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Old 12-01-2006, 11:35 AM   #1
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"New" source for diesel

Over the past few days I read an article about a diesel refinery located in Washington State that recycles landfill plastics into high quality, low sulfur diesel for approximately $.52 per gallon. I was intrigued, but unfortunately didn't bookmark the article. I decided to researh a little and googled "landfill conversion to diesel" and found a couple of articles. The most informative is at http://www.localplanet.ie/index.php?...=197&Itemid=85. This is a technology invented in China some time ago and given world wide licensed in Britain recently.

The initial article I read stated that the demonstrator wanted to install 1,500 of these small refineries throughout the U.S. This would be great for our country for two reasons: 1) it would elliminate a tremendous amount of non-recyclable plastic that goes into landfills every year ; 2) it would provide an economical source of DOMESTIC heating oil and diesel fuel relieving some of our dependance on foreign oil . I have also read the buzz that the future in relieving our fuel crisis is in diesels and diesel/electric hybrids for passenger cars. This would be a step in the right direction toward that end.

However, like the article states, why haven't heard about this before now and why aren't we hearing more about it? I think it is exciting and should be news worthy, but we'll hear more about how much the cost of a barrel of oil is going up or how much OPEC cuts production before we hear about this.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:06 PM   #2
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Guess I know why we don't hear more about this now...lack of interest.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:26 PM   #3
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Sure sounds interesting, but then so does biodiesel. The problem is separating the hype from the facts. I've heard that biodiesel dissolves engine components. Is it true? Who knows? Sure would like to find an objective source on these new fuels.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:08 PM   #4
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Sounds intriguing MM. But I am not ready to put that stuff into my PSD yet.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:58 PM   #5
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bio diesel has more of a cleansing effect on the fuel system. It may harm rubber seals, but this is not always the case.
After three tanks of B100 I had to change the fuel filter on my diesel. But it did run well and strong with a less offensive smell, and less pollution. There are big rigs on the road running BioD for years.
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Old 12-01-2006, 07:10 PM   #6
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I have run B100 biodiesel in my truck since I acquired it used, with very low mileage. Over the 2 years I have had it, there has been no evidence of seal degradation or excessive filter clogging. If you have older seals, or your diesel truck has some miles on it, there could be some issues.

The following link is quite informative regarding the basics of biodiesel:

http://www.biofueloasis.com/html/basics.html
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Old 12-01-2006, 07:21 PM   #7
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The plastic / diesel process is still working on getting the CET up. The test run in Germany came in at 41 with 400+ sulfur. Too low and too high. They may get it figured out.

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Old 12-01-2006, 11:06 PM   #8
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The plastic / diesel process is still working on getting the CET up. The test run in Germany came in at 41 with 400+ sulfur. Too low and too high. They may get it figured out.
Man if they ever do, it's going to be incredible. No more Wal-Mart bags stuck in trees!

BD is good stuff. Better for the trucks than the ULSD with all the lubricity sucked out of it. My LB7 sounds like an LBZ when it's in the tank!
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:47 AM   #9
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55 MPH
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANSD
After three tanks of B100 I had to change the fuel filter on my diesel. But it did run well and strong with a less offensive smell, and less pollution. There are big rigs on the road running BioD for years.
Curious Alan, do you still run biodiesel? I know it's hard to find in Atlanta. Also, it is appropriate to change the fuel filter every 15K miles. Was it time to change the fuel filter on yours or do you think the biodiesel contributed to an early change?

I don't have ready access to biodiesel, but would be interested in these issues if I gain access in the future. Especially if the ULSD proves to not be good for my '05 engine.

I would like to see this recycling program become successful. Imagine being able to make something that would benefit our nations environment like reducing landfill volume (drink bottles) and at the same time benefit our economy by reducing our dependency on foreign oil by producing more of our needs at home without increasing pollution in the production like traditional refineries do, and it would/should free up money in consumer's pockets for other things (save money on transportation cost). If "they" can get it to work it seems like a win-win-win situation.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:36 AM   #11
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Here in the Minneapolis area we can buy biodiesel that is blended with regular diesel. I forget the ratio. We own a Volkswagon Jetta with the diesel, and I called Volkswagon America and their view was, use it. They expect no harm.

We also use it in our motorhome at times. Usually the bio is at convience stores and not convenient locations for large motorhomes.

It is the Quick Trip Chain where we get it here. It does smell better.
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Curious Alan, do you still run biodiesel? I know it's hard to find in Atlanta. Also, it is appropriate to change the fuel filter every 15K miles. Was it time to change the fuel filter on yours or do you think the biodiesel contributed to an early change?
.
I was running it unti I sold the truck last week. The new owner drove to Miami on Saturday to the Bio Fuels Conference. He is serious about getting his own bio made for the truck. I bought mine in Marietta, but there are only 4 or so spots around town that even sell the stuff.
The fuel filter needs to be changed a tank or three after you start on bio as it cleans out the sytem well and clogs up the filter. I coiuld tell mine was getting clogged, as performance went down. New filter in and the snap was back.
I am picking up my new to me Excursion V10 today....


by the way I was using B100 ( 100% bio) and dropped to B20 the usual mix for clder weather.
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:57 PM   #13
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I've been running biodiesel in my Duramax since the beginning of summer. No problems, still on the same fuel filters I started with. I have been running B100 in my John Deere 820 tractor all summer, and it is 34 years old! Still have not had to change fuel filters, but I flushed the tank out good last winter when I fixed a leak in it. I notice quite a difference in exaust smell when you start at 20% BD.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANSD
I was running it unti I sold the truck last week. ...

I am picking up my new to me Excursion V10 today....
Why the change in heart? Didn't you like the diesel or did you just need more family room than the extended cab? You are going to miss that diesel when you start filling up that thirsty V-10 every 200 miles or so.
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:37 PM   #15
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I listened to a biodiesel demo at our local FAIR this fall. One thing they stressed was that biodiesel has MORE lubrication than regular diesel. The word CANOLA OIL...AND MCDONALDS uses CANOLA came into the conversation a LOT. This biodiesel group is a bunch of lacal farmers who currently produce about 5,000 gals of bio a month for their consumption. PRICE???...they seem to think is not much cheaper. I could not get a good fix on what they determined was the price per gallon...JUST compeditive. NOW.....I ask the local Chevron distributor about the new gov fuel regs and the new soot cleaners on the diesels after jan 1st. HE told me biodiesel is a NO NO for the new engines at this time. ITS too much of an unknown as to how bio will effect the soot collectors????
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
Over the past few days I read an article about a diesel refinery located in Washington State that recycles landfill plastics into high quality, low sulfur diesel for approximately $.52 per gallon.
Yea, that's pretty cool and all, but after fed, state, county and municipal dirt bags get at it, the cost goes up to nearly $2 or more per gallon........though cheaper than the nearly $3 or more folks pay now. Seems that with every gallon we buy, a fair amount of that per gallon price goes to taxing bodies.

I'm all for doing our part, but the current taxes we pay, not only for gas are a total disgrace. At times it almost is like trying to get blood out of a turnip.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DFord79
I listened to a biodiesel demo at our local FAIR this fall. One thing they stressed was that biodiesel has MORE lubrication than regular diesel. The word CANOLA OIL...AND MCDONALDS uses CANOLA came into the conversation a LOT. This biodiesel group is a bunch of lacal farmers who currently produce about 5,000 gals of bio a month for their consumption. PRICE???...they seem to think is not much cheaper. I could not get a good fix on what they determined was the price per gallon...JUST compeditive. NOW.....I ask the local Chevron distributor about the new gov fuel regs and the new soot cleaners on the diesels after jan 1st. HE told me biodiesel is a NO NO for the new engines at this time. ITS too much of an unknown as to how bio will effect the soot collectors????
Thing about it is, the biggest pollutant issue is the sulfur, which is not an issue with B100 (and essentially insignificant in B99 for obvious reasons.)
If they can produce the empirical proof that biodiesel is even remotely as harmful as even ULSD is now in terms of particulate pollution, then I will be surprised. We may never know though, because of the politics and the players in the game serve to keep things muddles and confused.

I'm not entirely convinced, either that ULSD is not actually harmful to the older diesels. I can't imagine it being all that great for them. I'd even go so far as to say that there's some inclination to push everyone kicking and screaming into the "clean diesel" market by effectively accelerating the demise of the older ones in this fashion. I admit that may smack a bit of conspiracy theorem, but it sure would solve Big Oil's dilemma about what to do about the growing biodiesel industry. Personally, I'd much rather run BD and have some bona fide lubricity in my fuel than have to trust fuel additives developed by (who else) oil companies.

I'll just keep on driving my '02 Duramax, and my '06 Jetta and splash blending the BD until they figure out what's what. Truck's got less than 65k, car about 25k.

I got time.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:12 PM   #18
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Thing about it is, the biggest pollutant issue is the sulfur, which is not an issue with B100 (and essentially insignificant in B99 for obvious reasons.)
If they can produce the empirical proof that biodiesel is even remotely as harmful as even ULSD is now in terms of particulate pollution, then I will be surprised. We may never know though, because of the politics and the players in the game serve to keep things muddles and confused.

I'm not entirely convinced, either that ULSD is not actually harmful to the older diesels. I can't imagine it being all that great for them. I'd even go so far as to say that there's some inclination to push everyone kicking and screaming into the "clean diesel" market by effectively accelerating the demise of the older ones in this fashion. I admit that may smack a bit of conspiracy theorem, but it sure would solve Big Oil's dilemma about what to do about the growing biodiesel industry. Personally, I'd much rather run BD and have some bona fide lubricity in my fuel than have to trust fuel additives developed by (who else) oil companies.

I'll just keep on driving my '02 Duramax, and my '06 Jetta and splash blending the BD until they figure out what's what. Truck's got less than 65k, car about 25k.

I got time.
I'm not an expert, but I'm not sure everyone's talking about the same thing.
"Biodiesel" for instance. B100, B20, B5? that is 100% concentrations, 20% or 5%. Home-brewed, or commercial? What kind of ambient temperatures?
My understanding is that all of those questions affect the suitability for a given engine/task.
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