Tire blowout!!

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by 92landyacht

The tire completely failed at 6 years old. I understand that it may be near end of life, but this was not a gross misjudgment issue IMHO. I'm not entirely sure if the failure was due to age or a result of a puncture resulting in loss of air over time while driving. I felt a slight increase in steering vibration just before the tire blowout but no other signs of problems. Tires were visually inspected before leaving the race track.

If all the tires need to be replaced, and you can't afford to replace them all at once, start with the tires at the front end. A blowout on any tire is bad, but a blowout on the tires you steer with is more dangerous than a blowout on the drive wheels.

If it were up to me, EVERY time I replaced one pair of tires, I'd put the new ones on the front, and rotate the front tires back to the rear. But when they're not all on identical rims (like my Interstate where fronts don't match outer rears which don't match inner rears), that makes for a lot of extra work, so not everyone would necessarily make that same choice.

[92landyacht]

In my case I plan to replace every tire over a 6 month period since all 8 axle mounted tires are the same age. The spare was actually a bit older then the rest and a different brand. Since all tires will be within 6 months of each other and the MH will not be driven 1 mile until all 8 are replaced I think rotation is not required in my case. With that said, I think your concept of keeping the fronts as new as possible makes great sense. The front tires are the most loaded and the most critical.

As I go about replacing all my tires I'm coming up with a little quandary. I clearly intend to replace the front tires first and, in my case all before the unit moves so the order of replacement is not relevant. For those considering replacing tires on a spread out schedule while still mobile, which tires should be replaced as next on the priority? Dually tires or TAG axle tires next? On the duallies, should all 4 tires be replace at one time or can they be replaced as pairs? Case in point both insides or outsides replaced first or left v/s right replaced as a pair. This assumes that the replacement tires will be the same size as the existing tires.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by 92landyacht

As I go about replacing all my tires I'm coming up with a little quandary. I clearly intend to replace the front tires first and, in my case all before the unit moves so the order of replacement is not relevant. For those considering replacing tires on a spread out schedule while still mobile, which tires should be replaced as next on the priority? Dually tires or TAG axle tires next? On the duallies, should all 4 tires be replace at one time or can they be replaced as pairs? Case in point both insides or outsides replaced first or left v/s right replaced as a pair. This assumes that the replacement tires will be the same size as the existing tires.

Tag axle is unpowered, right? In that case, leave them for last. Steering tires first, powered tires second (inner, then outer because outer is easier to replace and does less damage to wheelwells in a blowout), and "idling" tires last.

[dannydimitt]

Ok , I,ll jump in with my 2 cents worth of opinion . Having spent a few decades in the trucking and BIG hydraulic truck mounted crane industry , and being the guy that did the buying and servicing of the tires they ran on , and gleaning much information from various tire manufactures and keeping track of what tire gave the best service over the long haul .

For heavy vehicles that were used enough to actually wear the tread out or were likely to be damaged , "cut or punctured" the most cost effective way to go was with which tire would haul the weight required at the lowest cost per unit.

For heavy vehicles that spent most of their time parked " kind of like a motor home does" , the tires that would give the best service over the long run were the Michelins.They will simply last years longer than any other brand that we used on the trucks and equipment without coming apart and tearing the hell out of things. The other type of tire that lasts many years is the old reliable bias ply nylon . But they are getting hard to find and most folks don't like the way they flat spot while parked and thump thump thump the first few miles on their motor homes . And the fact that most all of them now days come from China and India and are simply out of round from the get go.
It's my humble opinion you'll be money ahead in the long run to spend the extra bucks on the Michelins .

[92landyacht]

Originally Posted by dannydimitt

For heavy vehicles that were used enough to actually wear the tread out or were likely to be damaged , "cut or punctured" the most cost effective way to go was with which tire would haul the weight required at the lowest cost per unit.

Agreed.

For heavy vehicles that spent most of their time parked " kind of like a motor home does" , the tires that would give the best service over the long run were the Michelins. They will simply last years longer than any other brand that we used on the trucks and equipment without coming apart and tearing the hell out of things.

But tires don't last for many more years.

It's my humble opinion you'll be money ahead in the long run to spend the extra bucks on the Michelins .

Not when I can buy two or more tires for the price of one Michelin.

Here's were the debate begins... Even if the Michelins lasted twice as long as any other tire (debatable), they're still not a good return on investment. If tires don't last more then 6 years, whether they sit or not, then why spend the money on "high end" tires when you still have to replace them so soon. Mine were 6 years old and went kaboom. I'm now in the opinion that tires should be replaced at a sooner interval then 6 years.

With that said; even if the Michelins did last 10 years you would still have to spend more then twice the amount for them. I would rather replace with NEW fresh rubber every 5 years and never have a possibly dry rotted tire on any axle then spend more then twice the amount and worry about my tires for the last few years.

Keep in mind that cost is a driving factor for me and many others. If money was not a concern, then I'd buying new Michelins every year.

[dannydimitt]

Originally Posted by 92landyacht

Agreed.



But tires don't last for many more years.



Not when I can buy two or more tires for the price of one Michelin.

Here's were the debate begins... Even if the Michelins lasted twice as long as any other tire (debatable), they're still not a good return on investment. If tires don't last more then 6 years, whether they sit or not, then why spend the money on "high end" tires when you still have to replace them so soon. Mine were 6 years old and went kaboom. I'm now in the opinion that tires should be replaced at a sooner interval then 6 years.

With that said; even if the Michelins did last 10 years you would still have to spend more then twice the amount for them. I would rather replace with NEW fresh rubber every 5 years and never have a possibly dry rotted tire on any axle then spend more then twice the amount and worry about my tires for the last few years.

Keep in mind that cost is a driving factor for me and many others. If money was not a concern, then I'd buying new Michelins every year.

This is why I put the Cooper 235/75R15 on our AS instead of Michelins, and that the light weight of the trailer allows the use of lightweight P metric tires.
But going with tires from China, I fear will be a mistake . Is there not a Kelly or a Dunlop in that size that would be near in cost to the Chinese tires? We had great results with both these manufacturers of truck tires
when going for good value .

[dannydimitt]

Originally Posted by 92landyacht

Here's a view of the carnage:


Here's the only visible sign of damage on the rim. I just hope it's repairable:


There was some minor damage to the fender well but I still think I got off lucky:

I see you have a michilin on your spare wheel , what is the date of manufacture on it ? if you don't mind looking

[Smartstream]

Just out of curiosity has it been determined for sure that the failure was from age and not another defect or combination of problems?

[92landyacht]

The Michelin spare is just over 10 years old (2002) and badly dry rotted. It was never used as far as I know and was always located behind the rear bumper. It got me home another 20 miles doing no more then 35 mph and will be replaced along with the others. The irony is that I was just 1 mile short of getting off the expressway when the tire blew. I could see the exit ramp by the time I pulled over.

As for what the final cause of the failure was, I have no way of knowing now. The tire was simply too damaged to identify if it was failure due to age or some other previous damage.

[dannydimitt]

Tire manufacturers are constantly changing the composition and design of their tires , and there really is no way to judge how a tire will last on the results of the same tires built 10 or more years ago. But what has been the norm for the past thirty years or so is that the Michelins have been holding up for 10 or more years of use. Far better than the rest. And the fact that the michelins seem to develop little crackles on the sidewall near the wheel in not only truck tires , but on car tires as well , sooner than a lot of other tires is a mind boggling thing ! Then continue to run and outlast all the others !

When I bought our 03 Dodge 2500 in Jun of last year, it still had the Michelin E rated tires that came on the truck from the factory. All 4 of them on the ground had the little crackles in the sidewalls and were not to far from being wore out . Within a week I replaced them with new michelins exactly like the ones that came on the truck. The spare michelin was mounted on the same steel wheel that all the others were on and had never been out from under the truck. When we got back from our trip in July to Yellowstone , pulling our then travel trailer , I Decided to live dangerously and put the old , never used spare on the ground just for grins . Put it on the left rear so I could take a look at it every time I got in the truck. We wound up driving on it all the way to northern Illinois and back to pick up the Airstream we had found on this site. " In our haste to get our new to us trailer I sort of forgot that 10 year old tire was there till we got home . It did just fine .

Forward to July of this year, and we are in Alaska, we have two spare michelins mounted as spares for the truck, and on a whim , I put the 03 Michelin back on the left rear of the dodge one evening where we were boondocking to get some use out of it up in the cold country where our speed was a lot less than down here in the lower 48. Long story short , it stayed on the left rear the rest of the trip and is still running in that position. Had this been any other brand of tire beside michelin, I would have never done this. But like I have eluded to in the past , after many years of using and seeing how tires hold up to all sorts of situations , a sort of personal test of past observations that put Michelins at the top of this old mans list is being conducted.-----"Don't try this at home" LOL
"my extreme tightwad nature " is at work here, and tiss a hard and sad thing not to use up some of the tread of this fine old Michelin :-)

[rw1895]

For what it is worth, I put on six new Goodyear G 647 , G rated Highway tires 225/70R195 at the end of Sept. the tire shop in Ct. Had a list price of $480.00 each and a sales price of $385.73 each. This is for my 95 Classic diesel pusher. Valve stems , balancing etc ran a total of $ 2,629.70 inc tax out the door. I put about 700 mi on them so far down 84 to 81 to Pa Tpk back home. Running them at 100 psi but may move up to 110 once I get a weight with a full load 20k?. 81 and 84 are like the Ho Chi Mhin trail so I don't have any good data on soft and comfortable ride to report. I kept one six yr old Michlein as an emergency spare but will replace that soon with a GDY . The AS handled well as far as steering with the exception that it did want to track a bit on asphalt surfaces that were heavily grooved from truck traffic. No surprise. The tires I took off appeared to be "new" but We're six years old. I change tires at 5-6 years on all my cars , truck and trailer no matter what they look like. Long ago I learned a lesson with my class C changing an inner rear wheel in a ditch on a 1/12 lane back road in the middle of nowhere just because I was too shortsighted to pay attention to my feeling that this was one trip too many for those 6 yr old tires. Spent the next day at a shop in Port Jervis having six new ones put on. Certainly a manufacturing fault can be hiding there in these new tires but I can't control that at this point , only take care of them and monitor correct load pressure. I have found that on my diesel truck 10k weight I run the tires at 80 psi and get excellent wear 50-55,000 mi before changing at 5 yrs. I will probably run the AS @ 110 psi on the next trip and see if tire temps are lower

[92landyacht]

The bottom line is you never know when a tire will blow, but the longer you live with it the better the chance it will. Whether it's a Michelin or any other brand, you are just taking chances as time goes on. 6 years and more and you're taking a chance. Just because you beat the odds doesn't mean that the tire wins. It just means that you got off lucky.

[carl2591]

my cousin used to be a QC engineer at the Michelin plant near Columbia SC and told me stories about the tires they make there.. He was saying the raw rubber blanks came down a line to the molding machines. Some were the Michelin brand tires and some were the BF Goodrich brand tires.

One blank would do into a michelin mold and the other may go into a BF mold. so i would gleen from this info a BF tire is the same as a michelin tire at lower price point.

I might give him a call and get more info on that as well but I do remember him saying that several years ago when we talked about tire for a car i own..

He was in the Large industrial equipment side where the tire were some 9 to 12 ft tall.. and cost some 50K each..

Originally Posted by dannydimitt

Ok , I,ll jump in with my 2 cents worth of opinion . Having spent a few decades in the trucking and BIG hydraulic truck mounted crane industry , and being the guy that did the buying and servicing of the tires they ran on , and gleaning much information from various tire manufactures and keeping track of what tire gave the best service over the long haul .

For heavy vehicles that were used enough to actually wear the tread out or were likely to be damaged , "cut or punctured" the most cost effective way to go was with which tire would haul the weight required at the lowest cost per unit.

For heavy vehicles that spent most of their time parked " kind of like a motor home does" , the tires that would give the best service over the long run were the Michelins.They will simply last years longer than any other brand that we used on the trucks and equipment without coming apart and tearing the hell out of things. The other type of tire that lasts many years is the old reliable bias ply nylon . But they are getting hard to find and most folks don't like the way they flat spot while parked and thump thump thump the first few miles on their motor homes . And the fact that most all of them now days come from China and India and are simply out of round from the get go.
It's my humble opinion you'll be money ahead in the long run to spend the extra bucks on the Michelins .

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by carl2591

One blank would do into a michelin mold and the other may go into a BF mold. so i would gleen from this info a BF tire is the same as a michelin tire at lower price point.

That is not necessarily a foregone conclusion. It just means they used the same rubber compound. Not that they used the same mold profile, the same number, type, or orientation of belts, or that they were molded at the same temperature for the same length of time.

[73shark]

As one data point, my wife's Tahoe only got about 30K miles out of a set of BFGs. Definitely not in Michelin's class.

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

That is not necessarily a foregone conclusion. It just means they used the same rubber compound. Not that they used the same mold profile, the same number, type, or orientation of belts, or that they were molded at the same temperature for the same length of time.

good question.. i will get with him and see for sure.

[92landyacht]

Here's what I got straight off of Michelins web site:

May 15, 2006

Service Life for RV/Motorhome Tires
The following recommendation applies to RV/Motorhome tires. Tires are composed of
various types of material and rubber compounds, having performance properties essential
to the proper functioning of the tire itself. These component properties evolve over time.
For each tire, this evolution depends upon many factors such as weather, storage conditions,
and conditions of use (load, speed, inflation pressure, maintenance, etc.) to which the tire is
subjected throughout its life. This service-related evolution varies widely so that accurately
predicting the serviceable life of any specific tire in advance is not possible.
That is why, in addition to regular inspections and inflation pressure maintenance by
consumers, it is recommended to have RV/Motorhome tires, including spare tires, inspected
regularly by a qualified tire specialist, such as a tire dealer, who will assess the tire’s
suitability for continued service. Tires that have been in use for 5 years or more should
continue to be inspected by a specialist at least annually.
Consumers are strongly encouraged to be aware not only of their tires’ visual condition and
inflation pressure, but also of any change in dynamic performance such as increased air
loss, noise or vibration, which could be an indication that the tires need to be removed from
service to prevent tire failure.
It is impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone.
However, the older a tire the greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to the
service-related evolution or other conditions found upon inspection or detected during use.
While most tires will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that
any tires in service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture, including spare tires, be
replaced with new tires as a simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable and even
if they have not reached the legal wear limit.
For tires that were on an original equipment vehicle (i.e., acquired by the consumer on a
new vehicle), follow the vehicle manufacturer’s tire replacement recommendations, when
specified (but not to exceed 10 years).
The date when a tire was manufactured is located on the sidewall of each tire. Consumers
should locate the Department of Transportation or DOT code on the tire that begins with
DOT and ends with the week and year of manufacture. For example, a DOT code ending

with “0304” indicates a tire made in the 3rd week (Jan) of 2004.




Clearly even the great Michelin says that 10 years is the max.

[92landyacht]

First pair of tires arrived today. Date code 2213. That makes them less then 6 months old from date of manufacture. Nice feeling to have fresh rubber going back on. Now I need to pick up some Dynabeads and get ready to have the tires mounted. Local shop said they could mount them but could not spin balance them, thus the need to buy the beads.

Anyone know of the least expensive place to buy the Dynabeads or any coupon codes for them?

[92landyacht]

Just an update for anyone currently in the market for tires. Simpletire.com is having a Black Friday through Cyber Monday 5% off sale on all tires. 2 of the Samson: Radial Truck GL283A 8R19.5 tires delivered to my door was only $299. I ended up buying 4 more to complete the steering and drive axle tires. Now I only have to pick up two more for the tag axles and a spare and I'm set with new tires all around. They sell all brands and sizes so if the Samson's are not your cup of tea, then there may still be one of your liking.

PS: I have no affiliation with Simpletire.com. I just haven't seen anyone close on their prices.

[wvabeer]

Did you ever find a wheel?