

Hey, that bedframe looks like it is simply screwed together.

It was..

And then presto, gone..

Well, it seems like this AS wants to come apart..

Guys, this is the FIRST rivet I have drilled out of this AS.

I am certain that there will be more in my future.

Walls/Partitions, under bed cabinets, and overhead cabinets are piling up.

Starting to look pretty bare on the street side.

All gone

Curbside bed frame and under storage removed

Now I've got a pile of walls, over and under cabinets, up front. If there is anything that you've wanted or needed for your '71 Sovereign, please let me know. I don't plan on reinstalling any of this. I am thinking about trying to repurpose the aluminum frames from the beds.

I removed a decent amount of screws this morning.


Not bad for under 2hrs.
Hopefully I'll tackle the kitchen area by this time tomorrow.

I'm still on plan.. use it this Summer/Fall.
I plan on keeping the existing bathroom in its original location, getting basic systems working.

Furnace
AC (already works)
Fresh water pump
Toilet.

And I'll most likely end up painting the entire interior and putting down some sort of locking/floating flooring.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:11 PM   #55
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And as one should expect; there were hiccups and discoveries that happened along the way.

Like this very first wall/partition that I took out. It had 2 screws down inside the channel.

I had to use a manual (gasp) screw driver to get at them.

In this picture the 3rd wall channel (the aluminum that is supposed to be holding the edge of the wall/partition) wasn't held on by anything, all the rivets had failed.

No pictures of it, but when I took out the beds, both sides had worked loose at the wall and the wall mounted aluminum rail was sitting on the tops of the wheel wells. Speaking of wheel wells, did you notice that mine only has the Inners (they are inners right Kay )

And my inners are cracked
Curb Side Inner Fender

Street Side Inner fender

Looks like I either need to invest in a plastic welder, or price out replacement inner fenders. At this point, I am leaning toward plastic welding, if I end up replacing them, that means I have to loosen the floor boards to get them out, and I'd like to avoid that since I haven't found any soft spots yet.

I hope this was one of the previous owners and not a factory installation.

Just look at that cold water line, 3 pieces of repair rubber hose, an introduction of 6 places for potential leaks

I don't know why, but I found this particular electrical situation amusing.
This is behind the location that the refrigerator was originally installed. I guess they needed that extra foot and a half extension.

Is that floor vent a 'stock' installation item?

Looks like I will have more wall degreasing/cleaning in my future as well.
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:13 PM   #56
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Another Mustang man! Ours isn't old - 2011, but she's pretty and fun to drive and we go for convertibles anyway. That is a pretty Mustang you have, though ( even if it isn't a convertible).
On the trailer,we did paint our roof white which does help with solar transfer. We repaired our inner wheel wells with fiberglass and epoxy. Chris says he would have built with aluminum if he had it to do over again. And, yes the floor vent is stock. It vented the back of the refrigerator. We louvered our refrigerator hatch so we could eliminate the hole.

Kay
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:00 PM   #57
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Kay,
To be 100% honest, convertibles scare me, and it would take a lot to convince me to buy one.

In my very first post, I said I wasn't really in the market for an AS, that is because I have enough projects for a lifetime, this is one of them.

This Spring I bought home this
1963.5 Falcon Convertible 260/4speed


This car has been in my family since at least 1980, in that time it has been in storage of one kind or another under a roof. I had never heard this car run until this year on Father's Day when I started it after getting it home. I have never seen this car move under its own power. The only rust in it is in the rear seating area, the transition from under the back seat down to the foot well area, Ford didn't put in proper drainage in that area. My Dad gave it to me a few years back but I didn't have time or money to even consider a rebuild/restomod. I don't restore, I rebuild to drive, and since I build for ME, I do what I want to make it the way I think it should be. And for this car that means I will be installing a 6pt (minimum) roll bar. To stiffen the unibody, add mounting points for 3pt seatbelts, and offer some level of protection above my head. I've been researching early '65/66 Mustang Convertibles for design ideas and have found a couple that I really like, understated, straight forward, and most importantly do not impede any of the seating locations. (full use of back seat)... but that is all for a different forum

When I get time, I will be bringing home one more convertible, either an Early Bronco or an International Scout. (wife's request -- just looking for the right one)

Well enough side tracking, back to the main purpose of this thread.

Last night and this morning I did nothing with the AS.

Well almost nothing, I called Inland RV and ordered enough D window seal to take car of half of the windows, plus a tube each of Vulkem and Parbond. Before you ask, I only ordered half because I lose things and I'd rather lose have of it than all of it. Yes I am THAT absent minded, which is why I take so many pictures. Plus there are enough different areas on this AS that I can break it up into different areas so I don't get into a monotonous groove doing the same thing over and over and over again for days on end. I can always order more when I'm ready.

Time to go find some articles on installing it correctly.
Andy told me over the phone that I should fully seal the window, Vulkem on the top and partially around the sides, Parbond on the rest.

FWIW, Kay. Andy agreed with you on the use of fiberglass for insulating the walls. He said that is the same way AS does it still, and there must be a reason for it. That means I get to figure out what type of insulation I should use.

I have gotten far enough in your 'little girl rebuild" to see the louvered reefer cover. I thought the louvers looked pretty good. I haven't made it to the part where the roof got painted yet, I don't know if you/Chris covered that.

If this darn day job and family life would just give me a couple days to do nothing but read the internet I could be caught up.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:27 AM   #58
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The roof paint is late in the thread.
Day jobs DO cut into your rebuild time. That's why it took us 4 years to get her just to the roadworthy and functional part! Now we're trying to catch up on house projects we neglected for 6 years!
There is, somewhere, a thread on insulation, and compares all the different ones. You might want to search for it. We're lazy - went for fiberglass.

Kay
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:25 AM   #59
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Cool cars! We don't own a vintage car because I don't want another fulltime project...

Regarding the rubber hoses on the water lines: They were probably installed over the years to replace broken copper water lines. Pretty common in older airstreams.

Regarding the two outlets by the fridge hatch: The one directly under the hatch was to plug the fridge into. The one to the left was on the other side of a wall, so something else was plugged into it. Maybe the original univolt power converter?

If you decide to louver the fridge hatch, be aware that the aluminum is quite hard, and will crack on the sides of the louvers. But, the cracks are really small, and you have to look really close to see them on our hatch. The cracks have not opened up any more after 4 or 5 years, and they have not detracted from the strength of the louvers. You'll also need to find a hot rod shop that still has a louver press.

We got your email asking about the axle serial numbers. But, it rained 3 1/4" last night, and everything it soaked outside. Going to be a hot muggy day! I need to crawl underneath the trailer to read the labels, and of course, they are on the center of the axels. I'm going to wait until dries off some, so either later today or tomorrow.

Chris
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:56 PM   #60
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MC, thanks for the info.
I'm still reading through your build thread, made it up to page 34 so far, she looks great!

And I like the color on the Convertible as well
That is near what one of our color options were when we originally had our '68 painted.

I did not work on the AS this weekend, but I did a bunch of yard work and started prepping a spot right next to my shop to move it up into. Maybe one of these days I'll figure out if mine is a boy or a girl and give it a name

I've got a bit of homework to do regarding axles.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...bad-78244.html

Andy posted some a link in that thread to an article on testing axles.

I was looking at the picture you posted of Little Girl sitting in your yard.

And I'm not appreciating a huge difference in ride height, I'm specifically looking at the distance from the top of the rims to the bottom of the fender openings.

I've also noticed that my door handle isn't like any others that I've seen, mine is 1 sided grab handle, it is not open all the way through.
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