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Inland RV Center, In · 10-26-2007, 05:56 PM

On October 21 st, 2007, I once again visted the Arizona Memorial.

I was more than shocked, while standing on the Memorial, a place in history that should never be forgotten, a very short space that contains over 1177 veterans who died for our country, to watch all to many Japanese people, many of whom were also wearing caps or hats, stand back and laugh and smile while their pictures were being taken, by their friends.

I for one, took that attitude as saying, "look what we proudly destroyed."

But, if that wasn't enough, many Americans, also demonstrated a "who cares" attitude, by also laughing, carrying on, and wearing hats or caps, while standing on the Memorial.

What has happened to some of us? Do we not care any more? Do some think that scene could not be repeated?

Veterans and those of us that still care, should always be proud to honor those that gave their lives for us to be free.

Americans, please don't let things like the "Arizona Memorial" be forgotten. And please, for those who still care, let others know that American Memorials, of any kind, are deserving of our honor, respect and prayers, especially if that Memorial is for those that gave their lives, for us.

Also, for those that may be interested, the Arizona Memorial park land, has
been slowly sinking. There are plans under way to tear down the park operations this December, and rebuild it to far better standards. So far, the park land has sunk some 3 feet.

The Arizona, is still very active, more so than ever, of releasing fuel oil into Pearl Harbor. Back then a drop or two of oil would appear every few minutes. Now, it's more like a teaspoon or tablespoon of oil that comes up, 2 to 3 times a minute. The small waves from each approaching Navy harbor craft cause even more of that oil to surface, sometimes enough so that you can smell it as well.

But, all is not lost. Many visitors to the Arizona Memorial, are very humble and offer prayers and shed tears, male and female alike. I know, after my many visits to the Arizona, I am one of them, and still leave in more awe, than the time before.

Come on Americans, stand up and unite, while we still can. Our flag, and what it means and stands for, is "everything."

I will try, later, to post some photo's of the oil leakage from the Memorial.

Andy

**azflycaster** · 10-26-2007, 06:04 PM

Andy, I could not agree more with you. I spent 4 years of my life in the service of the USAF. I am proud that I did and I am proud to be an American. I have never been to the islands, but will visit the Arizona when we do.

The song "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood is one of the things that gets me a little misty....

Melody Ranch · 10-26-2007, 06:08 PM

I know how you felt. Thanks for the words.

Alumatube · 10-26-2007, 06:08 PM

VERY nicely put, Andy. However, I think that the inappropriate actions of the tourists visiting the site are probably simply just from the divorce between the action that caused the memorial to be built and today's world, and also, to these folks, it's a piece of Americana they want to be photographed with (similar to Airstream trailers, tepee motels, Mt. Rushmore, etc.). They may have read about it in their history books, but it's just not real to them. I'll bet they are a lot more respectful at the New York 9/11 memorial.

I'll bet most of the American tourists, at least, were of a younger generation. To them dress formality is something of the past, and a cap or hat is just a head accessory. They don't mean to be disrespectful, I am sure.

I am certainly not condoning their behavior, just trying to explain how I think it is we have come to this.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Please DO NOT FORGET the actions that gave us and kept for us this wonderful country.

Susan

**moosetags** · 10-26-2007, 06:45 PM

Thanks for the insight and the update, Andy. I have never been to the USS Arizona Memorial, but I have visited the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetary several times. This evokes similar feelings.

Brian

ROBERT CROSS · 10-26-2007, 07:02 PM

semper-fi

ZoominC6 · 10-26-2007, 07:11 PM

Nicely done Andy.

"No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women." Ronald Wilson Reagan

Excella CM · 10-26-2007, 07:34 PM

We live in an irreverent age.

rmpray · 10-26-2007, 07:44 PM

Andy,

Well put! One note for you though...a visit to a basic graduating class of the Marines will quickly restore your faith in the future. Don't get me wrong, I do worry and see red sometimes when I see those who just don't seem to understand what the heart of America is, but having frequantly found myself in the company of those much braver and stronger than I, who would put their lives in harms way for the ideas we hold dear. I don't know where these young men and women come from, but the worst days are quickly forgotten just by being in their presence. No intent on leaving out the other branches either, but Marines do have a flair. I must admit, it is hard to visit the wall, the tombs of the unknowns, even the small community memorials...the cost has been...will allways be high...but you see these young folks keep stepping up...well you can not help but be confident. Yes there are those who are unaware, but they are small by comparison.

Keep the faith...they've piked up the staff...

Rob n Terry

Boondocker · 10-26-2007, 08:25 PM

It is a fine thing that we visit these places of struggle so that the brave are not forgotten. It is the duty of those who understand not to let the history become simple tourist attractions. I myself, can not claim the honor of serving the US as member of the military as can many of you; however, never doubt my appreciation for those who have, and for those who serve in their own fashion.

LJH · 10-26-2007, 08:42 PM

Well said, Andy. LJH USAF

razorback · 10-26-2007, 08:54 PM

Andy -
Great post! There are others of us that make up the "older generation" that also find the irreverence of the younger generation rather unsettling. Our own kids were taught what a shrine is and the proper respect to be shown. It makes one wonder what it will be like two or three generations removed?

Two of the most heart touching places we have visited that we have had to fight back tears of our emotions were the Alamo in San Antonio and the Iwo Jima Memorial in Harlingen. We were glad to see a person posted at the Alamo to remind people it was a shrine and caps must be removed. At the Iwo Jima Memorial there were Iwo Jima battle survivors that we were humbled to meet and express our appreciation in person for their sacrifices.

What is most disturbing about the current climate of the lack of historical knowledge (thanks to our progressive public school agenda) and respect (thanks to liberal parenting) is the old saying: "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"

Andy, I agree with you 100%!

CaddyGrn · 10-26-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razorback

Andy -
Great post! There are others of us that make up the "older generation" that also find the irreverence of the younger generation rather unsettling.

As a retired high school teacher, I can tell you that many of today's young folks are very respectful. With that said, there are also a vast number that are not. Everyone needs to model respectful behavior in front of the younger people, and remind them to take off their hats, etc. I have no trouble telling someone it is appropriate to remove their hat~it can be done nicely. In California, at my high school, we said the pledge of allegiance in the first period class. In California, we cannot make students repeat the pledge, but they must (by law) stand and be respectful. My students stood, and no hats, no gum, no talking! They were good about it. I tried to take the time to explain to them why this was important and not just yell at them and tell them "to do it!" Just about all of them respected my efforts.

Too many times parents are working 2 jobs to make ends meet and the younger folks just don't get the guidance we had. At our school we had about 90% Hispanic and about 50% of those were new to our country. They were clueless...as were their parents. I think it is important for them to know, as many of them are "guests" in our country. Some invited, some not.

Anyway, enough of my harangue, Andy a good post and thoughtful stuff! Next time you are with your kids or grandkids be sure they practice good behavior and reverance for those that gave their lives and years to our country. We will all benefit.

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis ~ from the Great State of Jefferson)

FlaAirstream · 10-27-2007, 04:21 AM

Very well done Andy.

Must be an old guy myself. Makes me wonder where we're going and where this country will be 50 years from now. With roll models like Britney and Paris I would guess we'd be in trouble. Sure some of our youth are great kids but it seems like more are not. Can you picture some nursing homes 50 years from now? The women will have tatooes all over and the golden oldies will be rap music. I don't mean to soap box it but I for one am very worried about the future. Today's youth are simply NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. Rather than have a strict households, todays youth receive birth control pills from school. What ever happened to jumping in a tub of hot water with our new jeans on so they'd shrink up to fit? The style today is get 'em as big and sloppy as you can. The seats hang down with no crotch. Ok, that's enough but that's my story and I'm stickin to it. Got to get this rig ready to roll down the mountain tomorrow. Closing the campground and heading to our place in Florida.

It was way to early to get all stirred up this morning. Hon, could I have another cup?

Gary

Happycampers · 10-27-2007, 05:25 AM

Thanks Andy, I think it is good to remind everyone of what was given so that we can be free. I go to war memorials every time I am near one.

byamcaravanner · 10-27-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland Andy

What has happened to some of us? Do we not care any more? Do some think that scene could not be repeated?

The problem is we have the people who don't care teaching the people who don't know... even though "that scene" has been repeated just 6 years ago on Sept 11, 2001... and it will be repeated again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland Andy

Veterans and those of us that still care, should always be proud to honor those that gave their lives for us to be free.

All Americans should be proud... it's our duty! ...and it's the very least we can do.

pienjim · 10-27-2007, 06:38 AM

This past summer we took our young grandsons to the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial at Angel Fire, NM. They were excited about the helicopter outside which I knew they would be as they love all things big and mechanical. However, once inside I observed a change in their demeanor to one of quiet interest. At one point I noticed they had removed their caps and was pretty sure no one had told them to do so. I asked the younger one why he had taken his off. His answer: "Kyle took his off." So I asked Kyle (who always has a hat on) why he took his hat off. He said, "I saw Papa had his hat off."

At that point I realized they are ALWAYS watching and learning, even when we are not aware of it, and it is up to us to set the example of respect and reverence, and, yes, patriotism.

Pie

JimGolden · 10-27-2007, 08:40 AM

Shrines affect different people in different ways. I rode my motorcycle up to Somerset PA with a bunch of guys last year. We rode out into the field where the terrorists hijacked the airliner and the passengers fought back. I saw the hole in the field where the airliner went down going 500mph.

There they've got a small shrine. It's not much, but it's something to demark the spot. There's a giant sign board up and people have come from all over to put flowers and jackets and stuff on it.

There were lots of people there. Most were crying. This one guy with me, Donald, is a big guy. Probably 6'6" and 400lbs. He made his big twin look like a mini bike. Donald had tears in his eyes. All the Harley guys removed their skull caps. Even the hard core "real" biker types I saw there, the kinds of guys I wouldn't care to hang out with, were reverent.

Me, I got mad. Pearl Harbor was bad enough (my old Sunday School teacher was there when it happened, he showed me pictures that he took on that fateful day....), but at least it was a military target. To think that a bunch of animals murdered a bunch of innocent civilians made my blood boil. I'm straying off topic a bit..... but anyway, the shrine up there to me meant a lot.

Were I in your position out there, Andy, I'd have been inclined to give some of those guys a knuckle sandwich. I know, I know, that's irrational. And I probably wouldn't really do it. But I'd sure be mad.

I don't wear a hat, but I do try to show the proper reverence. I bet most of them just didn't now any better though. Sad but true...

cooperhawk · 10-27-2007, 10:11 AM

Veterans, the Inhofe Legislation now allows any veteran to "Salute" the flag and not just hold your hand over your heart. You may salute in civilian clothing. I think that this is a splendid method of showing our patriotism and allowing the public to see how many of us are veterans!

.: United States Senator James Inhofe :: Press Room :.

wheel interested · 10-27-2007, 11:08 AM

This thread's title brought to mind the Burning Man's 2008 theme, "The American Dream." I see this as very positive and forward thinking. I hope you do too. The theme will be about patriotism -- not that kind which freights the nation state with the collective weight of ego, but a patriotism based upon a love of country and culture. Leave ideology at home; forget the blue states and the red; let parties, factions and the issues that divide us fall away. Flag burning or flag worship play no part in this year's theme. Ask yourself, instead, a more immediate question. What has America achieved that you admire or feel proud of? What has it done or failed to do that makes you feel dismayed? Put blame aside, ... and dare to ask an even greater question: What can postmodern America yet give to the world?

In 2008, the Burning Man will stand atop a high-rise tower. Instead of windows, this edifice will feature images of flags that represent the countries of the world. Ranging from Canada to Chad, from Brazil to Burundi, from Vatican City to the Republic of China, these 244 symbols will shine in the night, gleaming like cut gems upon the surface of a jewel box. The United States of America will be among them. Each country can be said to represent a dream no less radiant or precious than the rest. Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map. All of us are immigrants to Black Rock City. What can we dream America to be?

The best lessons from history are tutors to our future. I hope it teaches us to move ahead and wisely.