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Robfike · 02-09-2006, 07:15 AM

I am getting ready to replace the water heater in the 345 due to a tank leak. The water lines are all the grey plastic with crimp type fittings and metal bands. Are the crimpers available? The bands? Is this something I can get at Lowes? Or does everyone just replace them with hose clamps?
Thanks, Rob

Pick · 02-09-2006, 08:05 AM

Lowes and HD should have everything you need. It is called PEX tubing. Crimpers are around $100, but you may be able to rent the tool. They have compression fittings that fit the tubing also. I used the compression fittings on my replacement project. Also ran the PEX to the toilet. Most of the plumbing in my coach is still copper.

Robfike · 02-09-2006, 09:48 AM

Thanks, I will check them out.

ALANSD · 02-09-2006, 09:59 AM

I used some compression fittings and changed to copper and brass as I had a leak in my shower. Sealed it very tight, and has never been a problem. I guess the pex holds up, but its an option anyway.

j54mark · 02-09-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick

Lowes and HD should have everything you need. It is called PEX tubing.

Sadly, no it isn't. PEX is either white, red, or blue. The grey tubing is polybutylene. The crimps and connectors are no longer available as no code allows them anymore. The tubing itself works fairly well, and is still available. Do a search on "polybutylene" on this site for more than you want to know.

The easiest fix is to use Flair-it brand fittings. They will work on both PEX and polybutylene. Many RV stores and some hardware centers carry it.

Mark

lewster · 02-09-2006, 05:02 PM

Rob,

Flair-it is a good choice. No tools needed. Be careful to hand tighten only or you'll distort the gasket inserts. Also, if you do have polybutylene, be sure to use the tubing inserts in the ends of the tubes before putting on the fittings.

ALANSD · 02-10-2006, 05:25 AM

The grey is the poly stuff that has been didintegrating in peoples homes? I did not know that...glad I went to a metal fitting and pipe in the shower!

Chaplain Kent · 02-15-2006, 12:23 PM

I would switch over to copper. It is easier to obtain and easier to work with. Plus I feel that a good soldered joint will not rattle loose. One more benefit is that in the chance happening you get some freezing copper will survive a little better than most of the plastics out there.

Zeppelinium · 02-15-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaplain Kent

...One more benefit is that in the chance happening you get some freezing copper will survive a little better than most of the plastics out there.

Ouch! I have had many people say just the opposite--platic will survive a freeze and copper splits. I can verify that copper does split, but don't know if it's sooner or later than plastic would do in the same circumstance. On the other hand, I have taken apart a couple of copper plumbing systems the froze and at first I thought I could replace a few split pipes, only to discover that the fittings (those that had frozen) had expanded permanently.

Roger

j54mark · 02-15-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3isnotenough

Ouch! I have had many people say just the opposite--platic will survive a freeze and copper splits.
Roger

It depends upon the plastic. PCV or CPVC is prone to breaking if frozen. PEX has a some ridiculously large expansion quotient before breaking. What is seldom mentioned is that the regular PEX connectors are all brass, which could split. Even so, if freeze protection is you main concern, PEX is the material of choice.

Mark

Robfike · 03-01-2006, 06:50 PM

I just finished installing the new water heater. The biggest problem was getting the new unit through the hole in the side of the coach.
THE PLUMBING: As I was able to get a lot of great help from everyone on the forum, I was able to at least ask the right questions to find parts. I elected to go with the PEX white tubing and only crimp type fittings with one exception. The fittings are copper as well as the crimp rings. I was able to find the crimp fittings that are for Poly on one end and PEX on the other. These I used to go from the old stuff to the new. I used the new by-pass kit from Camping world. The only fittings that are not 100% crimped are the ones that connect the PEX to the by-pass fittings. These are a swivel type screw-on fitting.
You should be able to see in the photos how it all is put together.
This really is not a big deal. I did pop for the crimping tool at $97.00. I think it will be handy when I need to replace something else.
I had to go to Lowes, and Menard's to get all the tubing and fittings that I needed.
In the last photo, you can see the "go..no-go" guage that comes with the crimper. You should check each crimp. The other item in the photo is a tubing cutter. I got this at Lowes and it works great.
I can't wait until Spring!

lewster · 03-01-2006, 08:31 PM

The reason that the RV industry went away from copper was a simple one: It tended to work-harden and break from the constant motion going down the road. I see this from time-to-time in older motor homes that were wired with solid copper electrical wire also. Makes you nuts when you have no power where it should be and you finally trace an open wire in a perfectly good looking piece of Romex.

I'll stick to plastic water tubing and marine grade stranded wire, thanks!

Besides, the plastic like Qest annd Flair-It are way easier to work with than copper and a torch

.

swebster · 03-02-2006, 09:00 PM

Nice job!

wingfoot321 · 03-02-2006, 10:10 PM

RobFike,

Excellent post on the water heater replacement.

One question ---- What type of fitting did you use to screw into the water heater? Brass, Poly, Qwest pex, etc. ?

I need to stop and get a bypass kit on the way home from Sarasota. It is nice to see they use a backflow valve. My old one did not.

Robfike · 03-03-2006, 05:47 AM

The bypass kit comes with the brass fittings that screw into the water heater. One is actually the valve, the other is the backflow preventer. They also supply a plastic screw fitting that goes to the backflow preventer. The PEX swivel fitting screws onto that.
Rob

noiva · 03-07-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robfike

I just finished installing the new water heater. The biggest problem was getting the new unit through the hole in the side of the coach.
THE PLUMBING: As I was able to get a lot of great help from everyone on the forum, I was able to at least ask the right questions to find parts. I elected to go with the PEX white tubing and only crimp type fittings with one exception. The fittings are copper as well as the crimp rings. I was able to find the crimp fittings that are for Poly on one end and PEX on the other. These I used to go from the old stuff to the new. I used the new by-pass kit from Camping world. The only fittings that are not 100% crimped are the ones that connect the PEX to the by-pass fittings. These are a swivel type screw-on fitting.
You should be able to see in the photos how it all is put together.
This really is not a big deal. I did pop for the crimping tool at $97.00. I think it will be handy when I need to replace something else.
I had to go to Lowes, and Menard's to get all the tubing and fittings that I needed.
In the last photo, you can see the "go..no-go" guage that comes with the crimper. You should check each crimp. The other item in the photo is a tubing cutter. I got this at Lowes and it works great.
I can't wait until Spring!

Am I looking at a heat exchanger system with those black rubber hoses? If so, where did you find a new water heater with that? I was under the impression they weren't made anymore. I sure haven't seen any at places like Camping World.

Great pictures.

lewster · 03-07-2006, 07:48 PM

Tim,

I just replaced the tank on a heat exchanger/120VAC water heater on an older Safari MoHo last month. They are still made by a company in CA....mostly for the marine industry. I'll check my notes to get the name of the company.

The unit had an aluminum tube running thru the bottom of the tank so that the engine coolant would heat your water for free while the engine was running. It also works in reverse to pre-heat your engine while the 120VAC is heating your water.

noiva · 03-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewster

Tim,

I just replaced the tank on a heat exchanger/120VAC water heater on an older Safari MoHo last month. They are still made by a company in CA....mostly for the marine industry. I'll check my notes to get the name of the company.

The unit had an aluminum tube running thru the bottom of the tank so that the engine coolant would heat your water for free while the engine was running. It also works in reverse to pre-heat your engine while the 120VAC is heating your water.

Lew,

My MoHo came originally with the heat exchanger type water heater, but by the time I got it the heater had been replaced with a gas-only unit. I just recently replaced all the hot water lines on the coach, and eliminated the tees for the original lines going to the factory water heater. They had been plugged when the heater was replaced, and I didn't want an unnecessary source for a potential leak. It appears that Robfike has located a new heater with that original setup. I'd appreciate your posting or sending the name of the company that still makes the tanks if you come across it. I wouldn't replace the gas heater just to get the exchange type back, but I would consider going back to that when the time comes to replace the gas unit. I've also had good success with the "Hot Rod" add-on electric elements that screw into the drain in the tanks. Saves lots of propane, and does very well providing hot water. Of course they make gas/electric heaters, but I already have a good propane-only one, so that's what I've got to deal with at the present.

Thanks,

lewster · 03-07-2006, 09:01 PM

Tim,

If I remember correctly, I have a mildly used tank from this type of water heater. The owner wanted it replaced with a conventional unit. I will check at my shop and let you know. If you want it, I will pressure test it first, then let you know the final condition. IIRC, it was oK when I removed it; just the components were N/G.

Robfike · 03-08-2006, 06:40 AM

Guys,
I purchased my new water heater from PPLMotorhomes.com They are in Houston, TX but my water heater came drop-shipped from Elkhart, IN.
They sell used motorhomes and parts. Their price was the best I could find. My original heater was a gas unit with the heat exchanger. The one I got from them is a gas/electric with heat exchanger. Since they buy so many of them, it was cheaper than the one with just gas/exchanger. I just did not use the electric element. They seem to be good guys to deal with.
Rob