Driving defensively against offensive drivers

[McDave]

I guess I was sort of aware in the back of my mind about the possibility of staged accidents, but I had no idea it was becoming so common, or the variety of ways an accident could be staged. Based on their discussion of staged witnesses, it would seem important if you witness an accident to be a good Samaritan and offer a report, even if there seems to be other witnesses on the scene.

[Gearheart]

One of the reasons I have a dash cam running while I drive. Idiots can't argue with the pictures.

[PKI]

This is a terrible thread. Raised my BP 10 points. Thanks for starting it. I'll be back to normal when I hit submit.

Limited access entry. Don't mind the folks that hurry up to get in front of me. There is usually room and I can slow a bit. Absolutely hate the folks that enter at their speed and pace our speed and just move over expecting the world will move for them. Solution is to drive in lane number 3 of 4. Give the entry folks their lane. The faster folks can still get around you. If only 3 then work back and forth between 2 and 3 as traffic allows. Some cities are directing you to pull left to reduce the entry conflict. On a two lane, drive defensively like you all said!

Trucks that waggle. Really hate to follow a truck that is drifting onto the shoulder over and over and over again. Brrrrrr, brrrrrr, BRRRR is a sound that I hate. Good time to slow down and wait for him to pull of for fuel. Might just be time for lunch or a pit stop.

Pop outs. Trucks that pass by waiting until the truck in front slowes just a bit and then pop out in front of you to pass and a real safety hazard. And it's frustrating when they run 0.25 mph faster than the truck they are passing, but fall back a bit on hills and stay in the passing lane until they retire. Slow down and let them go their way. Make time when you hit the hills.

Pull ins. The passenger cars and some trucks can be a real pain when they just get past you and pull in front with less than appropriate stopping distance. When they keep pulling away, at least the hazard is mitigated. When they slow for a hill, not so much.

Think I'll stop here and have a sandwich. It really is the right solution on the road too. We generally travel slower than most trucks and that helps. The hassle is in areas where speed limits are enforced and folks want to travel just at the limit. If it's 70+, no problem. If it 55 ...... you just have to deal with it.

Again, a very worth while thread, just makes me prone to rant. Better here than there. Pat

[Piggy Bank]

Good thready.

I remember from drivers ed, many decades ago.

Always leave yourself an "out", and know what it is. You can speed up, slow down, or change lanes.

I would have to say for me, that my #1 gripe is people who don't pass others properly/safely.

On the interstate or other divided highway, don't enter the passing lane to the left of a vehicle (especially a semi truck) while there is another car passing. Because now you don't have your "out". And stay in the passing lane long enough so that when you pull back in front of the vehicle you just passed, that vehicle still has that 2 second distance between you both. I was taught to not pull back to the thru lane until both headlights of the vehicle just passed are visible in the rear view mirror.

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by NWGetaways

Just like the classic "Just Say No" campaign that stopped teenage drug abuse

Great ideas

[SeaLevel]

Self-driving vehicles should improve things. Most of us will see this shift happen during our lifetime.

[AWCHIEF]

Once upon a time Drivers Education was mandatory to graduate high school and to get a driver's license in Mississippi. People actually seemed to have a concept of how to properly operate a motor vehicle. With the idiots on the road these days and the way they drive it is easy to see the results of dropping that requirement.

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by SeaLevel

Self-driving vehicles should improve things. Most of us will see this shift happen during our lifetime.

The number of documented accidents happening with test self drive vehicles does not look good for its future. However I too believe that one day it will be a normal mode of transportation. And one day we have colonies on the moon and Mars.

[Wingeezer]

Something we noticed this year driving in Southeastern states is that a very large portion of the other drivers we encountered - at least on interstates - change lanes with gay abandon never bothering to signal their intentions. Dangerous? maybe not that much, but at least not very considerate!

Am I right about this phenomenon? it sure seemed that way to us, someone signalling a lane change almost seemed the exception. The further north we traveled on our homeward journey (and also when back back home) the propensity to signal ones's intentions seemed to be the norm again! Always some exceptions of course.

We even saw a pickup truck in a campground in Florida with a great home-made sign on the tailgate that read "Blinky thing means turning!!!" Great!

Incidentally I agree with Steve's (UKTOAD) comment that motor cycle riding makes you a much more defensive - and hopefully better - driver, whether on a bike or in a car, the habit is transferable.

To protect your life, You learn to be constantly watching the other guy assuming that he or she may do something stupid, and deciding what you must do if/when does!

A good thing to do I think!


Brian.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

The number of documented accidents happening with test self drive vehicles does not look good for its future.

Data? The article I just read the other day stated that of the 18 accidents involving one of the Google self-driving cars, in only one were they even partially at fault. In that case it was going 2 mph and failed to yield to a bus.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Something we noticed this year driving in Southeastern states is that a very large portion of the other drivers we encountered - at least on interstates - change lanes with gay abandon never bothering to signal their intentions. Dangerous? maybe not that much, but at least not very considerate!

Am I right about this phenomenon? it sure seemed that way to us, someone signalling a lane change almost seemed the exception.

In the New Orleans metro area, using your turn signals to signal lane changes usually tells the driver behind you, "Hurry up and change lanes before I do and cut me off, because this lane is about to slow down, and otherwise you'll have to slow down too!" They always assume that the only reason that you're changing lanes is that you're in as much of a hurry as they are. Naturally few people use their turn signals for lane changes as a result.

Same way that leaving a safe following distance between you and the car in front of you is seen as an open invitation to the guy in the next lane to cut you off because you left plenty of room, just for him. After all, if you were in a hurry, you'd be riding the bumper of the car in front, same as they do— so you obviously won't mind if they make you slow down even more.

[slowmover]

Giving ROW to idiots usually means problems for those behind or next to one. Be damned sure one problem doesn't morph into a giant one. It happens to me regularly that an idiot cuts in front of me due to "defensive driving".

The art of merging onto highways has disappeared. Easy as pie in a car when one is a little over the upper limit. And today's cars have boatloads of power.

No, it's run up to the bumper of the car ahead also entering the freeway and Lane Two will have to give way (on the rural Interstate) for an entering group. Wow. Sometimes we don't. Changing into another lane means giving up ROW. Bad scenario for liability. Terrible F'n habit to establish.

It's no joke, however, that the increasingly large group of below average IQ now present in this country cannot process the information from their mirrors. Too much of an abstraction. Most don't even try. Have to deal with it daily. Blaming phones and other distractions is a cover. It's stupidity.

For only stupidity explains cutting in front of a big truck at 67-mph to let faster traffic get by. There's no ROW in the left lane. None.

I get on the Interstate daily several times and usually between 35-45/mph. Rarely a problem. And I always leave room to come a stop if need dictates. Haven't had to yet. Come damned close a few times.

I get a kick out of those who speed up as I signal a lane change a few miles from my exit, especially as I'm not asking their permission.

There's usually a way to decipher the flow of traffic. The usual breakout of time and location is first, weather and road condition next.

Fifty to one hundred miles from a major metro is a boundary. Those are the dummies who moved farther out to get more house, but run 40k miles year for no savings worth mentioning. Almost the worst large group. Look for the university sticker and little fish symbol.

Using a GPS with an enormous screen [7"] is a great information manager. I can make decisions on lane choice far in advance. And widen the view to thirty miles to see most of a big metro area. It's not the end all to planning, but great when underway.

I don't tow the Silver Streak as fast as I drive a big truck. I'm not at work. So, attention to what is coming up behind me and seeing what is ahead is the easiest way to settle problems well in advance.

I'm below the flow of the 63-65/mph governed trucks when on vacation. A group of them ahead of me and the usual pack of legally defined morons coming up behind me means I override the cruise and get around the big trucks. This keeps momentum or flow, easy.

A little the same for those same big trucks passing. Drop off the cruise substantially, even tap the brakes, so that as they pass I'm WELL below their speed, but have re-established enough throttle to keep the rig straight. Keep their passing time as short as possible.

Always a bad idea to spend any more time than necessary next to a big truck.

And I don't ever move to the right of the lane unless that big truck is flying.
The dummies tend to ALWAYS pass with the same amount of separation distance. You move right and so will they. Push em over to the left of their lane, if anything. It works. (SWIFT = Sure Wished I Finished Training. It's practically a canard that when the CB lights up with an accident involving a big truck, there's a Swift truck involved. Or, Schneider or JB Hunt. Firms that grind down new guys to nothing).

Anyone hitting the brakes extra hard a few times on a long trip needs a new strategy. Experience will get most of it done. I'm averaging 10-12k miles/month. And months go by before I have to get on the brakes hard. FWIW, the idiots in NJ and the East Coast differ only slightly from those out West. (The logic of the road system is something else back East).

Worth every penny to have the best hitch, brakes and to have painstakingly set it up. Every hour is easier. Every problem is lessened. I'd call that the heart of driving well: Attend to the mechanical.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by slowmover

There's no ROW in the left lane.

The way I learned it, someone who is already in a given lane has the right of way over someone entering or crossing that lane, unless traffic signage says otherwise.

I get a kick out of those who speed up as I signal a lane change, especially as I'm not asking their permission.

If he'll have to slow down to give you room to change lanes, then you signaling your intent IS asking permission. If he won't have to slow down to make room, you're right. But I agree, speeding up solely to make sure you can't change lanes is danged rude on his part.

So, attention to what is coming up behind me and seeing what is ahead is the easiest way to settle problems well in advance.

No argument there.

[mccrosti]

I agree with what Protag said. Always know where your escape route is. Also never underestimate the power of stupidity. I try and stay either in the right or middle lane. Like I did when I was biking, I ride my own ride. Always. I frankly don't care what the other guy is doing while he's trying to kill himself I care that he doesn't take me with him. If I see stupid behavior I either slow down so they go away or move over so they go away. I see a near future where technology will not allow texting in vehicles. It isn't that hard to do, and I predict that sooner rather than later someone will sue the phone companies for negligence because of the technology. Then you'll see phones without the ability to text In moving vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by mccrosti

Then you'll see phones without the ability to text In moving vehicle.

Yes! Built-in motion sensors that would not only prevent texting while driving, but texting while walking, too. Too many pedestrians step off the curb without ever looking up from their phones to see if traffic is about to squash them like a bug.

But getting back to the folks who speed up to cut you off, it's the mindset that "if you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes." Which is absolutely wrong when driving. Being in front is important on a racetrack but on the highway the place to be is in the back of the pack. You can react to what's ahead of you much easier than you can react to what's behind.

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by slowmover

It's no joke, however, that the increasingly large group of below average IQ now present in this country cannot process the information from their mirrors. Too much of an abstraction. Most don't even try. Have to deal with it daily. Blaming phones and other distractions is a cover. It's stupidity.

Could not have said it better myself.

I try to never get in a rush. I try to anticipate and just assume that a lot of drivers these days drive with no regard for anyone besides themselves on the road.

Gone are the days that you could assume that basic physics is being taught in junior high school so that folks in their Prius' will understand that they'll fair very badly if they tangle with a semi (or anything much bigger than them). "Squashed like a bug" comes to mind.

[kscherzi]

I'm in New Orleans now. Been driving around these last few days. For what it's worth I don't think drivers here are materially different from drivers in the SF Bay area or LA. Just urban drivers. Ignorant to momentum and stopping distance.

[cwf]

Rant on.. I refuse to "accept the fact" we must "tolerate" personal choice of distracted/impaired driving... I have performed the funerals of far too many victims..and the perp usually survives...to do it again. Rant off...at least out loud...

Ride for the fall... Keep as safe a distance as possible... Yes, wherever there is a vacuum, nature will fill it.. Usually with the expendable...don't take the bait...

Avoid people.... There is no bounty on the less capable auto steering mechanisms. (Big justification for official "driverless cars"... Which is typical of government, replacing some thing broken with a government edict such as "effective immediately, rain falls up!")

Do not drive near "populated areas"...such as Interstates, areas with "good cell coverage"... Of course "accidents" happened before the horse and buggy days... I have heard...but they usually only involved the whip operator...and a poor beast of burden.... Some things remain the same....

When required to drive in combat areas, recognize the fact... Adapt constantly, expect the unexpected...

When a rider, I would ease up next to a car and give a nodding glance at the operator...then drop in behind them... They would be hyper aware and drive a little more careful... Use them as a potential blocking tool in traffic, positioning myself where I have options by using them as an unfortunate expendable... For self preservation... I find myself doing that today... Even towing... That way I can maneuver to block vision so folks don't pass when they can't see what I can...saves them getting us both in a jam...

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by cwf

There is no bounty on the less capable auto steering mechanisms. (Big justification for official "driverless cars"

Plenty of cars right now are effectively driverless, because the mentality is "cruise control on, brain off."

I for one will not trust the driverless car until Cessna comes out with a pilotless airplane. After all, aircraft automation is a much more mature technology, but they still insist that a real trained human mind be kept in the loop.

Before cars go driverless, they ought to take a lesson from the aircraft industry and go for collision avoidance systems that track the vehicles around you, talk to each other, and tell the driver, "Swerve right. Swerve right NOW," the same way an aircraft system will tell the pilot, "Bank Right," or whatever, at the same time the system in the other plane is telling its pilot to bank in the opposite direction so they both move out of the way of each other.

[J. Morgan]

The thing is,,,, most of the bad drivers on the road really don't care about others that they share the road with.

If they did, the oblivious and indifferent drivers wouldn't be oblivious and indifferent, the reckless and rude wouldn't be reckless and rude, etc, etc...

Since they don't care, they will never make an effort to be better or more courteous.

The way people drive is kind of a reflection of society at large.

This just is.


Superat stultitia.