How to replace low point drain valves / petcocks in FC 25FB?

[jcazes]

Hi, I've spent quite a bit of time reading through other threads on this subject but can't seem to find an answer.

Despite my 2019 Flying Cloud 25FB only being a few years old, the handle on one of my petcocks broke and I can't seem to figure out how to remove the handle (or the entire petcock).



When I attempt to loosen the nut on the handle, it spins but doesn't back out. When I attempt to rotate the horizontal nut on the petcock near the handle, the handle hits the tank and prevents rotation. When I attempt to unscrew the entire petcock, the whole pipe assembly rotates.

After removing the access panel and breaking through the styrofoam, I see some sort of structure but it's not a nut and I had difficulty trying to hold it with channel locks while rotating the petcock.



What's the best way to remove these things?

[Malia20]

A bit of a puzzle. When you are turning the nut on the handle, I'm assuming the handle is not turning but the nut is spinning. If so, the post the nut is on must be turning and spinning the ball valve inside the petcock, so the handle is stripped. First spin the nut so the petcock ball is in the open position, then insert a small screwdriver into the opening of the petcock through the open ball valve. Now see if the nut will back out with the ball held from spinning. Maybe some penetrating oil on the nut. But if the ball is spinning and the handle is stripped, you could just use the nut to open and close the ball valve.
It looks like any other solution requires cutting the pex inside the compartment and reinstalling. doable if you have the tools, but I'd see if you can get the petcock to work.
Good luck.
Fred

[jcazes]

Originally Posted by Malia20

A bit of a puzzle. When you are turning the nut on the handle, I'm assuming the handle is not turning but the nut is spinning. If so, the post the nut is on must be turning and spinning the ball valve inside the petcock, so the handle is stripped. First spin the nut so the petcock ball is in the open position, then insert a small screwdriver into the opening of the petcock through the open ball valve. Now see if the nut will back out with the ball held from spinning. Maybe some penetrating oil on the nut. But if the ball is spinning and the handle is stripped, you could just use the nut to open and close the ball valve.
It looks like any other solution requires cutting the pex inside the compartment and reinstalling. doable if you have the tools, but I'd see if you can get the petcock to work.
Good luck.
Fred

Thanks for the ideas, Fred. I'll give this a try when I make it back out to the trailer.

I found another thread where someone appears to have gone down path #2:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ir-164795.html

The closest dealership is a good 3+ hours away. If I need to go down this path, should a plumber be able to do this kind of work?

Post #17 seems like a good idea (buying this flange), but I need to do some more research.

[ITSNO60]

The handle can be cut off but I'm guessing there's not enough clearance or "give" in the line to just unscrew the ball valve and screw in a new one at the brass 90 because the stem sticks up too high? If so one option is to cut the stem off with a zip wheel and unscrew it then add a fitting to convert to compression and install a compression ball valve. Depending on if the close nipple comes out with the valve or stays stuck in the brass 90 will determine what parts to buy. If the nipple comes out use MTP to compression if it stays use FIP. A short piece of copper pipe in between.

[richard5933]

The valve looks to be connected to a brass elbow, and that elbow looks to be screwed onto a nipple inserted into the poly piping.



Have you tried a proper open-end wrench on the inside nut instead of a Channel Lock pliers, along with another wrench on the brass elbow to turn it free? If you don't have an open-end wrench big enough, an adjustable wrench might still work better than the Channel Lock.

[ITSNO60]

Actually here' an easier way yet, cut off the stem and unscrew then install a Union ball valve, it comes apart so you can first install the fitting part onto your nipple (or a new nipple if the old one comes out with the old valve) then just screw the valve together, no rotation required.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by richard5933

The valve looks to be connected to a brass elbow, and that elbow looks to be screwed onto a nipple inserted into the poly piping.



Have you tried a proper open-end wrench on the inside nut instead of a Channel Lock pliers, along with another wrench on the brass elbow to turn it free? If you don't have an open-end wrench big enough, an adjustable wrench might still work better than the Channel Lock.

I'm thinking the part that looks like a brass nut is the top of a 2 piece bushing that threads onto the lower, washer part to protect the pex where it passes through the hole and not attached to the pipe or fitting at all.
I'm not clear on if there is enough room to rotate the valve and 90 all in one piece either, it looks like the other valve will be in the way.
I'm also not clear on if the valve has enough room to unscrew from the nipple/90, if so that would be the easiest. If not then the union valve would do it once the protruding stem is cut off the old valve. We need more info on where the OP is actually trying to separate the valve from the plumbing.

[ITSNO60]

1. Put wrench on flats of the 90 to hold (red line)
2. Put another wrench on ball valve slightly offset from first wrench (blue line)
3. Squeeze wrenches together to break loose, this method protects the plumbing and your hands both, eliminates chance of slipping and injury or damage.
4. Once loose, unscrew old valve, (cut off stem at yellow line if necessary).
5. Install new union valve (or regular valve if room to rotate) and new nipple if necessary. Final tighten with offset wrenches and one hand as before.
Just to be clear there are 3 parts here, the valve, a close nipple and an elbow. The valve should be removed from the close nipple but may take the nipple out of the 90 instead in which case you replace the nipple as it would be near impossible to retrieve it from the valve without damaging the threads. There is no need to be messing around up inside where the pex is.

[jcazes]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

1. Put wrench on flats of the 90 to hold (red line)
2. Put another wrench on ball valve slightly offset from first wrench (blue line)
3. Squeeze wrenches together to break loose, this method protects the plumbing and your hands both, eliminates chance of slipping and injury or damage.
4. Once loose, unscrew old valve, (cut off stem at yellow line if necessary).
5. Install new union valve (or regular valve if room to rotate) and new nipple if necessary. Final tighten with offset wrenches and one hand as before.
Just to be clear there are 3 parts here, the valve, a close nipple and an elbow. The valve should be removed from the close nipple but may take the nipple out of the 90 instead in which case you replace the nipple as it would be near impossible to retrieve it from the valve without damaging the threads. There is no need to be messing around up inside where the pex is.

Wow, thank you so much for the detailed suggestions. I’ll verify I didn’t break the connection between the petcock and PEX a few days ago. (I tried to unscrew the entire petcock / 90 degree piece before realizing the pipe on the other side was likely rotating, and that I didn’t have room to unscrew it because the other valve was in the way)

If it’s still sound / not leaking, this approach seems like my best bet.


Thank you all again for the replies. May be a week or so before I can get back out.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jcazes

...If it’s still sound / not leaking, this approach seems like my best bet...

Curious - if it's not leaking then why are you changing it now?

[jcazes]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Curious - if it's not leaking then why are you changing it now?

The hot water line low point valve handle was broken, which started my repair attempt. I think I need that to be functional to winterize properly.

In the process of trying to learn how to remove the valves, I rotated the entire cold water line petcock assembly in an attempt to unscrew it (and get better access to the hot water valve since it's farther away from the access panel).

After looking at the replacement petcock, it appears the assembly has a 1/2" barb fitting that I assume is just pushed into the PEX.

https://woodlandairstreamparts.com/p...nt-drain-valve



So I just need to verify that I didn't create any leaks from my attempts to unscrew an assembly that appears to have been clamped on instead of screwed on.

[ITSNO60]

I hope you're not going to pay $82 plus shipping for a $15 ball valve with a nipple and a 90.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I hope you're not going to pay $82 plus shipping for a $15 ball valve with a nipple and a 90.

Agree.

That really looks like three simple parts you should find in any well-stocked hardware store or plumbing supply house for under $20 total.

The parts I see are: brass 1/2" Pex barb x 1/4 pipe thread, 90-degree 1/4" pipe thread street elbow, and a 1/4 x 1/4 pipe thread ball valve. Once you get the old one off you can take it to a local store to get what you need.

[GCinSC2]

The fitting going into the PEX, anybody think it's a bulkhead style?

Agreed, $82 is a BUNCH.

[richard5933]

Not having one in front of me this is just a guess, but based on the photo posted by the OP, I'd say no. Looks like the whole thing could be moved up/down slightly and that the part going through the aluminum belly pan is just the treaded portion of the barbed fitting where it threads into the elbow.

There really is no need of a bulkhead fitting in this application since there is no need to make a water-tight connection to the belly pan.

[ITSNO60]

Following the link in post 11 I see there is a threaded shoulder on the 90, scrolling down to "related parts" you can see the nut. So it must be a bulkhead fitting instead of a bushing that I mistook it for. All the more reason to retain it and unscrewing it would not free the valve from the pex anyway. True they didn't need a water tight connection but did they use it to hold the assembly in place?

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

Following the link in post 11 I see there is a threaded shoulder on the 90, scrolling down to "related parts" you can see the nut. So it must be a bulkhead fitting instead of a bushing that I mistook it for. All the more reason to retain it and unscrewing it would not free the valve from the pex anyway. True they didn't need a water tight connection but did they use it to hold the assembly in place?

Good to know. Thanks for the sleuthing.

[jcazes]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I hope you're not going to pay $82 plus shipping for a $15 ball valve with a nipple and a 90.

I wasn't planning on it (yet)! Just posted the link for reference, and plan to replace the petcock on the end if I can cut off the handle.

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

Following the link in post 11 I see there is a threaded shoulder on the 90, scrolling down to "related parts" you can see the nut. So it must be a bulkhead fitting instead of a bushing that I mistook it for. All the more reason to retain it and unscrewing it would not free the valve from the pex anyway. True they didn't need a water tight connection but did they use it to hold the assembly in place?

I noticed that too, but strangely they don't seem to list any locknuts for sale and that part number doesn't appear anywhere else on the internet.

The AS parts book shows what appears to be a bulkhead nut on the 90 as part of the entire petcock part number:

Originally Posted by richard5933

Not having one in front of me this is just a guess, but based on the photo posted by the OP, I'd say no. Looks like the whole thing could be moved up/down slightly and that the part going through the aluminum belly pan is just the treaded portion of the barbed fitting where it threads into the elbow.

There really is no need of a bulkhead fitting in this application since there is no need to make a water-tight connection to the belly pan.

This is all pretty new to me, but it might actually be a bulkhead nut. I tried rotating it counterclockwise a few turns and was able to make a small amount of progress - this did loosen the 90 degree somewhat, but I after a short time I couldn't rotate it anymore.

Hopefully I didn't create any leaks and that piece doesn't matter. If I can cut off the handle then replacing the valve should be a relatively simple repair.

[jcazes]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

Actually here' an easier way yet, cut off the stem and unscrew then install a Union ball valve, it comes apart so you can first install the fitting part onto your nipple (or a new nipple if the old one comes out with the old valve) then just screw the valve together, no rotation required.

FYI for anyone else that finds this thread - the ball valve is actually 1/4", not 1/2" (the flange fitting is 1/2").

Unfortunately, 1/2" appears to be the smallest ball valve with a union connector that isn't backordered or pricey. Will just get a standard FNPT connector and cross my fingers that removing the handle will give me enough clearance to screw it on.

Originally Posted by richard5933

Agree.

That really looks like three simple parts you should find in any well-stocked hardware store or plumbing supply house for under $20 total.

The parts I see are: brass 1/2" Pex barb x 1/4 pipe thread, 90-degree 1/4" pipe thread street elbow, and a 1/4 x 1/4 pipe thread ball valve. Once you get the old one off you can take it to a local store to get what you need.

Thanks - I think that's accurate. Here's a link to the Red-White FIG 5083AB petcock / ball valve for anyone that wants the exact one Airstream includes: https://www.bpssg.com/1-4-brs-mini-b...red-white-5083

[Dermodad]

I'm new to this thread, having one of the low point valve handles break off in my hand yesterday. But the valve is open and otherwise intact.

WHY NOT just cap the open end of the valve? Once-a-year uncapping for draining seems pretty safe and simple...

Any good reason why not?