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Old 06-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #1
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We’re trying to build a society here!

Recent posts about some inconsiderate buffoon dumping his black tanks in a WalMart parking lot, an RV product vendor defacing national monuments, visitors to national parks injuring animals, complaints about excessively loud music at campgrounds, and other posts about similar behaviors made me want to start this topic.

Two things I’ve noticed exponentially more frequently since I began towing my trailer 6 years ago - first, the number of people holding their phone to their head while driving or actually texting while driving - and second, the incredibly selfish way people drive to save themselves 3 seconds while putting everyone else at risk. Drive in the right hand lane of a highway and at every on ramp - even those with clear YIELD signs, people blow right through them to shave 3 seconds off their commute because they’re more important than everyone else trying to do the same thing. If you’re in a bit of a traffic jam, you’ll see it too - they’ll enter the on ramp and ride up the narrowing ramp to pass 10 cars before sliding in - or, if you’re backed up to exit - some self-important/self-centered mug will come zooming across from the far left lane to cut off the 50 cars waiting in a jam to exit the highway so he can get off ahead of them without waiting.

These are just some examples. There are millions of them. Selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered, unthinking, uncaring individuals who believe the world revolves around them - whatever they want to do is what matters - and if it offends anyone else, or harms anyone or anything else, tough darts....

When did we lose empathy?

When did we lose the sense of community?

When did we decide to ignore the sense of shame for being a jerk and turn it in to some false badge of honor?

Why did we forget the golden rule?

DW has an awesome saying when she sees this kind of behavior - hey - we’re trying to build a society here!

What irks you and what suggestions do you have for building a better society starting with our highways, campgrounds, and national parks?
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:12 AM   #2
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:53 AM   #3
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My theory: entitlement is the issue.
People expect movies and television for free, free food if the order took a little long, roads, schools and public services but no taxes, and on and on.
"The world according to phone" means the entire world revolves around the person holding said phone.

I've got this painted in my rig: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness," the quote continues in Mark Twain's Innocents Abroad, "and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men [people] and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."

The phone is a corner. The U.S. can be a corner (people need to travel internationally), but hopping in an Airstream and seeing this big, amazing country of ours is a great start, especially if you're taking the time to interact (and empathize) with the locals.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:54 AM   #4
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It will get worse

It started in 1980. And it's going to get worse. A lot worse. Just watch people ,they Don't have a Clue whats going on around them. If they get there face out of there phone it would be a good start.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:00 AM   #5
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There was a study done a number of years ago, that focused on commuter driving practices. The consensus was that some commuters compulsively must keep moving. They change lanes at every opportunity, tailgate, and in the absolute worst cases, will roll down the shoulder, exit and merge on the entry.

There are also studies on personality type that come to various conclusions, but generally identify folks as "wanting to just get along", "wanting to get things done", "wanting to communicate", and "wanting to analyze to get it right". Stress shifts the tendency most folks have prevalent in their lives. A commute certainly builds stress and could move folks to their most extreme behavior state.

There is also the factor of ignorance. Some folks do not understand that it is unlikely to improve their commute time by changing lanes and taking chances. Some folks do not understand right of way rules. Others don't understand that traffic moves more consistently if merging is done in a smooth zipper like fashion. Others just have poor driving skills, because they have never had much training.

But the worst factor is - it does not apply to me ....... I'm late for my job and can't get fired; it is only a short call and I have to take it - it's my boss, kid, girl friend; I'm next; I can beat that driver if I floor it; that Lux will let my junker in; and .............. whatever. The more we see it done ... speeding, barging, lane changes, talking on the phone, texting ...... the more we think it's OK for us to do that poor behavior. A study found that if 10-20% of folks do not follow the law, it's not enforceable.

How do I know? A 100 mile a day commute teaches you a lot about your behavior and that of others. Using a car pool can teach you even more. Attending a senior driver's education course can point out things you learned in driver's education and forgot through the years. However, the reduction of stress with retirement moves one to a completely different perspective. It really does.

Drive safe and find a way to enjoy the experience or use your back porch more. Pat
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by knunut View Post
. . .
. . . it's going to get worse. A lot worse.
. . .
That about covers it IMO.

Forgive the broad brush . . . but it appears to these eyes that the world is having a mass nervous breakdown, with a distinct overtone of religious zealotry fueling most of the polarization.

"Mo' people, mo' problems."

. . . fueled by fear . . . and anger . . .



One need not understand the physics of tidal action to see the water rising, and to get out of the way . . .

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Old 06-12-2019, 12:29 PM   #7
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However......
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post


Point well taken, but I can’t ignore the closing quote:

“The zipper merge is going to be this century's conversion to the metric system in the '70s. Great idea, made perfect sense, and was dead on arrival.”
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:49 PM   #9
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That is exactly the phrase I noticed!

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Old 06-12-2019, 01:29 PM   #10
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Yea, I was one of those commuters. Get out of my WAY!!!! Two hours in, three hours back in SF Bay area. For seven years. I finally figured out what was causing it.
Work.
Ya gotta stop working.
Man, no job, no schedule, no commute. I am a 55 all day warrior. Birds sing, flowers bloom, the sky is blue - I had no idea.
That work stuff, they have to do away with it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:42 PM   #11
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Yea, I was one of those commuters. Get out of my WAY!!!! Two hours in, three hours back in SF Bay area. For seven years. I finally figured out what was causing it.
Work.
Ya gotta stop working.
Man, no job, no schedule, no commute. I am a 55 all day warrior. Birds sing, flowers bloom, the sky is blue - I had no idea.
That work stuff, they have to do away with it.
Acheron, you are correct. No more Rush Hour (or two or three). Does Morristown even have a "rush 15 minutes"?
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:48 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
That about covers it IMO.

Forgive the broad brush . . . but it appears to these eyes that the world is having a mass nervous breakdown, with a distinct overtone of religious zealotry fueling most of the polarization.

"Mo' people, mo' problems."

. . . fueled by fear . . . and anger . . .



One need not understand the physics of tidal action to see the water rising, and to get out of the way . . .

Maybe if you watch the media. But out in the working world, at lest in mine, things are fine.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by knunut View Post
It started in 1980. And it's going to get worse. A lot worse. Just watch people ,they Don't have a Clue whats going on around them. If they get there face out of there phone it would be a good start.
I don't disagree that things are different now than they were back when; but 1980 is a fairly specific time stamp for a perceived societal change.

What was the precipitating 1980 event?
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Point well taken, but I can’t ignore the closing quote:

“The zipper merge is going to be this century's conversion to the metric system in the '70s. Great idea, made perfect sense, and was dead on arrival.”
People need to learn to press the gas when merging instead of trying to use their blinker to make a gap in traffic.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:51 PM   #15
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Kind'a like "after me, you come first" or "you owe me"
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:07 PM   #16
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Excerpt from OP:
"When did we lose the sense of community.
When did we decide to ignore the sense of shame.
Why did we forget the golden rule."

SteveSueMac you pretty much answered it but it sounds like you're going to get a bunch of good responses. Of course in the end it will still be highly debatable and maybe even some arguments involved. Seems most of all threads are headed that direction these days.

One of my questions is how many of our responses can be honest and include how many of these negative things we do ourselves. If none of "US" are doing the self-absorbed, selfish, me oriented things then it must be all of "THEM".....and all of "THEM" certainly includes some of "US".

We lost our sense of community when we became more "ME" oriented. That has been a gradual decline and yes of course phones aren't helping. Seems we would rather spend all day interacting with social media sites and getting thumbs up than having in-depth conversations with people where there might be other opinions, judgment or lack of understanding.

We decided to ignore the sense of shame because it's not relevant to the "ME" person. If nobody's allowed to judge you, make generalized rules on behavior or morality or consensus then who's to say what you are doing is wrong.

The golden rule is deeply steeped in religion and many people feel religion is yet another thing that some of "US" are trying to push on "THEM".

What is the fix and how do we make it better? We start with the very thing I'm blaming, "ME". Think of it more as starting at the bottom versus thinking just of yourself. That said, seeing a flaw in yourself, recognizing it and being able or willing to fix it or improve upon it is more than most of us can do

Be a better person! Identify something you're doing that's inappropriate or selfish and improve that. Become more educated in a worldly open minded sense. Travel in the sense of "vast experiences" is absolutely the anthesis of some of these things gone wrong.

Be less judgemental! Spending less time judging how other people behave and more time modeling good behavior could open somebody's eyes. It's so easy to sit around and identify stupid but less easy to hear that people might think something we're doing looks the same way.

Starting with yourself allows you to spread it to your family, allows it to spread to your friends, your fellow campers and people you interact with on a forum. If you surround yourself with good for people, good activities and good experiences your faith in humanity can be renewed.

All of humanity aren't selfish, egotistical, hot headed, f- them, disgusting, over-opinionated, underdressed, I don't care what anybody thinks people. I know it sure does look like and feel like it sometimes.

Start with what we can control US and OUR reactions to it. Start small, keep building, it rubs off.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:21 PM   #17
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It's the 10% A-Hole Factor.

Where ever you are, what ever you're doing....10% of people are acting like a-holes.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:50 PM   #18
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It only takes a few to ruin it for the rest; like the guy who passes on a hill and puts everyone in danger only to be one car ahead of you at the next stop sign.

Is it getting worse? Probably. In general I think society is more coarse, self-indulgent, and just angrier. Just look at how television has changed in 25 years. That speaks loads.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Recent posts about some inconsiderate buffoon dumping his black tanks in a WalMart parking lot, an RV product vendor defacing national monuments, visitors to national parks injuring animals, complaints about excessively loud music at campgrounds, and other posts about similar behaviors made me want to start this topic.

Two things I’ve noticed exponentially more frequently since I began towing my trailer 6 years ago - first, the number of people holding their phone to their head while driving or actually texting while driving - and second, the incredibly selfish way people drive to save themselves 3 seconds while putting everyone else at risk. Drive in the right hand lane of a highway and at every on ramp - even those with clear YIELD signs, people blow right through them to shave 3 seconds off their commute because they’re more important than everyone else trying to do the same thing. If you’re in a bit of a traffic jam, you’ll see it too - they’ll enter the on ramp and ride up the narrowing ramp to pass 10 cars before sliding in - or, if you’re backed up to exit - some self-important/self-centered mug will come zooming across from the far left lane to cut off the 50 cars waiting in a jam to exit the highway so he can get off ahead of them without waiting.

These are just some examples. There are millions of them. Selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered, unthinking, uncaring individuals who believe the world revolves around them - whatever they want to do is what matters - and if it offends anyone else, or harms anyone or anything else, tough darts....

When did we lose empathy?

When did we lose the sense of community?

When did we decide to ignore the sense of shame for being a jerk and turn it in to some false badge of honor?

Why did we forget the golden rule?

DW has an awesome saying when she sees this kind of behavior - hey - we’re trying to build a society here!

What irks you and what suggestions do you have for building a better society starting with our highways, campgrounds, and national parks?


Some of them are inconsiderate a-holes, others are blissfully oblivious...... it's how it's always been and it's how it'll always be....
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