Messy Divorce- '70 Safari, '67 Overlander sales?

[Wayne&Sam]

Pass the popcorn.

[McDave]

Again, my sympathies to anyone going through a divorce, but I'm still thinking about the broader implications of this. Ordinarily, we think that if we have a pink slip and a copy of the current registration, we are fine to buy the vehicle. Of course, a pink slip could be forged, I guess. Or maybe someone has filed a lien against the vehicle since it was last registered that we could find out about if we contacted DMV. It's hard for me to believe that an unrecorded lien, like a court order in a divorce case, could have any impact on the buyer; otherwise, there would never be a safe way to purchase a used vehicle. The seller could be in contempt for ignoring a court order, but that shouldn't affect the buyer. So does anyone know if we have to take further steps beyond verifying that the seller is in fact the person shown on the pink slip and on the current registration in order to have a valid purchase?


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[SeeMore]

Laws differ State by State. A constant; receiving stolen or fraudulently sold/acquired goods, no matter free or paid for, are subject to confiscation without compensation. Caveat emptor always applies.

Meanwhile, there might have been a clue missed by the ridiculously low price asked

[LiLNomad]

Similar situation....My horse was stolen from the ranch where it was boarded. Somehow he ended up at the animal shelter who auctioned him off to the highest bidder. (I didnt even know animal shelters have horses which is why I never checked there during my search!) Despite a police report the animal shelter took the stance that he was "abandoned" Once I tracked down the new owners I went to his place of business (a veterinarian ofc) with the police officers in tow...I dont know what they said to him in private but he was quite agreeable to return my stolen horse to me. I still feel sorry for the pet owners in the waiting room who panicked when I waltzed in with the police in tow..one lady took her dog and ran outta there...hehe. It was then a argument between the animal shelter and the "new owner" regarding reimbursement of the adoption fees etc...
LilNomad

[CRH]

Originally Posted by markdoane

I think the divorce court would deduct half the value of the trailers from the division of assets going to the party that sold them.


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Me, too....They sound like community property. I don't see any theft or receiving stolen goods. It sounds like a civil matter between the married, not a criminal matter.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by SeeMore

Laws differ State by State. A constant; receiving stolen or fraudulently sold/acquired goods, no matter free or paid for, are subject to confiscation without compensation. Caveat emptor always applies.

First off, my sympathy to the original poster.

The thing I don't understand here is that in most states, vehicles like trailers have proof of ownership in the form of a title, which is a recorded document. (In Ohio, maintained by the Clerk of Courts for the county.) To sell the vehicle you have to have the title. To transfer the title the owner endorses it over to the buyer and title is transferred at the Clerk of Court's office. Presumably the domestic relations court could flag the title as disputed and the clerk of courts would not permit the transfer. If the seller is not the legal owner he or she would also be guilty of forgery.

The main concern here may be that the trailers might be headed for Mexico, out of reach of California courts.

[Spottedeagle]

Thank you for all your heartfelt sympathies and valued input. One of my elder Church lady friends has said to me: "You;re going to have an awesome testimony when this is all over!". I've been going down this road for almost 3 years, learned way too much about the family court system here in CA and it's undoubtedly different around the US. I have lived in the AS for months during the process, never wanted to use a lawyer but needed to fight for the most important thing in my life, my 9 year old son. We took the Safari to Sequoia NP in August and Big Sur in November. Best boys vacations ever! That might of been the straw.,, Over $75K to date has gone into the black hole, and I thought after 2 day trial in September 2015, the end was in sight. While visiting family over Christmas back East, the AS that a court order gave me "Temporary, possession and control" in 2014 was taken from private property in plain sight in December 2015. Yes it was double locked on the hitch. The title was in both names and FYI, a / on a CA tile between the name means "and". Both parties are required to sign and therefore the title was forged( I lost count how many times that was done) and fraudulently conveyed. To date no information on the sale as I will have to wait to the next Ex parte( for one parties benefit) hearing in 2 weeks to see how a jaded, civil, bureaucrat decides value or legality of transfer of an old trailer or whether he'll assist in getting it back. Sadly, it continues to be lose/lose as petitioner & respondent both loved it and one party did not want to see the other one possibly enjoy it without them. I think it was simply, the death of so many dreams of the places they would go. To be continued...Thanks for letting me vent. Peace.

[Lily&Me]

A sad tale, indeed.

Head up, do your part, and trust that it will all work itself out....tho not necessarily as you would most prefer.

Concentrate on what is most important, that son of yours.

Good luck, and keep us posted.


Maggie

[xrvr]

Forging a title must be a criminal act. Both seller and buyer have responsibilities.

[tjdonahoe]

Interesting forum , as I went to grade school in Arroyo Grande and we try to visit there on our spring trips, the beaches there are wonderful,

[Echelon73]

The act of forgery is the big concern in my opinion. I do not know how California works, but in North Carolina the DMV always requires things of this nature to be notarized. This means a notary somewhere would have to lie about both parties signing the document. I would assume that would be a huge offense for the notary. Does California require the seller signatures to be notarized in order to transfer title ownership?

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by LiLNomad

Similar situation....My horse was stolen from the ranch where it was boarded. Somehow he ended up at the animal shelter who auctioned him off to the highest bidder. (I didnt even know animal shelters have horses which is why I never checked there during my search!) Despite a police report the animal shelter took the stance that he was "abandoned" Once I tracked down the new owners I went to his place of business (a veterinarian ofc) with the police officers in tow...I dont know what they said to him in private but he was quite agreeable to return my stolen horse to me. I still feel sorry for the pet owners in the waiting room who panicked when I waltzed in with the police in tow..one lady took her dog and ran outta there...hehe. It was then a argument between the animal shelter and the "new owner" regarding reimbursement of the adoption fees etc...
LilNomad

I ain't heard a good horse theivin' story in years. Got any good cattle rustlin' stories?

Jim

[Jim & Susan]

To SpottedEagle, Maybe I missed it, but do you know "how" the Airstreams were advertised/sold? Ebay? Local newspaper ad near where the ex lives? Craig's list? I would think Ebay might be of some assistance since it's "titled" property, they certainly would have a moral obligation to do so. CL will be of absolutely no assistance. Newspapers can't do much for you. Have you checked her relatives back yards? Do you have any suspicions at all about who the buyer(s) might be?

Is it possible that they weren't actually sold (yet) and they have just been moved out of spite?

Maybe if you posted a couple pictures here it would be helpful. Some vintage Airstreams like yours have unique modifications/dents/whatever that make them stand out. Many of the folks here can spot those types of things a mile away.

Just thinking out loud.

Jim

[OTRA15]

Good luck resolving this, and thanks for the heads up!

[Jim & Susan]

There's no way to say this next bit without sounding like a creep, but I'll try.

I would think that since you were given legal, temporary, custody of the objects mentioned, anybody else trying to exercise control over them would be in violation of a court order. That's criminal activity. Transferring the property without your consent would also be criminal. Remember the horse thief related above? Maybe the local sheriff would like to hear your story.

The Judge in this case would have the full power and authority to get to the bottom of this in your next hearing if she/he has the gumption. Assumption is that you all are appearing in a "regular" Family Law Court (however that's defined where you live). I once saw a Judge throw a mother in jail for not allowing the father his visitation rights with the kids. He literally had her hand-cuffed by the bailiff and escorted to the hoosegow for several hours until she regained her proper bearing. Sometimes the Judge does the right thing all the way 'round.....and sometimes, well, you know the rest.

Can you tell I used to be a Legal Assistant? That was half a lifetime ago. I lasted about four years. Couldn't take it any longer and moved on. It's a, um, crazy profession (trying to stay within the rules of the Forum here).

I am so, so sorry that you are going thru this. Protect that boy, no matter what else happens. We have a bunch of kids and grandkids. They are most precious things in our lives, and I thank God every day for them.

Jim

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

There's no way to say this next bit without sounding like a creep, but I'll try.



I would think that since you were given legal, temporary, custody of the objects mentioned, anybody else trying to exercise control over them would be in violation of a court order. That's criminal activity. Transferring the property without your consent would also be criminal. Remember the horse thief related above? Maybe the local sheriff would like to hear your story.



The Judge in this case would have the full power and authority to get to the bottom of this in your next hearing if she/he has the gumption. Assumption is that you all are appearing in a "regular" Family Law Court (however that's defined where you live). I once saw a Judge throw a mother in jail for not allowing the father his visitation rights with the kids. He literally had her hand-cuffed by the bailiff and escorted to the hoosegow for several hours until she regained her proper bearing. Sometimes the Judge does the right thing all the way 'round.....and sometimes, well, you know the rest.



Can you tell I used to be a Legal Assistant? That was half a lifetime ago. I lasted about four years. Couldn't take it any longer and moved on. It's a, um, crazy profession (trying to stay within the rules of the Forum here).



I am so, so sorry that you are going thru this. Protect that boy, no matter what else happens. We have a bunch of kids and grandkids. They are most precious things in our lives, and I thank God every day for them.



Jim

All great points, and I agree completely.

Be sure to bring up these facts in your next hearing. I would guess that your attorney would need to formalize it in a filing with the court, accusing the other side of violating the Order. Judges don't like being given the middle finger. Present it factually and completely, not emotionally.

This sounds all too familiar, unfortunately. My hopes for you that both sides will cooperate for your son's sake are pretty low. One side cannot make that happen, and if the other side has no real interest in making it happen, it won't be pretty. BUT, I still encourage YOU to maintain your composure, so that years down the road your son can see that you acted as a man with integrity.

One of the last things I was told by my ex as we were on the way to divorcing was, "I don't have anything to use against you except the kids, and I will." She lived up to that, to everyone's detriment. Do what you can to do the right thing.
In our case, the State required divorcing parents to attend a workshop that focused on what TO do and what NOT to do related to affecting children involved in the divorce. My ex seemed to flip all of that around backwards, as well as taking all of the DON'Ts mentioned in a book called Divorce Poison and using it as a how-to guide.

May God bless you and your "right" efforts!


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

[McDave]

I apologize for trying to benefit from someone's misfortune, but at least it's not at their expense. My only purpose is to try to avoid legal hassles for myself or another member in the future. California does not require signatures on a pink slip to be notarized. I'm sure that if you bought a used Airstream and one of the signatures on the pink slip was found to be forged, you would lose the Airstream and your only recourse would be against the party you paid the money to (the forger, in other words). Good luck with that. Even though California does not require signatures on a pink slip to be notarized, there is nothing preventing you from requiring notarization of the signatures of any of the owners who don't sign in your presence. For those who are present, I would keep photocopies of their picture ID's.

I'm sure that prior to reading this, I would feel safe if I had the pink slip signed off by all listed owners. But after hearing this sad tale, I would now go the extra step above, at least.




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[Jim & Susan]

In Georgia, if the vehicle is over 10 years old, you don't need a title, just a bill of sale. This includes RV's. The presumption is that if it's that old, it's considered abandoned or the title is lost.

I wonder if there is a national database of stolen vehicles? My point being, I wonder if the state runs the VIN against a database of some kind before issuing a new title. And maybe SpottedEagle could possibly report it as "stolen" and have it added to said (possibly mythical) database.

Jim

[AWCHIEF]

With all this well intentioned free legal advice it would be nice to hear the other side of the story. Opinions might change.

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

With all this well intentioned free legal advice it would be nice to hear the other side of the story. Opinions might change.

Somebody send her a link to AirForums, quick!!!! Free mediation..... Not too sure how binding it is. 😀👌


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored