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Old 03-13-2022, 12:15 PM   #1
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2020 23' Flying Cloud
Ocala , Florida
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In desperate need of help!

In desperate need of help!

We have a 2020 flying cloud 23 FB. We have used it quite a lot since getting it in late 2019, spending 4 1/2 months on the road during 2020 and currently living in it since early January while waiting for a house to be built.

We have never had any water problems until now. So, here goes, it’s quite involved:

First, we noticed a puddle outside below the sink. We searched the forums and found really good advice about replacing the city water inlet. We decided to order two from Amazon just in case it ever happened again.

We replaced the city water inlet after figuring out how to remove the drawers from under the sink so we could get to it. While we were waiting for the city water inlet to arrive we used only our pump with water in our tank. We are staying in a RV resort until June so we have full hook ups. After replacing the inlet we wrapped a paper towel around the inside portion so we could tell if it ever leaked again.

I can’t tell you how many times we felt back there and the paper towel was dry. And, then, lo and behold, one day it was wet! So, we decided to try again. This time we hand tightened the black “butterfly“ connection on the inside of the trailer and it tighten down even more then when we originally installed it. Keep in mind this was about two weeks after the initial replacement of the city water inlet.

After looking at that black butterfly connection we realize there was a tiny little gasket inside it. We dug it out and were able to find replacement ones locally, so we bought four. Came back to the trailer and replaced the gasket and hand tightened it down again.

That was about two weeks ago. It seems like we spent all of our waking hours checking behind the drawers to see if our paper towel was wet again. Thankfully, it was never wet. So, of course, we thought that we had fixed the problem with the new gasket.

Before we put on the new gasket we took The new city water inlet back out and pressure tested it as best we could by putting a blind cap on the fitting that goes to the trailer and hooking the other side up to our water hose. We saw no leaks so we assume it is not the city water inlet.

Fast forward to last night…
It has been about 10 days since we replaced the gasket. It got down to 30° last night, a freak cold wave for Florida. This morning, we decided to check behind the drawers again. And wouldn’t you know it, the paper towel had fallen off sometime in the last few weeks when we weren’t checking it. However, we could see where water had leaked behind the drawers because it looked like it had sprayed a little water on the wall. Having no paper towel to test, we’re not sure how much it leaked. Checking outside, there was a small wet spot in the same place again.

The conundrum is that when we originally found the leak outside, the insulation between the two skins (the outer wall and the inner wall) was wet. It has become so saturated that it dripped out from under the trailer and hence our wet spot. This time, it was a very small wet spot and wasn’t dripping, and dried up in about an hour after we found it. And, as I said, it looks like only the inner wall was wet, almost like it got sprayed.

I know this is a long post, but we are at our wits end. Hopefully someone has some advice or has experienced a similar problem. I eagerly await your replies.

BTW we have not used the second city water inlet yet. It is still in a box.
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Old 03-13-2022, 12:51 PM   #2
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Fleming Island , Florida
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You need to determine where the leak is on the inlet fitting. Hook up to city water and watch for drips.

I don't know about your trailer, but my fitting has a standard hose male fitting on the back. If it is leaking because the trailer side fitting is backing out, maybe use some pipe dope to tighten it up.

My sink faucet was the source of a leak. A previous owner had changed out the faucet and not properly modified the trailer plumbing to fit. The PEX lines were hanging awkwardly in free space and moving around while towing. When we hooked up to water they leaked.
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Old 03-13-2022, 05:29 PM   #3
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2017 25' International
West Lake Hills , Texas
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We discovered an intermittent leak in the city water inlet. Sometimes it leaks. Sometimes not. After some head scratching I determined that the leak occurs when the city water inlet is full of water but hose disconnected and cap in place, the pump on, and the hot water heater goes from stone cold to hot. I had replaced the pump thinking that was the root cause of the leak. Besides, it was very load and vibrated the trailer. I tried tightening the trailer-side connection to the inlet. Still leaks. I have a new inlet with me but the cold-snap hit GA pushing overnight temps down to 20F and no source for a replacement gasket. New inlet will go in this week.
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Old 03-14-2022, 01:01 PM   #4
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2020 23' Flying Cloud
Ocala , Florida
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Water leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungus View Post
We discovered an intermittent leak in the city water inlet. Sometimes it leaks. Sometimes not. After some head scratching I determined that the leak occurs when the city water inlet is full of water but hose disconnected and cap in place, the pump on, and the hot water heater goes from stone cold to hot. I had replaced the pump thinking that was the root cause of the leak. Besides, it was very load and vibrated the trailer. I tried tightening the trailer-side connection to the inlet. Still leaks. I have a new inlet with me but the cold-snap hit GA pushing overnight temps down to 20F and no source for a replacement gasket. New inlet will go in this week.
Fungus, please let me know if yours stops leaking after you replace it. As I said, ours stopped at first but started again about 10 days later. Keep an eye on it and let me know.
Just spoke to Shurflo and told Tech our problem. He had no remedy. Am going to send email to returns department and get it replaced. Tomorrow we will be replacing the 2nd city water inlet with the spare we bought. We can only imagine that there is a defect in the one we put in. Will post here our results.
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Old 03-14-2022, 03:36 PM   #5
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2014 27' FB International
Lewisville , Texas
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Leak Solution

You may be successful at temporarily stopping the leak, but, the real problem is you are dealing with a Chinese inferior product that seems to fail over and over for many members here.

The best way is to eliminate it and use an external water pressure regulator on the hose bib.

This thread here:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ge-208266.html

Has lots of good info was well as many good pics.

Best of luck with your repair.
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Old 03-14-2022, 05:37 PM   #6
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2014 27' FB International
Lewisville , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungus View Post
We discovered an intermittent leak in the city water inlet. Sometimes it leaks. Sometimes not. After some head scratching I determined that the leak occurs when the city water inlet is full of water but hose disconnected and cap in place, the pump on, and the hot water heater goes from stone cold to hot. I had replaced the pump thinking that was the root cause of the leak. Besides, it was very load and vibrated the trailer. I tried tightening the trailer-side connection to the inlet. Still leaks. I have a new inlet with me but the cold-snap hit GA pushing overnight temps down to 20F and no source for a replacement gasket. New inlet will go in this week.
Interesting you should notice the leak when the water heater goes from "stone cold to hot"

I have observed my outside pressure regulator that has a gauge, show the pressure go from 60 psi to over 100 psi while the water is heating. It is a closed system, so even with the air gap in the WH the pressure still goes up if no one happens to open a faucet while the WH is raising in temperature. An accumulator tank will help with this, but the reality is, you are finding the OEM Chinese pressure regulator is the weak point in the system and will leak at those pressures.

A quality brass, high flow, pressure regulator used at the hose bib will not stop the internal pressure from rising while the WH is coming up to temp, if no one opens the system. But, eliminating the OEM Chinese regulator will remove one of the weakest points in the system.

Pex is rated to 160 psi, but the OEM plastic Chinese regulator seems to be leak prone at anything over 80.

This is just my personal observation, anyone may proceed as you think best.
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Old 03-14-2022, 10:59 PM   #7
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Park City , Utah
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In desperate need of help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NO NOIZE View Post
You may be successful at temporarily stopping the leak, but, the real problem is you are dealing with a Chinese inferior product that seems to fail over and over for many members here.



The best way is to eliminate it and use an external water pressure regulator on the hose bib.



This thread here:



https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ge-208266.html



Has lots of good info was well as many good pics.



Best of luck with your repair.

Keep in mind that my mod was just so that I could turn off back pressure up in to the inlet assembly while using the fresh tank for water supply. I was getting wet insulation from the inlet even if not hooked to city water and using my fresh tank. If hooked up to city water, the valve I installed needs to be on and the mod won’t help at all if the inlet is leaking. I bought a solid brass inlet and at some point I’m going to retrofit it in to the pretty plastic fake chrome shur flo trim and elIminate the crap plastic pressure regulator assembly once and hopefully for all.
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Old 03-15-2022, 06:48 AM   #8
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2020 23' Flying Cloud
Ocala , Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NO NOIZE View Post
You may be successful at temporarily stopping the leak, but, the real problem is you are dealing with a Chinese inferior product that seems to fail over and over for many members here.

The best way is to eliminate it and use an external water pressure regulator on the hose bib.

This thread here:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ge-208266.html

Has lots of good info was well as many good pics.

Best of luck with your repair.
Thanks for the link! I knew someone would come up with something.
We do use an exterior pressure regulator at all campsites.
We totally agree about plastic junk. Having been in the natural gas industry for over 30 years I can’t abide using plastic. Have been wondering about finding a brass replacement and you have pointed me in the right direction.
Thank you!
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Old 03-15-2022, 06:52 AM   #9
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2020 23' Flying Cloud
Ocala , Florida
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Shurflo

I just wanted to let you know that I called the Shurflo company yesterday and talked to one of the techs in customer service. Their phone number is 800-854-3218.


I don’t know how long he had been with the company but he said no one had ever called that he was aware of and complained about the City water inlet that they sell. He gave me an email address where I can complain and they will refund me my purchase price.


Just thought I’d pass that along to others. If more people called them and complained maybe they would make something better.
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Old 03-20-2022, 11:54 AM   #10
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2019 25' Flying Cloud
Sequim , Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NO NOIZE View Post
You may be successful at temporarily stopping the leak, but, the real problem is you are dealing with a Chinese inferior product that seems to fail over and over for many members here.

The best way is to eliminate it and use an external water pressure regulator on the hose bib.

This thread here:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ge-208266.html

Has lots of good info was well as many good pics.

Best of luck with your repair.
We had the same problem with our 2015 23 FB, and again with our 2019 25 RBT. The 2nd time I did as suggested above and removed the cheap water pressure regulator entirely and always use an external regulator set at 50 psi. I always used the external regulator anyway so it was no additional effort for me and I removed a vulnerable (and redundant) component from the system.
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Old 03-21-2022, 05:15 AM   #11
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I think whats happening is you have been in the same spot and your hot water tank air cushion is gone. The hot water tank heats up and the water expands to stupid high pressure. It has to go somewhere and it drips at the weakest place. It is a sealed system with no relief tank.

Try opening the relief valve to replace the air cushion in the hot water tank. Do this when the tank is off to avoid a burn.
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Old 03-21-2022, 05:32 AM   #12
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FYI Pipefitter here,
Just a word on water pressure, usage drops off at night and the pressure is city systems increases a lot. The city pumps run continuously.

I have rebuilt many pressure regulators. Of all sizes. There really is nothing mysterious about them. They contain a diagram with a pin, and a spring. They may have a screen on the inlet and a check. Basically the spring is turned in the increase the pressure. They can leak or the spring could break. They can be dirty.
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Old 03-21-2022, 08:06 AM   #13
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2020 23' Flying Cloud
Ocala , Florida
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Addendum to original post

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Smith View Post
I just wanted to let you know that I called the Shurflo company yesterday and talked to one of the techs in customer service. Their phone number is 800-854-3218.


I don’t know how long he had been with the company but he said no one had ever called that he was aware of and complained about the City water inlet that they sell. He gave me an email address where I can complain and they will refund me my purchase price.


Just thought I’d pass that along to others. If more people called them and complained maybe they would make something better.
I emailed the returns department at Shurflo and I was told that they do not refund money. I provided my Amazon receipt for the two city water inlets that we purchased. Their returns department is sending us a new city water pump as a replacement for the two inlets, as we do not want the inlets replaced. We don’t need the pump at this time, but will keep as a spare.


This week we finally got all of our parts together to replace the factory city water inlet using the ideas from NO NOIZE and PCSKIER . Will post what happens.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:18 AM   #14
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1999 25' Safari
Running Springs , CA
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Park pressure too high!

Recently, while hooking up my fresh water to the park supply, I found that as soon as I turned on the faucet, the fresh water hose, the inline filter, AND the short hose to the filter from the faucet ALL STARTED LEAKING at the junctions! In addition to that, the fresh water hose was hard as a rock. Even a pair of pliers would not tighten them enough to stop the dripping.

My setup then:
Park faucet
Short adapter hose
Water inline filter
Fresh water hose to trailer
Pressure regulator
Trailer inlet

I reviewed my connections, and moved my regulator from the end of the fresh water hose to the park faucet, regulating EVERYTHING down to about 40 PSI. Everything stopped dripping immediately. The point is: those rubber washers on the hose ends are not rated for very much pressure (maybe 60 PSI max). Seeing them leak when the connections are hand-tight is an indicator of too much pressure at the park faucet. Your hose and filter are not really rated for continuous high pressure either. (Let one lay out in the New Mexico sun all day under pressure and see how high it sprays!)

My setup now:
Park faucet
Pressure regulator (even a cheap inline Chinese one works)
Short adapter hose
Water inline filter
Fresh water hose to trailer
Trailer inlet

While the Airstream has a pressure regulator for the incoming water, it is under the bed, in the middle of a PEX line to the rest of the trailer. I have not seen any leaks in there, but with really high inlet pressure, I wouldn't be surprised to have it start dripping.
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Old 03-22-2022, 07:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Smith View Post
Fungus, please let me know if yours stops leaking after you replace it. As I said, ours stopped at first but started again about 10 days later. Keep an eye on it and let me know.
Just spoke to Shurflo and told Tech our problem. He had no remedy. Am going to send email to returns department and get it replaced. Tomorrow we will be replacing the 2nd city water inlet with the spare we bought. We can only imagine that there is a defect in the one we put in. Will post here our results.
I have not figured this out yet. Weather often does not cooperate enough to allow multiple tests.

But...

I installed a new Shurflo city inlet. I got leakage in the usual spot. I opened up the back of the closet to gain access to the back of the city inlet. The leak was coming from the connection of the PEX into the inlet. So the inlet itself was not leaking at all. I wrapped the male side (inlet) with the cheap white thread tape. First test did not leak. I emptied the water heater. Second test did not leak; however, the pressure relief valve was dribbling a little so it's possible that there was enough pressure relieved in the system to not increase backpressure to the point of causing a leak.

More tests to come after the storm passes through Georgia tomorrow.

And I ordered some Blue Monster Teflon thread tape to try to stop the water heater drain plug from dripping.
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Old 03-23-2022, 03:29 AM   #16
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2014 27' FB International
Lewisville , Texas
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Possible Damaged Cone Gasket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungus View Post
I have not figured this out yet. Weather often does not cooperate enough to allow multiple tests.

But...

I installed a new Shurflo city inlet. I got leakage in the usual spot. I opened up the back of the closet to gain access to the back of the city inlet. The leak was coming from the connection of the PEX into the inlet. So the inlet itself was not leaking at all. I wrapped the male side (inlet) with the cheap white thread tape. First test did not leak. I emptied the water heater. Second test did not leak; however, the pressure relief valve was dribbling a little so it's possible that there was enough pressure relieved in the system to not increase backpressure to the point of causing a leak.

More tests to come after the storm passes through Georgia tomorrow.

And I ordered some Blue Monster Teflon thread tape to try to stop the water heater drain plug from dripping.
Your Pex swivel connection where you are connecting it to the inside threads of the inlet may have a damaged "Cone Washer". Inside that female connector the cone washer slips over the pipe down into the threads and is replaceable, you may have not have noticed it (I didn't). Technically, if this is the connector you have it does not require any Teflon tape or any other sealer and no amount of tape may work for long.

Here is a link to what the the cone washer looks like:

https://www.amazon.com/Flair-16435-P...a-905943808012

Here is an image posted by peskier that shows that cone washer, it is the yellowish part around the white pipe:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/att...p;d=1589132744

Some of these cone washers seem to be made out of soft rubber that easily deforms and others seem to be plastic that is really too hard for the application. You may have to experiment with a couple kinds to see what works for you. I see many sources for this washer but don't know which one is correct, the link to the image was simply the best pic I could find. Some are sold in a ten pack for the price of one

Best of luck with these frustrating intermittent water leaks.
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Old 03-23-2022, 03:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NO NOIZE View Post
Your Pex swivel connection where you are connecting it to the inside threads of the inlet may have a damaged "Cone Washer". Inside that female connector the cone washer slips over the pipe down into the threads and is replaceable, you may have not have noticed it (I didn't). ...
Thanks for pointing this out and posting the link. In the past I've replaced a couple of fittings with damage cone washers like that not knowing they could be pulled out and replace. Somehow I got in my head that the plastic bit was molded into the fitting and didn't know it was removable.
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Old 03-23-2022, 03:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard5933 View Post
Thanks for pointing this out and posting the link. In the past I've replaced a couple of fittings with damage cone washers like that not knowing they could be pulled out and replace. Somehow I got in my head that the plastic bit was molded into the fitting and didn't know it was removable.
That is what I thought as well, great minds think alike
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Old 03-23-2022, 06:12 AM   #19
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FYI to reset a relief valve open it and let it snap back down. Do not lower it back. This may stop your leak at the relief valve.

You really don’t want to use Teflon tape on the connections between the inlet and the plastic fitting. It will most likely over tighten and pull the plastic treads. The cone wash is the seal, not the treads.
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Old 03-23-2022, 07:05 AM   #20
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Thanks to NO NOIZE re cones. I ordered some today and expect same-day delivery. Might also explain the slight leak I got after installing a new outdoor shower.

Thanks to Bigventure re relief valve. I \snapped it as you mentioned then gently tapped it. I also noticed water dripping from the white tube under the water heater. I thought that was a low point but can't find the valve. There was also a small amount of water under the water heater inside the trailer. It hadn't been there before these procedures. I'm wondering if when I drained the water heater some water seeped into the trailer.

Not to hijack the thread...I've been considering a petcock for the leaky drain plug. Some folks recommend against brass touching the aluminum tank but the relief valve is brass. Is it because pipe goop or Teflon tape is a barrier between the two metals?
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