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09-17-2010, 09:06 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Items of interest from 9/16 plant tour
I'm not sure where to put these nuggets of info, so I'll go off topic. Some may be old news, but new to me. Sorry if it's redundant.
AS has installed, (but not up and running yet) Laser cutters for all the openings in the skin. This should eliminated the potential human error of measuring each opening and routing the hole.
About 3 months ago they started using tape for sealing the skin seams "just like the old days" according to the tour guide. I am unclear on whether he meant within the skin seam or on the inside of the outer skin. He said is is a butyl tape.
As of "about 5 years ago" all AS have the silver "foil" insulation between the floor and frame. No pink stuff.
AS built for Europe have floors made of two sheets of aluminum with a foamboard sandwiched between them. These units are only 90" wide and are on an aluminum frame imported from Europe and exported back. All this for narrow roads and low weight for tiny cars. Thy are $$$$$$.
Pan Am and slideout models are no more (at least for now).
Chevrolet based Class B's sarted shipping to dealers a week ago or so.
That's all I recall right now.
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09-17-2010, 12:07 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 973
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They used to use the butyl tape as a thermal break between the skin and the frame, so that may be what they're doing again. I will certainly be using butyl tape to insulate my inner skin from the frame on my next resto, because the frame is an excellent conductor of heat from the outer to the inner skin.
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TX-16
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09-17-2010, 12:29 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2007 25' Classic
Hydes
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 713
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Hey, I have an idea . Offer those European models over here. Wow ,Aluminum frames and floors. I guess they just figure we love those rusting steel frames and particle board floors.
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09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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the plant tour IS fun...
getting the info right ON the tour isn't easy,
and often takes doin' the tour many times.
butyl tape is and HAS been used for many years...
as a thermal break between OUTER skin and ribs.
this goes back to when 3 piece ribs started
and PUSHED out corner radii, so approaching 17-18 yrs.
________
the euro units do NOT have aluminum floors OR frames.
they do have galvanized steel frames assembled like recto'sets...
and styro/styrene core/wood ply sandwich subflooring....
see da pics here (take well after the camera ban... )
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f341...ead-35473.html
_________
no idea what 'sealing the skin with tape' means,
perhaps this is a reference to how sealants are now applied b'tween skin overlaps.
don't worry about getting the details right dz'...
there are 100s of threads with 'tour stories' and they're all a bit different...
sorta like the streamz...
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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09-17-2010, 12:48 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin
, Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Park
They used to use the butyl tape as a thermal break between the skin and the frame, so that may be what they're doing again. I will certainly be using butyl tape to insulate my inner skin from the frame on my next resto, because the frame is an excellent conductor of heat from the outer to the inner skin.
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Dave, the butyl tape is used between the laps of the skin where they overlap and rivet. Metal buildings use the same tape on the panels where they overlap. Good long lasting stuff, dont know why they stopped using it.
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09-17-2010, 12:59 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 973
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As 2air said, I don't think there's two identical airstreams in the entire world, they're so hit and miss. My A/S used to have butyl tape between the frame and outer skin, but not between the frame and inner skin, or between skin sheets. There was a vulkem-type product between the exterior skin sheets, but it wasn't butyl or a tape.
I am sure others have all sorts of combinations. I just wish they'd use the butyl tape everywhere - it's not expensive or hard to use.
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TX-16
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09-17-2010, 01:43 PM
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#7
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Weldon Spring
, Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 463
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Items of disappointment from recent plant tour:
1) Tourguide spent entirely too much time reminding us of his 50 plus year tenure with Airstream, along with pointing out several buddies of his along the way, each with similar longevity.....during which time we got to stand there waiting, while he had a nice little personal chat with each of them. (I know, that could be an intentional marketing strategy, but frustrating for me).
2) Tourguide proudly proclaimed AT LEAST twice: "They've got ALL the conveniences!!" (Well, OF COURSE they do! The cheapest box trailer coming down the line at the Jayco plant has "ALL the conveniences"! While I can imagine Wally Byam successfully using that line in the 1950's, the RV world has come a long way since then, so please, lose that one!)
3) Tourguide seemed "stingy" with information: "Here's where they make the doors"....(we all stand there and watch that for a while, then move to another spot)...."Here's where they test for leaks".....(then we all stand THERE for a while watching that). If asked a direct question he would respond, of course, but otherwise little information was offered. (I think most of us here on the forum could have provided more interesting information, along with showing a little enthusiasm.)
Now, to be completely fair to the tourguide, he had to do battle the ENTIRE time, beginning in the lobby, with a primitive, INTERMITTENT portable P.A. system, which I'm sure became even more disconcerting to him than it was to me!! Nevertheless, I think it's time for Airstream to make some improvements (not just changes) to the factory tour.
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09-17-2010, 04:02 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Well, the guide did seem to contradict himself several times. He is 80, ya know. Not trying to be offensive....but. Anyway the butyl tape is in the skin seams instead of the liquid sealer used for many years. It is still used between the ribs and outer skin as well. I could just see some in the seam and it appeared dark in color. Guide said that it is more difficult to get a flat seam with it as it is bulkier than liquid....but supposedly seals better and lasts longer under road vibrations.
2air, he definitely said sandwiched aluminum floor for Europe and aluminum frame.....maybe what he means and what he says gets discombobulated sometimes??? None there to look at.
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09-17-2010, 04:31 PM
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#9
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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dz'
the post doesn't mention WHO has issues gettin' it right on da tour...
don is a great guy and yes he's ancient...
isn't 80 the new 50?
he's also not entirely well, but still comes in day after day.
in fact he's probably tardy fewer dayz than the big wigs.
taking the tour is fun for us, it's a chore for don, but a good chore.
besides it's not about just getting the latest greatest news,
stepping over tools, in and out of units IN assembly
and looking at piles of batteries, sealant, shower stalls and mouse fur...
it's like going to a shiny riveted whaling wall for this secular obsession.
and each experiences it differently or not at all.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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09-17-2010, 04:37 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
dz'
the post doesn't mention WHO has issues gettin' it right on da tour...
don is a great guy and yes he's ancient...
isn't 80 the new 50?
he's also not entirely well, but still comes in day after day.
in fact he's probably tardy fewer dayz than the big wigs.
taking the tour is fun for us, it's a chore for don, but a good chore.
besides it's not about just getting the latest greatest news,
stepping over tools, in and out of units IN assembly
and looking at piles of batteries, sealant, shower stalls and mouse fur...
it's like going to a shiny riveted whaling wall for this secular obsession.
and each experiences it differently or not at all.
cheers
2air'
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I passed over your comments before. I know what I heard.
Have ya got some kind of superiority complex which forces you to continually put others down?
And yes, all those parts are VERY distracting. I was like...I need one of those....some of that....etc.
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09-17-2010, 05:06 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin
, Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Park
My A/S used to have butyl tape between the frame and outer skin, but not between the frame and inner skin, or between skin sheets. There was a vulkem-type product between the exterior skin sheets, but it wasn't butyl or a tape.
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After thinking about it I went duh, butyl is too thick for sheet skins, vulkem is the stuff. Butyl and vulkem are excellent long lasting products.
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09-17-2010, 05:48 PM
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#12
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
I passed over your comments before. I know what I heard...
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where does ne1 question what u heard?
point that out 4 the confused reading this (like me)
did don say aluminum and did the tour group hear aluminum ?
eye got no idea.
so is that the issue, subfloors and frames?
my comment about NO ALUMINUM subfloors and frames...
was as much for craftsman as ne1 else.
nothing anywhere (except this thread)
suggests they've adapted alum to frames OR subfloors for euro models.
i've posted a LINK to photo evidence of what's used....
if u wanna clarify it further, email tech support or a EURO stream dealer n ask.
and i'll pass over your comments NOW too...
but there r folks who have some sort of inferiority complex that forces them 2 c putdowns that don't exist.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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09-17-2010, 06:03 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Winston Salem
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 524
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__________________
Greg
Winston Salem, NC
WBCCI 5218,
Corresponding Secretary Piedmont NC Unit 161,
1967 Overlander International.
1979 Avion 30ft rear bath
TV's 88 Chevy Suburban 454, 3:42, TH400
95 Cadillac FW Brougham, LT1,3:42, 7k tow pk.
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09-17-2010, 06:03 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 973
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Am I the only person who automatically skips over double spaced posts that verge on spam?
For on-topicness: butyl tape is getting more expensive. Has anyone seen a good priced supplier recently?
__________________
TX-16
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09-17-2010, 06:04 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,082
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The Friday tours are really nice because the plant closes down and only works a half a day. That is when you can learn the most. Don has plenty to say when he isn't talking over noise or when anyone shows interest. The tours can be longer if you like and generally you can spend time on what interests you the most and Don will accommodate those on the tour. I wish I knew how many times I have taken the tour. I only know that three times in one visit may have been the single visit record for me. I learn something new each time but I love spending time in the models at the end of the line ready to go just about. We have even been there in the winter and Don drove the couple of us over to the factory, yeah small group. I like getting the free pen too.
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09-17-2010, 06:49 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 973
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I want the free pen!
Edit: Aww, man, I totally yelled that, but when I posted it the forum stripped out the caps... So, for edit's sake....
I WANT THE FREE PEN!!!
__________________
TX-16
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09-17-2010, 11:34 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Park
Am I the only person who automatically skips over double spaced posts that verge on spam?
For on-topicness: butyl tape is getting more expensive. Has anyone seen a good priced supplier recently?
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No, but it's good stuff. It's WAAAY better that the gooey stuff where you need to fill a large gap. And it seemed to last forever in my old SOB. And believe me I made that POS live way beyond it's normal mileage and life. I understand it's a hunting cabin now.
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09-17-2010, 11:37 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Park
I want the free pen!
Edit: Aww, man, I totally yelled that, but when I posted it the forum stripped out the caps... So, for edit's sake....
I WANT THE FREE PEN!!!
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Just send $16.95 plus shipping and postage.
Operators are standing...bye
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09-18-2010, 08:06 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2004 30' Classic Slideout
2021 33FB Classic
Colleyville
, TX
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,540
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What? No more slide outs? Good grief, we really do own a "CLASSIC"!
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In dog years, I'm dead!
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