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john hd · 01-25-2005, 04:20 PM

chuck and roger,

unfortunately for you guys the radical "ists" comprise the leadership of your party.

that is why the dems lose elections when exposed to the "rest" of america. on the night of the election i knew W was gonna win. despite what the move on.org exit polls were saying. that is because the gay marriage referendums in 11 states were defeated.

john kerry is an eliteist, plain and simple. that is why that map i posted about ten pages back looks the way it does.

he even stiffed the city i live in for 90,000 bucks for police protection, at his rally that was sponsered by my ibew local.

so, even though i didn't vote for him and he lost, my taxes and my union dues are gonna go up!

john

85MH325 · 01-25-2005, 04:49 PM

Unfortunately, John you're right. However the radical "ists" control the other (dark) side as well.

If both sides can find some "Centr" "ists" to begin governing on some middle ground, we'll all be much better off!

Roger

Silvertwinkie · 01-25-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Unfortunately, John you're right. However the radical "ists" control the other (dark) side as well.

If both sides can find some "Centr" "ists" to begin governing on some middle ground, we'll all be much better off!

Roger

Now there is something I can agree with, but I will say this, the Republicans own the executive and the legislative, so it's really up to the Reds to get it going, middle isn't as important really if you think about it right now......

GStephens · 01-25-2005, 07:33 PM

I have really enjoyed this thread. Like an earlier post postulated, we have many intelligent members on the forum.

In addition to ranching, I taught courses in State and Federal Government at a nearby University for 20 years. I always felt it to be inappropriate for me to try and make any of my students into liberals or conservatives on any particular issue. I always tried to give at least two sides to every issue and to teach my students that most issues have multiple sides. It was my job to get students to realize that there were various issues out there that they should develop an opinion about. Many of my students admitted that they never listened to a news program before taking my class. I also felt it was my job to enable the young people in my classes accustomed to never disagreeing with their teachers to actively argue with me and their peers in a constructive way. That is what citizenship is all about.

The most difficult task I faced was in getting my students to feel free to discuss various issues. Unfortunately, we aren’t all as diplomatically skilled in debate. Many of us were taught not to discuss politics and religion. Sometimes our responses are so influenced by our deep seated emotions that we find it exceedingly difficult to discuss certain issues or entertain alternate ways of looking at things. Sometimes we are hesitant because we have faced ridicule in the past for expressing our thoughts. It is certainly safer and easier to just keep our thoughts to ourselves, but for the sake of our communities and our nation, constructive debate is essential to our getting a good understanding of the problems we face and perhaps gaining a handle on how best to address those problems. None of us individually has the definitive understanding of, and answer for, each and every problem our communities face. So I encouraged discussion and debate. It didn't matter how well a person could defend his position or what particular side of the issue the person was on. I just wanted to hear his position. Practice makes perfect. Keep on arguing. Argument is good. Hopefully, with a little practice, those of us less skilled in diplomatic argument will become better at argument and we might even begin to be more tolerant of others ideas. Perhaps we might even learn a little from those with whom we may initially disagree. My dad used to say that he should be able to admire a man’s cows without having to feed them. It is the same with political discourse. We should be able to listen to another man’s (or woman's) view without necessarily having to agree with him/her. We go to church on Sundays in various places of worship and then get along with each other throughout the rest of the week. We should be able to have political discourse and elections and still be friends when the discussion or election is over.
GStephens

Hippo · 01-26-2005, 02:29 PM

GStephens thanks for your comments. You are right about self expression. We have been taught not to talk about things. We have been taught to be good citizens go to work, do as we are told, go home and do as we are told by the house boss. Only when men go to the barber shop can we speak our mind about life. Some people only talk about sports. I am glad you let us know your thoughts.

maxandgeorgia · 01-26-2005, 05:27 PM

I think one of the most fascinating aspects of this entire discourse is its originator: Chris, AKA Canny Banjo Man, from "across the pond," as he loves to say. None of us --on this side of the pond--opened up this discussion. He did. Maybe as GStephens says above, we are too reluctant to open up talk that is challenging and potentially volatile. And look at the talk that erupted! Maybe this is one of those "Only in America" events: a forum thread that boils and bubbles, changes directions, laughs at itself, yells and harangues a little, circles back, and begins again! Thanks, Chris, for making us look at ourselves and our beliefs, prejudices, and foibles. This is entertaining, thought provoking, and All American! So, do we change our signatures to the kind of towv, faith denomination, political alignment, fuel preference. . .shucks, no! Shel Silverstein wrote a poem about how we would all look alike if God just turned off the light. I kind of like us with the lights turned off, just knowing we all love Airstreams!

RickStream · 01-26-2005, 07:33 PM

W

Hippo · 01-27-2005, 03:33 PM

Hey the California Train Wreck yesterday was a terrorist act in America. This time it was not G.W. Bush's fault. Eleven people dead and 200 injured. The media did not report much about it. When it comes to IRAQ they spend much more time telling us.

Pschoerrn · 01-27-2005, 03:48 PM

Are you shure it was a terrorist act?? They (the german news channels, plus bbc world, plus euronews and cnn europe)said it was a 25 year old man who wanted to commit suicide... He tried it twice before (with a knife and medecine) and he just got out of his jeep before the trains crashed.

So this time it really wasn´t GWB fault

.

**Stefrobrts** · 01-27-2005, 05:57 PM

The media did not report much about it? It's all that's been on for the last two days! Not a terrorist act, just a tragic accident.

Though I agree, it's not Bush's fault.

Porky Pig · 01-27-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippo

Hey the California Train Wreck yesterday was a terrorist act in America. This time it was not G.W. Bush's fault. Eleven people dead and 200 injured. The media did not report much about it. When it comes to IRAQ they spend much more time telling us.

That's just plain wrong. The wreck was caused by a nut job .. not a terrorist.

As for the media ... here in Arizona ... the wreck made page 6 ... Iraq coverage was on page 12.

john hd · 01-27-2005, 06:06 PM

i have to admit, as soon as the news of the train wreck started. i thought for sure it was a terrorist attack.

relieved to find out otherwise.

either way a tragic event. i have a friend that works for metra in chicago, he tells me suicide by train is a common ocurrance there. most of the incidents are by pedestrians.

john

**Stefrobrts** · 01-27-2005, 06:28 PM

It was front page news here. What's up in AZ to fill the first six pages? They get a little rain and that's all they can talk about?

(just kidding, I know the rain is causing a lot of trouble down there)

CanoeStream · 01-27-2005, 09:04 PM

...but couldn't resist for a towing question.

eBay is very secretive on engine size and rear-end ratio in the Bush Mobile. Anybody here know whether this could tow a 34 footer? Now that is without the bass boat hooked to the rear of the trailer, y'know.

The auction is over -- maybe the PO would listen to an offer...

71_safari · 01-27-2005, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canoe stream

...but couldn't resist for a towing question.

eBay is very secretive on engine size and rear-end ratio in the Bush Mobile. Anybody here know whether this could tow a 34 footer? Now that is without the bass boat hooked to the rear of the trailer, y'know.

The auction is over -- maybe the PO would listen to an offer...

Nope, it's a half-ton (look at the wheels).

Silvertwinkie · 01-28-2005, 06:55 AM

I found this interesting..on the main page of this thread (page 1) the banner on the top, links to this amazon page for this certain book!

LOL!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

norbert · 01-28-2005, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hd

i have a friend that works for metra in chicago, he tells me suicide by train is a common ocurrance there. most of the incidents are by pedestrians.

john

SPLATT!

winner · 01-28-2005, 09:33 AM

I think you are a bit deluded if you think the moderators are permissive in allowing posts -they(which) are not allowing frank and candid posts of truthful aspects concerning this president -- I.e., he is a reformed drunk, and he did misrepresent the truth in many of his remarks and has made some very serious mistakes in judgement concerning the deployment of our military. He persists in playing the religion card attached to his international policies. So in conclusion dschuchfc, the moderators have not been clearly permissive in allowing this spirited discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by dscluchfc

I am thankful that the moderators have allowed this spirited discussion of an important day in our National history.
It is truly an American thing to do. Discuss with passion, and let the debate roll, agreeing to disagree, or agreeing to compromise in the middle, it is the pen and the debate that made this country great in it's ideals and Constitution.
Thanks again.

ALANSD · 01-28-2005, 09:48 AM

so you think we mods have edited this thread? Not so. I edited out the cartoon image which added nothing to the content. I don't think anything else has been trimmed. Speak your piece, even if we all disagree...hey its America. If it gets into a "flaming" situation, it will be trimmed as necessary.
IMHOP It would be nice if we could stick to Airstream related stuff , but this forum is aptly named., and as such let it fly.

**Stefrobrts** · 01-28-2005, 10:06 AM

I think it's great we have a forum where we can do this. I am on another car-enthusiast forum where it is all business, and as a result you never get to know anyone over there. Over here we talk openly, and get to see each other as real people with real concerns. This discussion has been very interesting, and I've disagreed with some folks, but it doesn't mean we're not friends anymore. That's pretty cool.