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Old 05-11-2021, 06:15 PM   #1
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2011 20' Flying Cloud
Spring , Texas
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6
Question 20 Foot Flying Cloud with Broken Pipe

We enjoy a 2011 20 foot Flying Cloud which apparently has a broken water pipe. We are in Texas and most have heard about our February sub-20 degree week. In spite of running the heater the entire week, we have a leak undoubtedly from a ruptured pipe. I noticed water on the floor when I ran the water pump after the weather warmed. The water pump was shooting water out of the front assembly. I replaced the pump and now when I turn the water pump on it does not stop when pressurized. Further water leaks out from beneath the shower when the pump is on or when attached to city water with the pressure on. I'm thinking that there is a ruptured pex pipe under my AS. I do not even know how to access the piping. I would love to have any advice from more experienced AS owners as to how to approach this.

Thank you for taking your time to help us! Marjorie & Jon
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:14 PM   #2
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
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Could be one or more broken pipes anywhere IMO. First guess would be the exterior shower valve area, and nearby indoor shower valves. You might want to post over in the 20-footer thread, as there are many owners of the same model there:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...rs-127845.html

Finding the leak(s) might require removing exterior aluminum panels and/or some of the belly pan -- above my pay grade.

Your hard freeze affected many owners . . . who learned that a full winterization was needed for such an event, not the Bandaid of keeping the interior heat on.

Good luck,
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:00 AM   #3
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2013 20' Flying Cloud
Westerly , Rhode Island
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I believe there are main hot and cold water lines running behind the shower, the lines for the shower running off those, the shower valve and a line running to the shower head. It could be any of those, but probably not the line between the valve and shower head.

Best scenario is a leak in the shower valve itself which can be replaced without dismantling the trailer. I'd start by removing the shower handle and valve cover to see anything right there and maybe get a peek down behind the shower wall. I took a quick look at my trailer and I'm really not sure how you would gain access behind the shower enclosure. It may involve removing the toilet and the stand the toilet is on. Maybe someone else can answer that. Sorry I can't help more.
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:05 AM   #4
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
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Good tips . . . also . . . in addition to Post #2, removing the exterior shower box may be possible for a look-see?
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Old 05-12-2021, 09:56 AM   #5
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1981 31' Excella Limited
Dallas , TX
Join Date: Oct 2020
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Water leak from Texas freeze

Before you start tearing panels off your trailer, you might want to purchase a selfie stick so you can "look" around the corners to see where a leak might be.
We too were affected by the great freeze of Texas in February 2021. Unfortunately in our case, the PEX plumbing disappeared into a block of spray-in foam, so I couldn't see a leak around the corner. Fortunately (or not) I ultimately discovered the leak in a burst hot water heater tank. There was a major rupture in the aluminum tank....I didn't even know there was a tank on our circa 1981 propane/electric heater, being a newbie. Since we are not boon-docking I replaced the hot water heater with a simple under counter electric heater which solved the problem.
The KISS principle should apply in a frustrating situation (Keep it simple stupid).
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:16 AM   #6
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capbli View Post
. . .
. . . I replaced the hot water heater with a simple under counter electric heater . . .
. . .
Does this require 120-volt alternating current from shore power, inverter, or generator?

Thanks,
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Old 05-13-2021, 01:18 PM   #7
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1981 31' Excella Limited
Dallas , TX
Join Date: Oct 2020
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110v needed for undercounter hot water heater

I was asked about the Bosch undercounter hot water heater. Yes, it requires shore power, but not that much. 1400 watts and it heats the water and then shuts off. It is very fast. We had some hot water within 10 minutes of plugging it in.
An instant or tankless hot water heater would not work. We simply don't have enough juice, since we're on a 30 amp circuit in our 1981 Excella.
We have yet to see how this functions with the air conditioning on, although the hot water heater is hooked up separately from the main 30amp breaker.
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Old 05-13-2021, 02:02 PM   #8
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
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Thanks for those details . . . Bosch makes great stuff.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:16 PM   #9
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Washington , Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Getting back to the OP...


I'm with smithcreek but I would start by pulling the alu panel off at the toilet and take a look...next stop the shower valve. I believe the plumbing continues rearward along the DS from city water to the shower then left and under the shower enclosure under the storage compartment light and one around T'ing to the sink and around to the pump.

This under shower area is where I hear my pump shuddering and but havenít moved on that diagnosis. If the small panel under the shower door was removable, that would be different.

I summarized today and all survived our first MO winter and hovering at zero for almost a month. Since I was there, I tried sticking the camera in the bulkhead opening on the left of the rear compartment.



Very informative...a plumbers rats nest to be left alone. Lots of likely places for an ell or T to crack...very similar to the mess under the alu panel at the toilet.


MarJon, I'd love to hear how you resolve this leak.


p.s apologizes on the upside-down pics. That is how I held the camera...pretty tight in there. Rotated them after down load but apparently reverts
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:25 PM   #10
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
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Thanks Bob, never knew we could see in there! Glad your winterization was successful.

When you have a chance, could you post another photo or two showing the opening you looked through, to see under the shower? I am having a tough time picturing this access:

" . . . I tried sticking the camera in the bulkhead opening on the left of the rear compartment"

I will look tomorrow morning also.

Thanks,
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:31 PM   #11
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjon View Post
. . .
Thank you for taking your time to help us!
. . .
Would it be possible, Marjorie and Jon, to turn on the water again, and get a video of the area which Bob just described, under the shower? If the leak is at either shower valve, it should become visible in this hidden space IMO.

Good luck,
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Old 05-16-2021, 07:06 AM   #12
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
. . .
. . . I believe the plumbing continues rearward along the DS from city water to the shower then left and under the shower enclosure
. . .
. . . I tried sticking the camera in the bulkhead opening on the left of the rear compartment.
. . .
Very informative...a plumbers rats nest to be left alone. Lots of likely places for an ell or T to crack...very similar to the mess under the alu panel at the toilet.
. . .
Looked at the situation this morning, and now it all makes sense. Not sure how you got a hand in far enough, to trip the camera shutter to take those shots, Bob, but glad you were able pull it back out!

Here is that bulkhead opening, right?
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Old 05-16-2021, 07:58 AM   #13
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Washington , Missouri
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Peter, yes, that's the opening...and remember I have a Fiamma to add to the obstetrical course! It was a reach for sure. Had someone honk at me (thumbs up) as I was climbing in.


BTW, does your detail guy polish that diamond plate too. ...future so bright...
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Old 05-16-2021, 08:16 AM   #14
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. . . never even noticed that!

Careful with those "obstetrical" devices and cameras . . . kinda old to be messing around with this maybe?

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Old 05-16-2021, 09:12 AM   #15
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ooops, so much for spellcheck
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Old 05-16-2021, 09:16 AM   #16
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One way to deal with a leak like this is to call a mobile repair service. If such exists in your area. In Fl we have one. In TN we do not. Our guy in Fl only charges $75 for the base call and he is pretty clever with PEX pipe. Sure beats trying to schedule a session with Camping World.
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjon View Post
. . .
Thank you for taking your time to help us! Marjorie & Jon
Wondering if you [the OP] got this sorted out? Your previous post to this one was in June of 2011 [hot link in blue], so maybe this has slipped off your radar already?

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 05-19-2021, 11:16 AM   #18
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2017 26' Flying Cloud
High Point , North Carolina
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For inspections like these, I recommend a fiber optic camera...they're cheap, IMO, simple to use...plug into your phone, download their app & view everything you snake the cable to....it's been indispensible for me to examine lines, electricals without tearing things apart.
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Old 05-19-2021, 11:48 AM   #19
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2007 23' Safari SE
Woodstock , Connecticut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjon View Post
We enjoy a 2011 20 foot Flying Cloud which apparently has a broken water pipe. We are in Texas and most have heard about our February sub-20 degree week. In spite of running the heater the entire week, we have a leak undoubtedly from a ruptured pipe. I noticed water on the floor when I ran the water pump after the weather warmed. The water pump was shooting water out of the front assembly. I replaced the pump and now when I turn the water pump on it does not stop when pressurized. Further water leaks out from beneath the shower when the pump is on or when attached to city water with the pressure on. I'm thinking that there is a ruptured pex pipe under my AS. I do not even know how to access the piping. I would love to have any advice from more experienced AS owners as to how to approach this.

Thank you for taking your time to help us! Marjorie & Jon
Hi. I found a leak under the shower of our Safari on our first trip out. Should have hooked up to water before purchase to see if had any issues. (2007 used model) With the help one of our son's, we were able to find the leak by taking the metal little cover off behind the toilet. Then I removed the shower valve assembly and could see the wall cross member next to the toilet. Then I cut a rectangle hole in the wall behind the toilet to gain access to the broken pex line. Took it apart and went to our local RV store and was able to get the correct parts. Easy fix using a hairdryer to heat the pex to push together. After completion, I made a plywood patch to cover the hole and painted it white. Hardly noticeable. Hope this helps. Airstream person told me I would have to take the toilet, toilet stand and shower wall out to fix this. Glad I didn't have to go to that trouble

Curtis
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Old 05-19-2021, 12:28 PM   #20
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Curtis, great solution. Scary cutting into the wall, but better than the alternative you mentioned.
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