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06-18-2008, 07:48 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1970 27' Overlander
Algoma
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11
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Replacing Moen Cartridge on Shower Faucet
Hey -
When de-winterizing my 1970 27' Rear bath Overlander, I had the unfortunate experience of having the shower faucet come off in my hand. A quick once over determined that the cartridge had frozen up and the cartridge clip disintigrated when I applied pressure to the faucet. I've managed to procure a new cartridge and clip but am now completely at a loss as to how to insert the cartridge clip. From the schematics I pulled up on the Moen website, it appears that the area where the cartridge is secured with the clip is behind the vanity bulkhead. A quick perusal of the rear compartment shows where the shower plumbing enters the tub but it is all but impossible to get to without disconnecting most of the other plumbing. The bathroom vanity appears to be one molded piece but on closer inspection, I see the top and bottom are riveted into place and a piece of trim covers the seam. Therefore, it would seem that I could drill out the rivets and remove the top of the vanity to get to the plumbing behind the bulkhead. I didn't want to start demo until I'd consulted a few folks.
Has anyone else experienced this and what have you done to get the problem solved.
Thanks in advance!
Derin
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E Aluminium Airsteamae
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06-18-2008, 09:50 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1998 31' Excella 1000
South Berwick
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 709
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Derin,
If you are talking about the very thin, long U shaped clip with a little ridge on top, it should be externally accessible one you remove the handle, faucet assembly trim ring and the chrome or aluminum trim tube that keeps the handle aligned with the valve - keeps it from turning too far left/right.
__________________
WBCCI 24291
New England Unit
Metropolitan NY Unit
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06-18-2008, 12:32 PM
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#3
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1 Rivet Member
1970 27' Overlander
Algoma
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11
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Ah, so the tube ring is also supposed to pop out. That seems lodged in there pretty good. I'll try a little gentle persuasion on that and see what comes of it. I know I can feel where the cartridge clip should slide in when I feel inside the channel. THANK YOU!
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E Aluminium Airsteamae
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06-18-2008, 02:51 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1998 31' Excella 1000
South Berwick
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 709
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Spray some liquid wrench or nut buster etc in there - it's probably seized up with a little corrosion from the dissimilar metals. A little rocking back and forth should get it to move. Easy to get new replacement if you need one. You'll see the clip underneath.
__________________
WBCCI 24291
New England Unit
Metropolitan NY Unit
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06-23-2008, 01:07 PM
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#5
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1 Rivet Member
1970 27' Overlander
Algoma
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11
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Success!
I applied a bit more force and the tube ring slid out. I had the whole thing reassembled in about 10 minutes.
I appreciate your help.
__________________
E Aluminium Airsteamae
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09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
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#6
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3 Rivet Member
1974 29' Ambassador
CONCORD
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 192
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Updating this thread. Here is a photo of one of the mixing cartridges used in mid-70s models. Mine is 1974 Ambassador, rear bath version.
As soon as I get the complete part number / available OEM replacement part(s), I'll post them up here. Note that there is one o-ring missing at the end of the cartridge, right about where the 4" mark is on the ruler.
The corresponding knob you'll see will likely be this one.
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09-28-2011, 10:12 PM
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#7
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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That same cartridge was used in many, many Moen faucets.
The one in this thread seemed to come out pretty easily, I think. Read about the job we had to do on our kitchen sink tap (exact same valve). It's in this thread, post number 44. That was a form of torture, getting it out!
I wound up talking to the Moen Helpline, and man, were they good. On their recommendation, I soaked the cartridge (before removal) in vinegar, and once it finally came out, scrubbed it's resting place with a toothbrush and more vinegar. It has worked beautifully ever since.
They made it clear that once the scrubbing was done, to let the tap run with no cartridge for a few seconds to make sure that nothing was left in the channel. We did that by placing a bucket over it, aiming it at the sink, and letting it blast.
Thanks for those photos. When we were doing ours, we got so into it I completely forgot to photograph it when it was apart.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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09-29-2011, 05:50 AM
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#8
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2 Rivet Member
1980 31' Excella II
Springfield
, Illinois
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 56
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I would highly suggest replacing the Moen brass cartridge model #1200 with the #1225 plastic cartridge. Shouldn't seize up in the body of the faucet. Been fighting froze up cartridges for years. Also, Moen sells a cartridge puller for severly seized cartridges. And if you pull the center out of the cartridge, there is even a fix for that. Usually screw a lag screw into the center and start pulling back out.
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09-29-2011, 07:17 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
1974 29' Ambassador
CONCORD
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aage
That same cartridge was used in many, many Moen faucets.
The one in this thread seemed to come out pretty easily, I think. Read about the job we had to do on our kitchen sink tap (exact same valve). It's in this thread, post number 44. That was a form of torture, getting it out!
I wound up talking to the Moen Helpline, and man, were they good. On their recommendation, I soaked the cartridge (before removal) in vinegar, and once it finally came out, scrubbed it's resting place with a toothbrush and more vinegar. It has worked beautifully ever since.
They made it clear that once the scrubbing was done, to let the tap run with no cartridge for a few seconds to make sure that nothing was left in the channel. We did that by placing a bucket over it, aiming it at the sink, and letting it blast.
Thanks for those photos. When we were doing ours, we got so into it I completely forgot to photograph it when it was apart.
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More great advice, thanks! Is there a replacement knob for our worn one? I'm hoping Lowes can help me with this, but I'm prepared to go to the real plumbing supply for what I need. I noticed the two flanges and the squared center shaft are pretty well worn. Could be best to just replace the cartridge than try to replace o-rings. 37 years is a pretty good service run!
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09-29-2011, 09:32 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1977 27' Overlander
Trotwood
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,153
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The MOEN Cartridge can be obtain at LOWES. I replaced the ones in our 77,which are exactly like the photo. HOWEVER DONT LOOK for MOEN. THERE is a Different brand which is all brass and a direct replacement. I found that MOEN does not make these valves. They are made by a different company FOR MOEN.
I found the Moen Valve(at Lowes) but the valve with the differnent name was the same thing but at half the price.
GOOD LUCK
ROGER
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Roger & MaryLou
___________________
F350 CREWCAB SW LONG BED
7.3 liter Power Stroke Diesel
1977 27ft OVERLANDER
KA8LMQ
AIR # 22336 TAC- OH-7
May your roads be straight and smooth and may you always have a tailwind!
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09-29-2011, 11:33 AM
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#11
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikethefixit
The MOEN Cartridge can be obtain at LOWES. I replaced the ones in our 77,which are exactly like the photo. HOWEVER DONT LOOK for MOEN. THERE is a Different brand which is all brass and a direct replacement. I found that MOEN does not make these valves. They are made by a different company FOR MOEN.
I found the Moen Valve(at Lowes) but the valve with the differnent name was the same thing but at half the price.
GOOD LUCK
ROGER
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We were fortunate in that we found a great person working at the Home Depot near where we keep Henri (our Sovereign). He pointed out that Moen have a lifetime guarantee on those cartridges, and just gave us one for free.
The barrel of it is brass, by the way, no idea if Moen actually made it or not, but it came in a plastic bag that included instructions and the little plastic tool that is needed to turn the cartridge in order to loosen it so it can be pulled out. I had to use ViseGrips on the shaft, and tap the ViceGrips with a hammer.
As for the handle and its chrome trim disc (that hides the screw holding it in), if Moen doesn't stock it any more I would be surprised. I would be even more surprised if some third-party company doesn't make them, seeing as how so many were sold. Any good hardware store that I've seen always has a wall full of knobs for the various high-selling bathroom and kitchen faucets.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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09-29-2011, 11:42 AM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
1973 31' Excella 500
Marysville
, Washington
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 219
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Oops, I saw the pics in the banner before I saw the post so I replied PM. I took my old one into Lowes and they had a replacement, easy.
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09-29-2011, 12:25 PM
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#13
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3 Rivet Member
1974 29' Ambassador
CONCORD
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 192
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One thing you should know about both the Moen 1200 and Danco replacement cartridge is that neither come with a saddle "retainer" clip. Even if a PO has somehow bent the two legs at a 90 degree angle, so that they protrude from the front of the valve assembly, causing you to break them off to remove the clip, you should strive to not break the clip.
Oh, in the event you don't (or cannot) heed my warning, those clips are Moen part 96365
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09-29-2011, 03:28 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1999 23' Safari
Perrysburg
, Ann Arbor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
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One quick comment: as someone noted above, Moen makes a "puller" for their faucet cartridges. In many instances, I have simply been unable to pull the cartridge without the puller. But it has never failed. Get them at plumbing supply stores that cater to plumbers and not homeowners ... I don't think the big box stores usually stock the pullers. And yes, be sure to clean out the cavity thoroughly before re-installing the cartridge. A little food grade silicone grease (also available at the plumbing supply) usually makes the job a cinch. Oh, and yeah - and as Mr. Olson notes, don't break the retaining clip!
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06-25-2013, 03:02 PM
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#15
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New Member
1988 32' Excella
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1
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Your talking about the faucet head itself? Mine drips hot water
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05-14-2016, 04:30 AM
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#16
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New Member
1976 25' Caravanner
Sebring
, Florida
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1
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Long time reader, first time posting. THANK YOU for posting this thread, I have a 1976 Caravanner, PO's left her in pretty bad shaped, but checking the water supply one day I to had the shower handle and the cartridge pop out. Taking the info everyone has shared will help me replace the cartridge and not the whole fixture. Thanks again.
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05-16-2016, 09:37 PM
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#17
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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Welcome aboard, Sue. Don't be shy, many, many, many folks here to tap on to get all the info you will ever need to gt th Caravanner in tip-top shape!
Care to show us some photos of your rig? You can post them into the Gallery easy as pie.
Aage
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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10-20-2016, 02:23 PM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member
1973 31' Sovereign
Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 36
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Hey there! I just wanted to replace the knob on my 73 sovereign when I realized that I couldn't get it to turn even with grips. No water came on. Soo, I'm assuming that it is seized up and needs replacement right? I don't know anything about these and read another thread that gave general instructions. But....What/where is the retaining clip? I hear I shouldn't break it....
Thank you for your help!
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