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04-30-2016, 03:57 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member 
Vintage Kin Owner
Superior
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 442
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Ghetto Hydronic Heater
So.....I was thinking about heat in my camper. Future camper, really. Much to do before this specific project.
So, the forced-air furnaces have never impressed me. They're loud, and, we've had trouble with them at altitude. When we have shore power, we use a silent oil-filled heater. When we dry camp, we have to use the dreaded propane furnace.
Has anyone ever run water a loop from their water heater to a small radiator? It would need a small pump on a thermostat, of course. I could just leave the water heater on all night (on propane, of course). It makes almost no noise at all when it fires up.
Are small circulation pumps just not rated for the high water temp?
Is my 5-gallon water heater simply not capable of the BTUs needed?
Or, is there another reason not to do this?
Thoughts?
__________________
1972 33' Streamline Emperor Crown Imperial
1949 30' Spartan Royal Mansion
2012 Nissan Armada
Most of China
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04-30-2016, 04:53 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master 
2019 27' Flying Cloud
Kansas City
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,080
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You have hit upon the problem.
Small water pumps, such as used in the HVAC industry for condensate, are not rated for very hot water temps.
The only pump I am aware of rated for steam temps is made by Hartell, and is quite expensive.
https://www.armstronginternational.c...df/hartell.pdf
__________________
Piggy Bank
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04-30-2016, 06:25 PM
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#3
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Maniacal Engineer
1971 25' Tradewind
Lopez Island
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,244
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The following pump is good for 175 psi and 250 F, which should easily handle your hot water heater output  .
http://www.thesolarbiz.com/EL-SID-SI...mp_2#gsc.tab=0
We went another route with a Dickinson marine propane heater. It has a tiny fan, but you can turn it off.
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04-30-2016, 06:44 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master 
2019 27' Flying Cloud
Kansas City
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,080
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Thanks for the info Barts
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Piggy Bank
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04-30-2016, 06:47 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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There was a thread many years ago by a man who had made a radiator system using a second water tank. Apparently it worked well but he had a small trailer. He did use a computer fan behind the "radiator".
For those ancient enough to remember, most radiator systems use a gravity flow or pump the RETURNING cooler water into the heater. I'm sure the thread was from 2006 through 2008. It was also published in some kind of RVing magazine.
I doubt if there are links to it, and I'll leave the search to others; but I remember I was impressed - negatively - by how much fuel it took for the forced air furnace and how it literally blew hot and cold. I'm retiring - so I'll fix the problem with Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, etc.
Paula
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Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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04-30-2016, 07:04 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,024
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I build my home with radiant heat 23 years ago. The supplier installed two Grundfos pumps to move the hot water through a heat exchanger and the house. They've worked perfectly for 23 years. They do, however, use 120 volts. Check out this article, it may give you some idea's.
http://solarhomestead.com/off-grid-circulating-pumps/
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04-30-2016, 09:15 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master 
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,515
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Precision Temp 'Twin Temp' and be done with it!! Tankless water heater as well and circulates propylene glycol to boot.
Uses small heat exchangers with silent fans to circulate the warm air.
OR
Re-invent the wheel. 😄
Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center*AMS Lithium Batteries
Lifeline AGM Batteries**Magnum Inverters***Victron Energy Components
541-490-6357
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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05-01-2016, 02:02 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master 

2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,263
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The German Truma "AquaGo comfort plus" instant on water heater has a built in hot water circulation pump that could possibly be used for heat. However, the propane consumption would probably be more per unit of time that the usual furnace. The Truma units are smaller than the usual 6 gallon storage water tank systems and use a little 12Vdcv for the control circuitry and only propane to heat the water.
We have the middle Truma "AquaGo comfort" model installed in both trailers as it has a small internal device to keep itself from freezing as long as the propane and battery power are on. Our storage unit provides 120Vac power, so the slight power draw is a non-issue.
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WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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05-01-2016, 01:36 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member 
Vintage Kin Owner
Superior
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 442
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Thanks for all the replies!
Goodness, the Twin Temp units are expensive! But, as with many of these RV appliances, they production runs must be so small there's little economy of scale.
Too bad that pump linked above is $265. Makes my experiment quite costly.
Maybe, if I buy a new furnace, it will work better than the one I have in my modern trailer. That one has not proved reliable. But I'm still suspicious that the venting is too restrictive and the sail switch doesn't activate.
Eric
__________________
1972 33' Streamline Emperor Crown Imperial
1949 30' Spartan Royal Mansion
2012 Nissan Armada
Most of China
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