Social Security

[Over59]

I've posted this in the "what ever" forum as it is off topic. It is however a fine example of why things stay the same.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT!
KEEP IT GOING!!!!

GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC.
SEC.


SOCIAL SECURITY:

(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during
election years.

Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social
Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.

You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable
for persons of their rare elevation in society.They
felt they should have a special plan for themselves.
So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit
plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the
need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:

When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay
until they die.

Except it may increase from time to time for cost of
living adjustments..

For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and
their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's
Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with
their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years
of their lives.

This is calculated on an average life span for each of
those two Dignitaries.

Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will
receive much more during the rest of their lives.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00.
NADA....ZILCH....

This little perk they voted for themselves is free to
them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The
funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from
the General Funds;

"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!

From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay
(or have paid) into,-every payday until we retire
(which amount is matched by our employer)-we can
expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after
retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to
collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68
years and one (1) month to equal Senator! Bill
Bradley's benefits!



Social Security could be very good if only one small
change were made.

That change would be to:

Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the
Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social
Security plan with the rest of us ....

then sit back.....

and watch how fast they would fix it.

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of
awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will
evolve



How many people can YOU send this to?

Better yet.....

How many people WILL you send this to??

[Janets Husband]

Injustace abounds, you think that is bad. I have worked for the federal government for 27 years. I also have over 40 quarters of paying into Social Security (SS).
So I am eligable for Civil Service Retirement(CSRS). This system is no longer an option for federal employees by the way.
I am also going to be eligable for Social Security.
But there's the rub, my SS is being reduced to near nothing because I am eligable for CSRS.
Basically I am being ripped off of the money, I paid into the SS system because I am a federal employee.
Try that one on for size. Some people called it double dipping so they screwed us.
If you have enough tenacity work that hard and long you should get every thing that is coming to you.

My $0.02

[Ken J]

We do not pay "into" social security - it is a pay as you go system, so anything that is paid "into" is paid "out" - for things like social security, roads, bridges, welfare programs, congressmans and senators salaries, military etc etc etc.

Ken J.

[Janets Husband]

Originally Posted by Ken J

We do not pay "into" social security - it is a pay as you go system, so anything that is paid "into" is paid "out" - for things like social security, roads, bridges, welfare programs, congressmans and senators salaries, military etc etc etc.

Ken J.

Ken I'm not sure what you're saying.
Social Security was set up as a trust fund. Not a pay as you go system.
Congress has chosen to use this fund to balance budgets. They continually raid it for other purposes.
If it was used as it was intended the money would be kept in the fund which would be paid interest.
Yes, I paid into it. I paid into the Social Security Trust Fund.
Please go to: http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/funds.html I believe this will clairify what I am trying to say.

[Ken J]

The social security trust fund is a bit of a myth - it really does not exist. Its just an accounting thing that Franklin Roosevelt created - so called trust fund - so that the social security system would not look like welfare. The fund acts only as a checking account - it essentially pays out what it brings in - it is a pay as you go system. This so called trust fund consists of a bunch of federal IOU's used for whatever gov't spends it money on. These bonds can only be redeemed by more bonds and higher taxes.

So I'm sorry to tell you that I know we are all told we are "paying in" to this system - but its a bit of a scam - its a pay as you go system.

Ken

[Silvertwinkie]

Maybe this one should go into the off topic forum, not the general our community?

As for me, I've made other arrangements and if SS does happen to still be around...it's all gravy...and it does blow knowing how much I've paid into it so far in the past 19 years!

[Silvertwinkie]

Sorry, I've had too much time on my hands and have been dying to try out a few new gifs!

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Maybe this one should go into the off topic forum, not the general our community?

As for me, I've made other arrangements and if SS does happen to still be around...it's all gravy...and it does blow knowing how much I've paid into it so far in the past 19 years!

Like you, Silvertwinkie, my husband and I decided not to depend on Social Security to be there when the time comes....so, we have been putting $$ into 401k's for years. We have both been contributing into Social Security for over 30 years, but we doubt it will be around, with the present leaders using the money to pay for the war....ooops, I mean "police action"....in Iraq and eying it to overcome the huge federal deficit.

I would say those huge salaries going the Senators and Congressional members and their spouses for life is the least of our worries in this country! We are well on our way to a two class society....the "haves and the have mores."

[Silvertwinkie]

Well I gotta say that Social Security is a relic of the depression era. It hasn't really been overhauled (or overhauled enough) to deal with the current needs of the system.

As for the war in Iraq, all kidding aside, Social Security was in DEEP, DEEP trouble far before that ever came to be. Sure it might not help pissing away a wad of cash in Iraq, but if it didn't go there, it would go someplace else OTHER than Social Insecurity Fund no matter who happens to be in the White House or Congress. Our elected leaders for decades have raided and unfunded Social Security for decades like a perv in a whorehouse with a fist full of $50s. If some folks think one elected official could changed the whole system for the better than another in only 4 years....HA! I have some real great land to sell ya near this big volcanic mountain out west.

The true definition of a politician is if "they aren't out kissing babies, they are stealing their lollypops!" and that goes for EVERY politician! Having worked for a municipality (local government agency) for almost a decade now, it's not shocking to me that things just don't get done. Sometimes government can be like a bike that is being "ghost ridden". The beast runs on autopilot and all that is required is a shovel and a pile of money to feed the beast.

[wingfoot321]

Over 59,

You are dead on!

Do you know how many terms a house or senate member has to serve to quality for 100% salary at retirement? It may be only one but, I do not know.

Also, a retiring member is allowed to convert their re-election campaign fund to their on use one time at retirement. Little going away present.

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

As for the war in Iraq, all kidding aside, Social Security was in DEEP, DEEP trouble far before that ever came to be. Sure it might not help pissing away a wad of cash in Iraq, but if it didn't go there, it would go someplace else OTHER than Social Insecurity Fund no matter who happens to be in the White House or Congress. Our elected leaders for decades have raided and unfunded Social Security for decades like a perv in a whorehouse with a fist full of $50s. If some folks think one elected official could changed the whole system for the better than another in only 4 years....HA! I have some real great land to sell ya near this big volcanic mountain out west.

Yup......you're 100% right on! If it's not one thing it's another....whoever happens to be in office will find some excuse to raid "Social Insecurity." This is exactly why I started contributing to my own retirement account 30 years ago when I got my first permanent job. Maybe Over59 is right....if the Senators and Congressional members had to contribute to and depend on Social Security for their retirement days, maybe they would work a little harder to make sure it is effectively managed!

[Over59]

I though I put this in the "off topic". I didn't see the subforum structure.

In any case it's the old fox and the hen house thing.

So let me see if I can follow this. They "congress" have been spending the SS money over the last 50 plus years for other stuff. Some of it good stuff maybe, but not putting it in the bank or leaning it and making interest. Technically I guess the general fund borrows it. (I thing just putting it in the bank would have really crippled the economy ?). Then they borrowed lots of money to spend on more stuff. This was during the period when the ratio of those paying to those taking out was generating positive cash flow. Now the ratio is changing and there are those who want to buy alot more good stuff and reduce the workers contribution (which I think is the correct "official" term). Good plan. What a mess.

[Silvertwinkie]

Here is the off topic forum. It's one more deep from the community one:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...play.php?f=161

At any rate, I can hardly see things change that much when the gov spends $500 on toilet seats and $200 on hammers, etc.

I hear ya on planning for outside SS. I've got 2 different things going on to cover retirement. One is full boar active and the other I started years ago, but will start to step up those contributions in 2005. Hopefully when I am able to retire in 20 or 30 years, the world will still be around for me to spend some of the nuts I've stored on things like grandkids, toys for us, vacations, etc.

Let me tell ya, I feel the SS pain big time. Been paying into it since the early 80s when I was a kid workin' a various teen jobs...matter of fact, I got earlier this year my SS annunal statement that they started sending a few years ago. It's painful to see how much I've contributed to it and remember, what you put into it, your employer matches. So whatever you have put in, your employer has doubled! The plot thickens and gets more gross each layer you pull....there have also been rumors of the retirement age being raised into the 70s due to folks living longer than they did when SS was first brought into being.

BTW, I agree fully, politicians should use the same things they force us to use. I couldn't agree more...either that or give us the same that they get to use with all the golden parachutes and such!

[Ken J]

Yes it is a mess - it is for that reason I cannot ever believe anyone would ever want to see more taxes, if you look around you and see how much of your money goes to taxes - in the form of income tax, sales tax, property tax, social security tax, and it goes on and on. The only way I see to fix it is to keep the tax level where it is or reduce it and force the gov't (and us) to figure out a way to manage it.

The things we learn at Airstream forums............................

Ken J.

[Porky Pig]

Did anyone catch the interview with Laurence J. Kotlikoff on the PBS show NOW with Bill Moyers?

What he had to say about this country's economic situation was not pretty.

For those of you who read .... pur this book on your list.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by Porky Pig

Did anyone catch the interview with Laurence J. Kotlikoff on the PBS show NOW with Bill Moyers?

What he had to say about this country's economic situation was not pretty.

For those of you who read .... pur this book on your list.

Think tanks have been worried about this since the Club of Rome days. I don't trust think tank anymore than I trust politicians.

Sooooo go streaming and enjoy.

[Cedars]

The original post is spurious; senators and congressmen do pay into Social Security, and have since about 1986 or so. They do receive a generous pension through another source, and must retire not just leave office, but also collect on SS they paid into. How many of you have a pension plan of some kind where you work? In addition to SS? The average recent John Deere retiree gets some $2400 monthly from all company and SS sources.... more than many people EARN while working! $28,800 per anum! Yes, the pension payout for congress is high ...... but look who they had negotiating! LOL!!!!
Please, people, can you at least TRY to verify information before you pass it on as fact?

Elizabeth in Iowa

[Porky Pig]

Originally Posted by Over59

Think tanks have been worried about this since the Club of Rome days. I don't trust think tank anymore than I trust politicians.

Think tanks? What are you talking about?

The book was written by a Professor of Economics at Boston University.

[Davydd]

The current BusinessWeek magazine addresses this very subject in an article on page 44 discussing Bush's privatization plan. Some tidbits in the article says $632 billion was paid in to SS in 2003 and $471 billion went back into benefits in 2003. In a sense it is solvent today and pay as you go but that excess money is being "borrowed" by the government to pay for other things which means eventually that borrowing will come due and the government can only pay it back through its only revenue stream--taxes.

The article says payouts will exceed annual SS revenues in 2018 and by around 2042 the system will no longer be able to pay all promised benefits as we know them today. At my age (almost 61) it appears I am on the leading edge of sliding in under the bell and enjoying the golden age of benefits. I doubt I will be around in 2042. Still, like Eric, I've made other plans. SS will be an icing on the cake bonus. I've privately saved as much as I can to have a tax free bundle, have a healthy 401K and will get a small pension. I've been a little leery about IRAs and haven't put as much into them as I could in that I think in what I save in not paying taxes today will probably be exceeded when I pull that money out. Now I am nervous in that if and when a major crisis might occur I will be viewed as privileged and the government will come after my money in some new way. So, I will play the Powerball lottery, hope to win and wallow in so much cash so as not to worry about all these details.

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I've privately saved as much as I can to have a tax free bundle, have a healthy 401K and will get a small pension. I've been a little leery about IRAs and haven't put as much into them as I could in that I think in what I save in not paying taxes today will probably be exceeded when I pull that money out. Now I am nervous in that if and when a major crisis might occur I will be viewed as privileged and the government will come after my money in some new way. So, I will play the Powerball lottery, hope to win and wallow in so much cash so as not to worry about all these details.

Now, THAT is positive thinking....mixed with a little bit o' paranoia!!!!!!