Hasty Mouse to Mighty Mouse

[Can of beans]

Your trailer looks to be in pretty good shape, I didn't see too much evidence of rot in the floor. Definitely check around the front and back of the wheel wells. under the kitchen sink the bottom shelf is held in with just a few screws, and that will give you access to an area where you could see through the floor.


As for the mice, I decided in the end that the power cord is one of the mouse highways for these trailers. I switched to the plug in the side of the trailer, and removed the holes in the rear cross member, yours is a probably a bit different because of the rear bath.



I hate mice in things, that was partially the reason for completely gutting my trailer. I found so many nests in the walls and under the floors, that the smell was never going to go away, that and my floor was rotted front back and sides. There are holes around the wheel wells that need to be plugged also. because of the way the water tanks are heated in these trailers, anything that can get to the belly pan can get in the trailer.



I would suggest that if your trailer is going to live outside, that you also change the way the lid of the rear bumper storage works. the area forward of the hinge was designed by Airstream to keep the plywood at the rear of the trailer well dampened at all times so it will rot fastest.

The TV antennae was also a large leak in my trailer, the pot metal bracket is designed to hold some water, and then it rotted through, I rebuilt mine to keep the vintage feel, but the little plastic links are uncommon, so a modern antennae or a block off plate isn't a bad idea.

[aaryno]

i also had to repair leaks around the antenna and the cracking sealant around the vents. there are still leaks but it’s not dripping on my head. i’ll have to do the river sealing that others do…

rear end separation is likely. and despite all the reading i did about i i thought i understood but i didn’t. like i said before, you should really understand how the connection between subfloor, frame, and upper shell works and then it will be immediately obvious.

since you’re taking the bathroom out you might be able to see it from the inside too.

i found that nobody really seems to want my old parts but that it is hard to justify throwing them out until the rebuild is done because you don’t know what you’ll need to reuse, repurpose, or use as a template…

[aaryno]

these crude diagrams are cross sections of the rear end. note the orange subfloor in orange. it’s sandwiches between the frame and the c-channel and the inner and outer skin is attached rigidly to the c-channel. it makes a cohesive structure.

the bumper pan directs water below the subfloor when it rains. poor design! there are also lots of holes in the subfloor for plumbing things back there. so the plywood subfloor really doesn’t stand a chance. it rots away completely, so those nice bolts holding the frame to the c-channel with the plywood sandwich end up holding nothing. so the whole rear shell just hangs out there not really connected to anything.

anyway, hope the crude diagrams make sense.

in the second image i showed how the subfloor tots away by just erasing it. in reality the bolts (green) were pretty rotted and useless too.

[Shapmaui]

Originally Posted by Can of beans

Your trailer looks to be in pretty good shape, I didn't see too much evidence of rot in the floor. Definitely check around the front and back of the wheel wells. under the kitchen sink the bottom shelf is held in with just a few screws, and that will give you access to an area where you could see through the floor.


As for the mice, I decided in the end that the power cord is one of the mouse highways for these trailers. I switched to the plug in the side of the trailer, and removed the holes in the rear cross member, yours is a probably a bit different because of the rear bath.



I hate mice in things, that was partially the reason for completely gutting my trailer. I found so many nests in the walls and under the floors, that the smell was never going to go away, that and my floor was rotted front back and sides. There are holes around the wheel wells that need to be plugged also. because of the way the water tanks are heated in these trailers, anything that can get to the belly pan can get in the trailer.



I would suggest that if your trailer is going to live outside, that you also change the way the lid of the rear bumper storage works. the area forward of the hinge was designed by Airstream to keep the plywood at the rear of the trailer well dampened at all times so it will rot fastest.

The TV antennae was also a large leak in my trailer, the pot metal bracket is designed to hold some water, and then it rotted through, I rebuilt mine to keep the vintage feel, but the little plastic links are uncommon, so a modern antennae or a block off plate isn't a bad idea.

Yes, need to check out the frame soon. Thanks for the idea under the sink area. And agree on keeping mice and water out after all this is done.

Spoke to Colin Hyde and he suggested he could do all the work from a new floor down to the ground. I know that would be the easy way out, but lots of dollars, not sure my wife would be agreeable to that, and I’m not sure I want to hand over all those good times to Colin. In any case, he suggested gutting the tin can before it came to him, so that’s my plan for next time I get to Maine, after I leave this week. Full gut including inner skins. That way all the mouse, snake, rabbit, ant, gorilla, and whatever else that made a home and died in the walls, can be removed and given a proper burial..some respect for the creatures of the world…

How can you tell if your TV antenna area is leaking? The only evidence I could find of a leak in the front was some rot on the floor by the forward street side window, just forward of the entry door. And also on the very bottom part of the skin in that same area very close to the floor. A little bubbling of the inner skin there. The area in the pic, below the right most blue curtain. I wonder if the rot here could be from the antenna? Or something else maybe a leaky window seal?

[Shapmaui]

Originally Posted by aaryno

i also had to repair leaks around the antenna and the cracking sealant around the vents. there are still leaks but it’s not dripping on my head. i’ll have to do the river sealing that others do…

rear end separation is likely. and despite all the reading i did about i i thought i understood but i didn’t. like i said before, you should really understand how the connection between subfloor, frame, and upper shell works and then it will be immediately obvious.

since you’re taking the bathroom out you might be able to see it from the inside too.

i found that nobody really seems to want my old parts but that it is hard to justify throwing them out until the rebuild is done because you don’t know what you’ll need to reuse, repurpose, or use as a template…

See my post just before this about my current plan of action.

I don’t have any active dripping leaks that I can see either. I’m guessing I have a drip, drip, drip, in a few places behind the skins, down to the basement…

I did the rear separation test today with my brother in law who was upta Maine with my sister. I now have CONFIRMATION of rear separation. Didn’t even need to see your excellent drawings here to see that I had quite a view while I was both inside and outside the trailer.. While he was casually bouncing up and down, I probably could have stuck my pointer finger between the top of the rear hatch and the bottom of the outer shell. Shoot! Was hoping not to have seen that. But yep. That’s another thing I’ll need to repair as I move along. I’m guessing once the inner skins are off, I’ll have a great view of the area your so artistically drew here, and many more hidden gems.

And yeah it’s funny how I’ve been thinking about these old parts too. I’ll have to find a good storage area for them all during this whole multi year renovation. I won’t want to throw anything away until I have no other choice. I’m even saving the good screws I remove right now, but that’s kinda crazy I think…

What about that padded drop down seat over the toilet. Does anyone save that? I guess for a vintage restoration you’d want to reuse it…?

[Shapmaui]

Originally Posted by aaryno

Attachment 406816Attachment 406817

these crude diagrams are cross sections of the rear end. note the orange subfloor in orange. it’s sandwiches between the frame and the c-channel and the inner and outer skin is attached rigidly to the c-channel. it makes a cohesive structure.

the bumper pan directs water below the subfloor when it rains. poor design! there are also lots of holes in the subfloor for plumbing things back there. so the plywood subfloor really doesn’t stand a chance. it rots away completely, so those nice bolts holding the frame to the c-channel with the plywood sandwich end up holding nothing. so the whole rear shell just hangs out there not really connected to anything.

anyway, hope the crude diagrams make sense.

in the second image i showed how the subfloor tots away by just erasing it. in reality the bolts (green) were pretty rotted and useless too.

Is the “c” channel here facing up towards the ceiling? Or am I not looking at the drawing correctly?
My guess is the c channel lays facing the edge of the floor to grab it from above and below.

In our AS forum world is the “subfloor” the floor I’m looking at here in the photo, or is there a floor below this too that I can’t see right now, that is what we are calling the subfloor?

[Shapmaui]

Here’s a picture of the padded seat above the toilet, I was talking about above.
Does anyone keep these after renovating? If so, are they modified in any way? And why keep? For Nostalgia? Authenticity?
Thanks!

[Camper Crazy]

My toilet has no lid on it; the padded cover acts as a lid. I would remove it if it were like yours. Im considering recovering in a nice white vinyl.
CC

[Shapmaui]

Originally Posted by Camper Crazy

My toilet has no lid on it; the padded cover acts as a lid. I would remove it if it were like yours. Im considering recovering in a nice white vinyl.
CC

Do you have a pic of yours? Thx!

[Shapmaui]

I’ve been working on removing my rear bath piece by piece slowly.
I’m trying to save the pieces that come out just in case I need to use them again, or pass them on to someone who may want them. The following photos are where I’m at now. In the last couple photos it shows the rear separation with daylight coming through..
I also have a photo of the toilet flange. Trying to upload it but having trouble… What I can’t figure out is how it’s connected to the floor. No screws are through it to the floor. I’m not sure how it’s so solid- is it screwed into the black water tank somehow?

[skyguyscott]

Originally Posted by Shapmaui

In our AS forum world is the “subfloor” the floor I’m looking at here in the photo, or is there a floor below this too that I can’t see right now, that is what we are calling the subfloor?

The subfloor, in Airstream-speak, is the plywood. Then whatever you put on top of it (carpet, linoleum, vinyl plank, etc.) would be the "flooring"

FWIW, if yours was made during a certain period in the 80s, then you would have OSB instead of plywood, an even worse material than plywood!

The great news is that just a year ago, AS finally got rid of the awful plywood, which tends only to last a decade or so before going soft and rotting, with a one-piece composite material called Transcore, a material that will never rot. It only took them 90 years to make that improvement.

You can, of course, use some flavor of plywood to replace the subfloor, many do. But some splurge and procure a composite material called Coosa Board which, in addition to being impervious to water, mold, insects, mice and other critters, is 30% lighter than plywood while being just as strong as plywood of the same thickness and just as easy to work with. It will last forever and you will never have to replace or patch the floor due to rot or vermin ever again. Search for "Coosa" in the forums for many good threads there.

Congrats on your vintage coach. Some of us find it just as much fun to work on them as camp in them. Take your time, do your research, and do as much as you want, as much as you are comfortable doing, and take as much time as you like. You can even camp in it once you get to a certain point. None of us are ever "done" with working on them. Have fun!

[aaryno]

Originally Posted by Shapmaui

How can you tell if your TV antenna area is leaking? The only evidence I could find of a leak in the front was some rot on the floor by the forward street side window, just forward of the entry door. And also on the very bottom part of the skin in that same area very close to the floor. A little bubbling of the inner skin there. The area in the pic, below the right most blue curtain. I wonder if the rot here could be from the antenna? Or something else maybe a leaky window seal?

For me, when it rained, I had a drip-drip at the corner of the inner mid-ceiling skin at the endcap, right at the corner which was probably the lowest part of the surface where the drips would flow to. I found that the two most likely culprits nearby (the vent surround and the antenna holes) had pretty obviously rotten seals and I sealed them with some self-leveling thing and it stopped dripping.

[Camper Crazy]

I am away for a couple of days; will get a picture of toilet lid when I'm back.
CC

[Shapmaui]

Well, the trailer is sealed up and moved to her “safe”spot for the winter. Anyone have any ideas on enhanced safety/securing the trailer besides putting a lock on the tongue? It’s in a location that’s not fenced in, and anyone with some know how could cut the lock and drive her away…

I’ll keep my fingers crossed when I return she’s still there, or I’ll take it as a sign that I was never meant to qualify as an airstream owner intent on a full renovation…

[Camper Crazy]

I finally have the pictures of the toilet in my '72 airstream. It looks familiar, doesn't it; with the exception of the lid that mine is missing.
CC

[PizzaChop]

When you get back to restoring (springtime), I would leave all inside skins intact except for those necessary to remove rear floor and focus on rear floor/bath area as well as underside (bellypan) of the entire trailer..which is where most of your mouse problems will be.

While it is theoretically possible, it's pretty unlikely that you'll have rodents n the walls considering lack of access points. (I'm sure there are a couple access points in walls but under the floor & inside cabinets/furniture is just way less work for them.)

Removing inner skins sounds great and occasionally necessary I suppose, but its a lot more time, drill bits, and rivets to invest in a project that is already going to consume many hours.

I replaced the rear floor in a 72 Overlander (rear bath) in 2004 and while a PIA, it's doable and I'd definitely keep ALL of the components as you CAREFULLY remove them. You'll likely re use them...especially if they're in serviceable condition. We went the two part epoxy route and it turned out very nice.
(low profile eventually replaced with standard"
The frustration that I remember is that you have to remove the bedroom walls to remove the bathroom components.

In the 72 Overlander, I replaced the rear floor with a solid sheet of Advantec which is definitely better than plywood in terms of moisture resistance.

While you can spend more for better, I've had multiple contractors attest to its ability to resist moisture separation after sitting out in weather for years.

I WOULD NOT GO BACK WITH PLYWOOD. I did that with the rear floor in my 73 sovereign center bath and it didn't hold up very well to moisture at all, as I recently replaced that one AGAIN 15 years after 1st replacement (and years of vistaview leaks).

I used Advantec this fall (2nd floor replacement) and rather than replace the whole piece at once, I ripped it long ways and used the "tongue & groove" joint in between, supported by frame crossmember. (Rear piece with curve positioned first, groove forward, then front piece which is mostly rectangular with tapered sides installed AFTER rear plumbing is worked out.)

Replacing in one piece is doable (I did it in 2004) but especially with the rear bath, there are some plumbing cut outs that would likely be easier to position with only the rear most section in place.

Also, very important to remember...better to cut up old floor and carefully remove in sections so it can be used as a template....including existing cut outs.

A friend of mine has a 69 Overlander (rear bath) up at Colin's right now and he is adding a gray tank to it by using an above floor black tank and with low profile toilet. I'd probably go that route over re-configuring it to a center bath (which is very involved).

Good luck with your project.

[Shapmaui]

Headed to Maine in two days. Gonna be there for three weeks removing the rest of the interior components. Spring has sprung!

[Shapmaui]

Question. Any good pointers to threads for a shell on removal and replace of the subfloor? Thanks!

[PizzaChop]

Here is the start of the pics from my rear floor replacement. There might be a a thread I contributed to at the time but its been so long ago, I don't remember.

I think I posted most of the relevant pics in my Member's Photos.

I would not replace any more than necessary and usually, that's the rearmost piece of floor (where most damage occurs and the most important structurally regarding rear separation)

I'll emphasize again...better to cut the existing floor up in quarters so it can be used as a template for cut-outs on the new floor. The more you damage it removing it, the hard that becomes.

Good luck!

(we're finally back camping again!)

[Wabbiteer]

Ah, so…. I’ve rehabbed a Maine mouse trailer—-beware of Duct Dung Dunes—-don’t eeeeeven think about powering the furnace fan without a complete rehab.

The following thread was written doing the work solo so the writings got a little loopy in places…

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f36...ame-83064.html