Lightship L1 - All Electric RV

[FredWilma]

27' All electric trailer - composite body, 3KW solar 80KWhr battery, aerodynamic, $150K

https://lightshiprv.com/l1

Beating Airstream to the market ?

[coltnkat]

$150k for a pop up with limited storage (b/c pop up) and no published tank capacity. What's the point of all electric if you can't be off grid due to tiny holding tanks?

I like the innovation, but this product doesn't seem like it was created by actual RVers.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by coltnkat

$150k for a pop up with limited storage (b/c pop up) and no published tank capacity. What's the point of all electric if you can't be off grid due to tiny holding tanks?

I like the innovation, but this product doesn't seem like it was created by actual RVers.

There is an interview with the leaders of LightShip on YouTube. They very clearly said water and waste storage is an area not yet fully represented in the "alpha" prototype.

This is a 33 employee, venture capital startup. They are working on the future. Let's give them a chance.

[coltnkat]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

There is an interview with the leaders of LightShip on YouTube. They very clearly said water and waste storage is an area not yet fully represented in the "alpha" prototype.

This is a 33 employee, venture capital startup. They are working on the future. Let's give them a chance.

I hear you, but I guess I need someone to explain the use case of $150k pop-up to me. Who is that for?

I can tell you right now that a 27ft chassis with batteries underneath cannot have adequate capacity for water and waste. Then there's storage. By eliminating all vertical space, you're going the halve your storage capacity.

Again, I'm all for innovation, but this is RV 101.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by coltnkat

I hear you, but I guess I need someone to explain the use case of $150k pop-up to me. Who is that for?

I can tell you right now that a 27ft chassis with batteries underneath cannot have adequate capacity for water and waste. Then there's storage. By eliminating all vertical space, you're going the halve your storage capacity.

Again, I'm all for innovation, but this is RV 101.

If you really care about what LightShip is doing I suggest you take a $500 refundable position for the new RV. Why is this important? It is the signal to the venture capital community that these ideas have traction. The worst case is you tie up $500 for a year or two to make the decision if what they have done is right for you.

I placed a deposit and am going to schedule a visit to see how they are doing. The founders seem to be some bright kids from Tesla with passion.

[FredWilma]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

There is an interview with the leaders of LightShip on YouTube. They very clearly said water and waste storage is an area not yet fully represented in the "alpha" prototype.

This is a 33 employee, venture capital startup. They are working on the future. Let's give them a chance.

Agree.

There's a lot of detailed specs missing: tanks, heating? cooling, refrigeration etc. but I am assuming that will come. Certainly, storage will be reduced because of the pop up design, that will be a compromise some will be willing to trade

[FredWilma]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

If you really care about what LightShip is doing I suggest you take a $500 refundable position for the new RV. Why is this important? It is the signal to the venture capital community that these ideas have traction. The worst case is you tie up $500 for a year or two to make the decision if what they have done is right for you.

I placed a deposit and am going to schedule a visit to see how they are doing. The founders seem to be some bright kids from Tesla with passion.

I have also placed a deposit. Let's see how it goes.

[xpcdoojk]

Reminds me of the Jeep Gladiator forum when Elon Musk announced the Tesla Truck. I need to remind those people who put a deposit down on that truck, that they were scammed out of their money!

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

I have also placed a deposit. Let's see how it goes.

That's great. The more Airstream owners who take a refundable position on something like LightShip it will be a strong signal to Airstream to get moving on their "concept" trailer.

[FredWilma]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

That's great. The more Airstream owners who take a refundable position on something like LightShip it will be a strong signal to Airstream to get moving on their "concept" trailer.

Could not agree more.

The potential advantage Airstream has is access to capital. However, from what I can see, their concept was fairly underwhelming compared to this.

There are others out there trying to address this market, Bowlus and Living Vehicle for example - but they are super expensive and also have their compromises, as will any first gen trailer in this space.

[FredWilma]

@Goldenchase.

I'm assuming we could charge this trailer from the Powerboost ?

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

@Goldenchase.

I'm assuming we could charge this trailer from the Powerboost ?

No reason why not, though based on the walkthrough video these guys are clearly aiming for the Tesla Truck/F-150 Lightning for a TV. They claim with the assist from the trailer motor these electric trucks will get normal range.

The F-150 PowerBoost with the 7.2kw generator clearly offers an advantage as the trailer could be fully charged when reaching the destination by an umbilical to the PowerBoost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLoS01vsVvQ

[FredWilma]

Where are these going to be built? They seem to be based on San Francisco and Boulder. Is Boulder their manufacturing center ?

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

Where are these going to be built? They seem to be based on San Francisco and Boulder. Is Boulder their manufacturing center ?

Seemed to be a suggestion in the video that they were considering Colorado.

One of my many unanswered questions about this project is how they are going to heat it below 45F. In the video they just said that heating and cooling was going to be done with a heat pump. But of course they don't really work below 45F.

I ran head long into this problem building my Electric Airstream. Heating with resistive or heat pump sources uses a lot of electricity. I finally opted for the very quiet and efficient Espar diesel heaters. They are so efficient you really don't need much diesel on board and diesel is really easy to get.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

One of my many unanswered questions about this project is how they are going to heat it below 45F. In the video they just said that heating and cooling was going to be done with a heat pump. But of course they don't really work below 45F.

Maybe that’s true with the Dometic heat pumps that Airstream uses, but our heat pump at home works fine down to freezing, and then struggles after that, though can still keep our house just above 60 even with consistent 20 degree temps. (The frequency of defrost cycles is the issue at lower temps.)

Still obviously a limitation though. Many homes with heat pumps add an additional supplemental heat source in really cold weather. Still a large power draw though. Although electric cars are able to manage. I’ll be curious to see what they come up with.

[FredWilma]

Maybe the higher voltage architecture of the L1 will provide more options for heating and cooling.

Agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions - which no doubt will be resolved in the coming 24 months.

A concern I would have is around weight distribution and tongue weight. In a video interview the CEO of Lightship said that the fresh water and tank capacities would be commensurate with their design case for the power systems - which is 7 days off the grid. That will mean different things to different people, but for me that would mean 40 - 50 gallons of fresh water and grey tanks of around 35 gallons.

I noted also from the same video that the fresh water tank is currently located forward of the axles - which could be challenging in terms of tongue weight. Theyre designing this clearly with an EV as a tow vehicle in mind, which all seem to have relatively low payloads (I understand the RV1 specced with a high capacity battery will have a payload of around 1500 lb for example). If that is the case, then tongue weight is going to be critical, and I am guessing theyre going to be aiming for around 800 lbs (gross trailer weight is 7,500lb).

I will watch with interest.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

Maybe the higher voltage architecture of the L1 will provide more options for heating and cooling.

Agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions - which no doubt will be resolved in the coming 24 months.

A concern I would have is around weight distribution and tongue weight. In a video interview the CEO of Lightship said that the fresh water and tank capacities would be commensurate with their design case for the power systems - which is 7 days off the grid. That will mean different things to different people, but for me that would mean 40 - 50 gallons of fresh water and grey tanks of around 35 gallons.

I noted also from the same video that the fresh water tank is currently located forward of the axles - which could be challenging in terms of tongue weight. Theyre designing this clearly with an EV as a tow vehicle in mind, which all seem to have relatively low payloads (I understand the RV1 specced with a high capacity battery will have a payload of around 1500 lb for example). If that is the case, then tongue weight is going to be critical, and I am guessing theyre going to be aiming for around 800 lbs (gross trailer weight is 7,500lb).

I will watch with interest.

All good questions. They also said they are going to be reaching out to position holders for input. Battery and drive train weight is going to heavily influence the ultimate weight and balance issues for a rig like this. It looks like they have solved one big issue, aerodynamics. With the combination of a powered drive train and much better aerodynamics they think the TV will have "normal" efficiency/fuel economy. So while they have an EV in mind as a TV, the same benifit will fall to a hybrid F-150. But the difference is that the hybrid F-150 will also be able to supply power to the trailer motor moving down the road.

A very interesting product. I will be fun to watch.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

Maybe the higher voltage architecture of the L1 will provide more options for heating and cooling.

Agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions - which no doubt will be resolved in the coming 24 months.

A concern I would have is around weight distribution and tongue weight. In a video interview the CEO of Lightship said that the fresh water and tank capacities would be commensurate with their design case for the power systems - which is 7 days off the grid. That will mean different things to different people, but for me that would mean 40 - 50 gallons of fresh water and grey tanks of around 35 gallons.

I noted also from the same video that the fresh water tank is currently located forward of the axles - which could be challenging in terms of tongue weight. They're designing this clearly with an EV as a tow vehicle in mind, which all seem to have relatively low payloads (I understand the RV1 spec'ed with a high capacity battery will have a payload of around 1500 lb for example). If that is the case, then tongue weight is going to be critical, and I am guessing they're going to be aiming for around 800 lbs (gross trailer weight is 7,500lb).

I will watch with interest.

Agree there are lots of unanswered questions, but that is to be expected at this point in the development. Lots of good ideas are being incorporated IMO.

We are used to considering tanks located near the axle centrelines as best practice, but the same is true of heavy batteries. They are going to have to work that out.

Not sure they should aim for 10-15% tongue weight, with the trailer wheels independently driven. A dynamic stability control system and trailer wheel motor torque vectoring, as has already been included on other BEV trailer prototypes, mean that they may be fine with the 5% range, with good towing stability. We'll have to see.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by jcl

Not sure they should aim for 10-15% tongue weight, with the trailer wheels independently driven. A dynamic stability control system and trailer wheel motor torque vectoring, as has already been included on other BEV trailer prototypes, mean that they may be fine with the 5% range, with good towing stability. We'll have to see.

They need the lower tongue weight because the electric and hybrid TV's are payload limited.

[FredWilma]

Interestingly it seems like there are tax credits available for this as well - around $6,000.