A Baffling Problem

[OTRA15]

I don't think the fresh water tank is vented at all like the other tanks, Larry. There are threads here about a faulty pump check valve allowing city water to back-feed the water tank, but the net result seems to be water over-flowing the tank fill port IMO.

If your 25' has something specific that prompts your WAT, please post a photo, so that we can all work from the same premise. I will look at our water tank fill port when I am back at the trailer later this morning . . . also the owner's manual.

Have a great day everyone . . . BTW the almost-full moon has been really clear these days, out here on the right coast.

[GCinSC2]

Unless or until a source of this baffling grey tank fill up I'm seeing this one way.

The fresh water supplied by city hook up or fresh water tank via the pump. In order for the fresh water to get into the grey tank the water it has to pass thru air. Like out of a faucet travel thru air and into the drain and tank. The parts manual and diagram don't show a fresh to grey physically plumbed connection.
Did anyone find a plumbed fresh water to grey tank physical connection?

And the reason I asked about if it's raining is the implausible chance that the vent cap on the roof is missing and water getting in via the vent but that's gonna take a storm of storms to fill thru the vent, grasping at what ifs and no ways.

Last idea. It is a fresh water leak around a valve stem and not coming out of the spout and just slowly discharging water but NOT from the spout.

Wipe completely dry around the lav, kitchen and shower handles. Consider attaching a piece of paper around the fixture to act as a dry/wet witness and then connect to city water.

No I don't have an answer, just puzzled and wishing happy trails to David.

Gary

[BayouBiker]

The fresh tank overflow serves as the tank vent. Since it is odor free, it does not need to go to the roof away from ground level to be carried upward and dispersed by the wind.

I think the inside shower is the most likely place a small stream of water leaking from the faucet or spray wand could run down the wall undetected. Put the plug in the shower and see if it catches any water. I suppose you could do that for the sinks also just in case you missed something. At the very least we can check off these possible sources with even more confidence.

It seems so far fetched that a concealed pipping leak could just happen to spill into the drain system and from where? I suppose one could clean the grey tank thoroughly and then once at home fill the grey system to the point the shower pan is full and see if any leaks exist in the gray system. You could add a riser to the shower drain tape it to seal it and raise the level a foot further to near the top of the shower air admittance valve. But again this seems far fetched.

Edit: I'm thinking along the same lines as you Gary. I typed this one out slowly, sorry to repeat.

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Did anyone find a plumbed fresh water to grey tank physical connection?

Fresh and waste water are two completely separate systems made from two completely different materials. Fresh = PEX, Waste = PVC or ABS. There is no way to mistakenly join the two systems. There is no reason to intentionally join the two systems and serious sanitary reasons not to. Put stoppers in all the drains, hook back up to city water and see what happens.

[lsbrodsky]

Yeah, I agree. My parts manual drawings leave a lot to be desired, but there is NO connection between grey/black and fresh water. You are right the fw tank overflow just burbles out the vent next to the fill. I also want to think leak but the OP reported some significant inflow to the grey. I hope he can figure this out!
Larry

[Bill M.]

It worked previously and there have been no plumbing changes? Then it sure sounds like a leak somewhere to me. My trailers are old so the plumbing diagrams are different. I like the idea of stopping all the drains to see if water collects. Some how that outside shower sounds good for it to me. Maybe they plumbed an emergency drain for it into the gray tank in case it leaked.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

. . .
. . . I will look at our water tank fill port when I am back at the trailer later this morning . . .
. . .

FWIW our fresh water tank has its own vent tube, which discharges through a screened opening, right next to the fill port -- my pen is pointing at it IMO.

[tjdonahoe]

Peyote ,maybe. I would have to witness this magical phenomenon.

[stevejones]

Originally Posted by ColdMountain

4. I do have an outdoor shower. The compartment does not have a drain. However, at the first opportunity during this trip home I'm going to remove the plastic panel behind the shower faucet to see what lies behind there. I'll update this thread when I have those results.

You might be able to get to the city water fill, fresh water fill plumbing from the back of the wardrobe. Empty the wardrobe and remove the back panel that humps up. The "shelf" in the back of your wardrobe is to provide space and access for that plumbing. Hope that makes sense.

Steve

[SVTOTEM]

Are you the original owner? Could a previous owner have plumbed a gray tank flush system and the valve has opened slightly?

Hard to imagine this happening with the stock design unless there was a manufacturing error.

Can’t wait to hear what it turns out to be.

[Al U. Minium]

Originally Posted by ColdMountain

Peter,

Great minds...I was in the process of doing exactly your suggestion. I disconnected the city water and pressurized the tank. The pump initially ran for about 10-15 seconds, then stopped, and then cycled back on after 7 seconds, and it continues to cycle on every 7 seconds or so for just a second. Something is definitely amiss there.

This is indicating a leak after the pump or open faucet.

Only way to fill grey tank is leaking faucet over sink or shower drain....which you would see if hooked up to city water too.

Yep stoppers in the drains to see which one, but check often if leaking enough to fill grey tank.

[NO NOIZE]

Originally Posted by SVTOTEM

Can’t wait to hear what it turns out to be.

Me too.....

[KK4YZ]

Following

[KK4YZ]

OP, I take it you see no signs of water leaks inside or outside (under) the trailer with city water on?

This is a real head scratcher. It’s time to start removing panels and laying your eyes on as much of the internal plumbing as you can...looking for leaks or mods that a previous owner might have made.

At least this isn’t ruining your trip.

Jim

[OTRA15]

Hope the trip is going well, David. Just measuring twice here . . .

Any chance you have overlooked an outdoor faucet in an exterior compartment, perhaps under your water heater, per Brian's earlier Post #13? Not sure if you have explicitly ruled out this possibility IMO.

[click on orange arrow to go directly to this post]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I have no idea if your trailer has an outdoor faucet in one of the compartments but my MH has a faucet in the rear compartment where the city water hooks up. The bottom of this compartment is similar to a shower pan with a drain in the middle and a pipe going to the gray water so any leakage from either the faucet or the city fill goes into the gray tank instead of on the ground.

Post #15 has a photo from Bob Cross, from another thread, and the next post or two [here] comment on this possibility.

Sorry if this post seems like an intrusive pain in the you know what.

"Measure twice, cut once."

Happy trails,

[ColdMountain]

To everyone on this forum who contributed their thoughts and theories: many thanks for turning a baffling problem into a challenge and a learning experience!

At 2 am this morning I awoke with a simple thought: If there is no known physical connection between the fresh water and grey water systems (other than via the drains), then the mysterious filling of the grey water tank MUST have occurred because water was seeping from one of the faucets.

With that as the starting point, I methodically reviewed (mentally) every check I made on the galley, bathroom and shower (indoor and outdoor) faucets. And that’s when it hit me like a thunderbolt: Our indoor showerhead is a handheld, reduced flow unit that has a secondary valve in the hose that enables you to stop the water flow between soaping and rinsing by simply closing the button-actuated valve. It works well enough for its purpose, but it is not a valve that would shut off all flow. What if I had left the showerhead “on” but with the secondary valve closed?

I got out of bed, hopped over to the shower (I’m an amputee), opened the shower door and stared at the faucet control arm and sure enough it was in the “on” position, about half way between hot and cold. I looked down at the handheld showerhead, which was lying on the floor of the shower stall (we keep it there so it doesn’t fly off its hook during travel). There was no seepage, but I had disconnected the city water line. So I reconnected the trailer to city water and again stared at the showerhead. At first I saw no seepage, but then I realized that water was indeed flowing out and under our translucent shower matt. The flow was almost perfectly camouflaged.

That was the “leak” that was filling the grey water tank. The “fix” was painfully simple: I turned the shower control arm to “off.”

There are a number of morals to this story. A couple of key ones:

1. Facts are facts. If there is no physical connection between the fresh and grey water systems, other than via the drains, then that has to be where the problem is.

2. When checking for leaks (or any other phenomenon), the devil is in the details; observation must be obsessively thorough.

Once again, many thanks to everyone for helping me solve this baffling problem, and happy new year to you all!

David

[lsbrodsky]

Whew! I am pleased you had that flash of recall! Thank you for providing a simple solution to a problem we all could not believe we could not solve.
Larry

[GCinSC2]

I can sleep tonight.

Glad you persevered and found it. Yes details and don't assume.

Congrats.

[GOUSC]

Enjoyed reading this thread. Problem stated / lively discussion between OP and Forum members / OP follows through with suggestions/ most importantly, OP posts the solution. Glad it all worked out.
.

[OTRA15]

So glad you can close out 2020 with peace of mind!

Thanks for the update, David.