Questions about Vendors

[LI Pets]

I have a few questions about vendors herein.

In dealing with several of them over the past two months, they (some) tell me that they are seriously moderated in what they say to promote biz thru their advice or in response to questions.

Why would that be?

Do vendors pay a fee or is it free?

What are the guidelines dos and don’ts?

What are they allowed to discuss? Seems to me if you have people classified as vendors they should be able to “VEND”.

At least two of them (perhaps others) are now rarely seen because of this and are no longer contributing for the benefit of all.

A while back I commented on what I believed was a bad way in which a vendor does business; they had an opportunity to respond so both sides were heard on a level playing field.

The thread was closed; several people complained that the stream of information about that subject was halted. The thread was then reopened.

However all of my posts were deleted, I don’t think that was the way to handle complaints about vendors shouldn’t we all share the good and not so good experiences with the vendors herein?

Or do certain vendors have special privileges as what they can do.

This is a great resource of info but the moderation IMO is a bit too much.

Your thoughts.

[CanoeStream]

Bob -- The World Wide Web gives vendors a complete right to originate web material from their perspective. It might pay to review what each of us was instructed to understand when we signed up to participate in the Forums:

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[CanoeStream]

Further discussion on the place of vendors in Forums: http://www.airforums.com/forum...tml#post283362

[Condoluminum]

No to "detailed feedback" on vendors...

I am very happy with moderation of "Feedback" on vendors here... This is non-commercial site, and every vendor will suffer "Customer Defects" which can evolve into flaming disparagement and libel if not controlled carefully by our moderators... A brief "I was disappointed with.." will probably get through the Moderator...

Vendors who want to sell harder can buy ads from Andy for sides of Forum, and positive general remarks always welcome... The "I got screwed by X and you shouldn't ever do business with them..." messages need to be toned down and moderated, as they are now..

Any further details can be handled, as now, via PM or private e-mails...

John McG

[InsideOut]

The key here IMO is:

Dealer/Vendor and Sales Disputes:
AirstreamForums.com is not intended to be a mechanism for people to vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties. While we respect the fact that some buyers feel that they have issues with the dealer. manufacturer or seller, our community is not the place to carry on a vindictive mud-slinging campaign.

Please settle your differences with the seller, manufacturer and dealer through the long-established legal or arbitration systems or the Better Business Bureau but not through our community.

We as moderators can not, should not and will not get involved in the inevitable issues that would arise given the "no rules" approach to vendor solicitation and posts.

Shari

[ALANSD]

Every deal you do with a vendor has the potential to go south and then cause ranting and raving by the buyer. In other words even the best can screw up or be perceived as doing that.
Moderating and observing all the posts is a job we do well here.
Vendors often offer experienced opinions and gain thru exposure here as well in return. Seems a good system and one that has worked and IS working.

[denellen]

However all of my posts were deleted, I don’t think that was the way to handle complaints about vendors shouldn’t we all share the good and not so good experiences with the vendors herein?

This is a great resource of info but the moderation IMO is a bit too much.

Your thoughts.

I coud'nt agree more.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

The key here IMO is:
We as moderators can not, should not and will not get involved in the inevitable issues that would arise given the "no rules" approach to vendor solicitation and posts.

Shari

The poll disagrees. But then, forums typically are not a democracy.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by uwe

The poll disagrees. But then, forums typically are not a democracy.

The forum IS NOT a democracy. It is privately owned and the rules are set by the forum owner(s) and enforced by moderators. Everyone (including the moderators) agreed to a set of terms when they signed up. IMHO if you want to complain about vendors there are other forums out there set up for just that. We try to maintain a civil atmosphere on this forum. I have been on several in the past that I no longer read because of the amount of bashing, flaming and general bad behaviour that went on. Not every person is going to have the same opinion of any given vendor and moderators are not able to discern facts from fiction, nor should they have to, when it comes to any type of disputes. FWIW we do moderate the vendors too when they step over the line.

Aaron

[boatdoc]

Hey Lipets; Here is my opinion. It should be very easily understood that the Forum Rules have been very carefully selected for a good reason. The discussion forums are not for advertising or promoting their product. There is another place for that in the Forums. However, when it comes to publicly discussing individual dealings or experiences with the vendor, [with the exception of praise] it becomes a very fine line issue. The saying, that you cannot please everyone is so very true. It may not be fair to a vendor to take a public whipping over a single issue that may have been caused by misunderstanding between the two parties. On the other hand, there are people who live by complaints. I have had a few of those, and my spotless reputation in Marine field reaches across the Country. Last but not least, is the reason itself as to why we deal with the vendor. It is because we are incapable of carrying the task at hand ourself. It may be because we do not want to do it ourself. Or because we cannot manufacture specific part in our shed. It is not up to the moderators nor it is their duty, to judge who was unfair in their statement. We need the vendors and if we choose to sign the contract with them, you should demand a detailed description what and how must be done. Your money dictates what, and how it is to be done. Customers version of his expectations in his head may not be what is on the contract. Bashing of vendors has no place in our discussion forums. If the vendor did not performed in accordance with the contract, take him before the judge. The vendor may be unjustly accused in Forums and has no time to prove to the world that the customer is wrong. Thanks, "Boatdoc"

[LI Pets]

I'm not saying to bash them!

But others (66%) say opinions should be posted and 20% say to PM complaints. So 86% is now a silent majority!

There can be guidelines on complaints also.

Or how about a vendor opinion forum for praise and complaint.

If you allow vendors to sell their goods, you should also protect others from bad service or mis representations.

This is done on Ebay, and many other sites.

Please understand I have no complaint with any vendor at the moment. It was just a shipping cost policy that I questioned in a thread.

[Stefrobrts]

As a moderator, I do not want to be responsible for playing referee to vendor complaints. We have had many times where there was a complaint, the vendor said it was unfair, the customer said they were ripped off, people were talking about lawsuits...

I'm just a vounteer. I'm here to tell newbies how to work the forum, stop trolls from junking up our forums, clean up spam, and make sure everyone keeps this a family-friendly, civil forum. I cannot judge who is right and who is wrong. And what happens when a vendor says "that guy is lying about me and hurting my business, and I'm going to sue him for libel, sue the forum for giving him a public soapbox to stand on, and sue the mods for not stopping it"? This has happened on other forums on the web, and real people have lost real money. As a volunteer, I am not willing to take on that kind of risk, and I don't know any reasonable person who would. However, if anyone wants to, they can start up their own forum for Vendor reviews.

Until then, if you have a complaint, take it to the BBB. If you don't like a vendor, when someone asks for a part, pipe up and tell them the name of a good vendor they can buy it from (without mentioning the bad ones). Eventually the bad ones will go away.

[guy99]

In theory it would be nice to be able to post good and bad experiences with vendors on the forum. In practice this will inevitably lead to hostility and name calling. IMO, the best online resources are those that always maintain a civil tone, even if it means that some sorts of information (vendor ratings) is not available.

Here is a site which wants reviews about vendors: http://www.rvservicereviews.com/

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by Lipets

But others (66%) say opinions should be posted and 20% say to PM complaints. So 86% is now a silent majority!

Yes. it's a majority of the total number of votes registered, but it is a far cry from a "silent majority"...more like 0.1% of the total membership.

Shari

[LI Pets]

The poll indicates who has interest in the issue.

How many of the 16,000 members made more than 100, 25, or 10 posts

Members without participation means nothing.

Maybe this goes deeper, I believe the vendors pay or donate $$$ so if there's bad press no $$$. Is there a degree of protection by the Mods because of the $$$.

I don't know and I'm not saying there is either.

Be that as it may, the folks that operate this forum have to decide if they wish to sweep complaints under the rug or voice them in a democratic way.

[Stefrobrts]

Vendors do not pay any fees at this time. They do not have any influence over the forum, or the moderation team. I really feel insulted when people imply they do, because we work very hard to treat everyone fairly.

Another thing I might point out is that the BBB exists to take complaints about businesses, yet some of the vendors that get complained about the most have very few complaints filed with the BBB. Seems to me like that is the best place to take them, yet few people do.

[InsideOut]

Currently, there are:

6,372 members with at least one post
1,069 members with over 25 posts
663 members with over 50 posts
391 members with over 100 posts
119 members with over 500 posts
and 48 members with over 1000 posts

21 votes is still not a majority.

Shari

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

Vendors do not pay any fees at this time. They do not have any influence over the forum, or the moderation team. I really feel insulted when people imply they do, because we work very hard to treat everyone fairly.

Another thing I might point out is that the BBB exists to take complaints about businesses, yet some of the vendors that get complained about the most have very few complaints filed with the BBB. Seems to me like that is the best place to take them, yet few people do.

I have spoken to 3 vendors and they did need to make donations, to have better signature links, so that is not correct.

The BBB is the biggest sham in US Business ever. If you pay to join you will NEVER get a complaint it will always be settled. So a retailers record can appear spottless, to join costs $600 -1800 a year. Each BBB branch is a paid franchise. They are FOR profit branches.

Don't think for one second that it is worth a dime of credibility.

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Currently, there are:

6,372 members with at least one post
1,069 members with over 25 posts
663 members with over 50 posts
391 members with over 100 posts
119 members with over 500 posts
and 48 members with over 1000 posts

21 votes is still not a majority.

Shari

Shari, you may define a majority any way you wish, I wonder how you rate polical polls?

Now to your numbers.

No majority of active members, but that is the way most forums are.

Not that there is anything wrong with having about 1,000 somewhat active members and 1,000 very active in a very specialized hobby.

In fact it great!

I'm at over 350 posts in 2 months, this forum is a plethora of valuable info which I enjoy.

[ALANSD]

Originally Posted by Lipets

this forum is a plethora of valuable info which I enjoy.

It is more enjoyable in no small part because of the " moderation" which you contest, done earnestly by volunteers who have little interest but to help promote and enjoy our pastime. I have done this since day one, and report to you that we have put up and put out a number of people who thought it ok to have their say here in anyway they felt was acceptable and to heck with rules.
So I suggest you continue to enjoy it, glean what you can from the great info here and quit bellyaching because you paid someone too much for shipping. Maybe you should have asked for the shipping amount before you paid.