How long with no fresh air?

[Silvr_Lining]

Hello fellow airstreamers,
I worry about fresh air in our 16' Bambi. With everything closed up and an external electric heater going (shore power) should I have worries? And what about when we use the propane heater?

[Goal15]

We always crack a window when sleeping with the furnace on, and quite often do so the rest of the year just for fresh air's sake.

I'm kind of picky about fresh air. I even do it at home if we are using the fireplace.

Dana


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[stsammy]

Same. We always crack a window. We have two adults & a five year old in our 22, so I find we need the fresh air, or we wake up with condensation on the windows

[SteveSueMac]

I don't know if you're asking about storage or in use but opening the bathroom vent (without the fan) will help and if you have cover over your fantastic fan, crack that an inch or so. Should be all you need!

[nrgtrakr]

I found this interesting ...
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/how_m...r_a_person.htm

[masseyfarm]

If you are lucky enough to have an air-tight Airstream, you should open a window!

Otherwise, just plug the holes with a screen to keep the rodents out?

Dave

Originally Posted by Silvr_Lining

Hello fellow airstreamers,
I worry about fresh air in our 16' Bambi. With everything closed up and an external electric heater going (shore power) should I have worries? And what about when we use the propane heater?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Lining

Hello fellow airstreamers,
I worry about fresh air in our 16' Bambi. With everything closed up and an external electric heater going (shore power) should I have worries? And what about when we use the propane heater?

HVAC designers use 1 or 2 air changes per hour for residential spaces in general, but 15 air changes per hour for kitchens and bathrooms to deal with odors and water vapor in the air, and 12 air changes for dining areas to deal with odors. This mostly has to do with the size of ducts and AC registers in different rooms, but the same principle can be applied to a trailer as well.

Rather than calculate different rates of air changes for different parts of your trailer, an average of 4 air changes per hour should be considered the minimum for air quality purposes.

One air change is letting in a quantity of fresh air equal to the total volume of the trailer in cubic feet, and exhausting stale air in the same amount. Given the approximate width and height of an Airstream's body, that's approximately a number of cubic feet per minute (not per hour) equal to the length of your trailer. So if you have a 25-foot trailer, to get 4 air changes per hour you want 100 cubic feet per minute of air flow. For a 30-foot trailer, you'd need 120 cfm.

For proper air changes you've got to have both an inlet and an outlet. A 4-inch bathroom vent fan will extract about 100 cfm, as long as you've got a window open to let in the same amount of air. A Fantastic Fan or MaxxFan 14-inch roof vent will move about 180 cfm on its lowest speed setting.

So for Silvr_Lining in a 16' Bambi, cracking open one window and running your bathroom vent should be enough to ensure that the air doesn't get stale. For someone in a 34' Sovereign, leaving a Fantastic Fan running on low and one or two windows cracked open should do the trick.

[cameront120]

These trailers are far from air tight, so a lack of oxygen shouldn't be a concern (barring any faulty propane fired appliances). You will want to crack windows or a roof vent to reduce interior condensation.

[mandolindave]

It's about not getting dead.

The safest heater as far as asphyxiation is electric, obviously.

I don't know how safe it is to sleep in a closed up camper with no heater.

I don't know how safe the propane furnaces are but they at least have a fresh air supply. Are CO2 warning systems just in case there is a malfunction??

The stand alone catalytic propane heaters are dangerous if used in a confined area. you NEED to crack a window. I read that 8 people a year die due to these heaters

[xrvr]

I use a co detector, not co2, ans still crack a window for condensation relief and peace of mind. If you are worried about your furnace please have it checked by a professional. Others are correct, an electric heater is great if you have hookups or a generator, we use one of the oil filled ones with a small fan behind it on low to circulate the heat. Good luck, have fun.

[nrgtrakr]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Lining

Hello fellow airstreamers,

I worry about fresh air in our 16' Bambi. With everything closed up and an external electric heater going (shore power) should I have worries? And what about when we use the propane heater?

The propane heat brings in outside air to burn, then exhausts that outside. A CO monitor will do just that, detect carbon monoxide (a product of burning propane gas) which could come from the range/oven, a catalytic heater, or (if damaged) the furnace.

[Silvr_Lining]

Thanks all,
It just can get darn cold but I do like to keep a window open a little.
I didn't think about condensation... A VERY good reason to keep air flow going!
-Marc

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

Are CO2 warning systems just in case there is a malfunction??

Perhaps you are forgetting that the stove burns propane inside where it can make carbon monoxide in the trailer. And it's why one shouldn't use the stove for a heat source.

[Jim_Mullen]

I agree with everyone the best thing to do just crack a window. First off, you are getting fresh air and come on what gets better than that. Second I know your asking about it being a safety issue. I would still have window crack. Not 100% sure having all that is to safe.

[mandolindave]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Perhaps you are forgetting that the stove burns propane inside where it can make carbon monoxide in the trailer. And it's why one shouldn't use the stove for a heat source.

I didn't word that right. at all. Is what comes out of the ducts, oxygen depleted?

[kdickinson]

On my, admittedly older model AS, there is a wire mesh covered opening that is about 1' square under the refrigerator. That alone provides plenty of air flow but just cracking the roof vents open a bit ensures a continuous air flow in the mid-section of the trailer where we sleep. The first thing I did when I brought the trailer up to Colorado to begin using it again was install a CO2 detector in addition to a smoke detector. Neither of these items were included on trailers built in the 60's.

After being frozen nearly to death one night last January due to our inverter dying in Las Vegas, NM and the furnace only running as long as there was battery power I have now installed a quick-connect for a catalytic heater back up. Catalytic heaters of course require a free flow of air for oxygen but do not require electricity to run. Figuring out how to ensure oxygen flow for the catalytic heater led me to figure out that there is plenty of air flow. And to Cameront's point, the trailers are far from air tight even when closed up

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

I didn't word that right. at all. Is what comes out of the ducts, oxygen depleted?

What comes out of the furnace ducts— or AC ducts for that matter— is the same air that was inside the trailer. So if the air isn't oxygen-depleted before being heated or cooled, it's not oxygen-depleted after, either.

A lot of factors go into air quality. Temperature, of course. Oxygen levels. Carbon dioxide levels. Carbon monoxide levels. Humidity. Odors. Allergens.

You've already got a lot of opinions regarding air circulation in your trailer. You'll undoubtedly get a lot more. But I stand by my assertion that you need forced ventilation if you want the air in your trailer to be comfortable. For small trailers, the bathroom exhaust fan and a cracked-open window is enough. For larger trailers, a roof vent open (at least partially) and the vent fan running on its lowest setting with a cracked-open window to let in fresh air is enough. Less than that and the air will eventually become stuffy, stinky, and/or wet.

I haven't crunched the numbers for every size of trailer, but as a former mechanical engineer who designed HVAC systems (among other things in a long and varied career) that is my engineering ballpark estimate.

[Loden]

Presuming your carbon monoxide detector is operational, your chances of dying in your sleep in your Bambi are pretty slim, but you could easily wake up with a headache from two people exhaling CO2 all night. You also could have long term problems from the condensation that will accumulate from your personal water evaporation. Thus, it is important to have a slight airflow coming in and going out. My experience is that having the fresh air coming in near where we sleep and exiting at the opposite end of the compartment is most beneficial. Since during the day we spend more time in the other end of the trailer having the cool air coming in from the bed area limits the drafts we feel during the non-sleep times.

[guskmg]

This is really food for thought about Airstream trailer air/leak tightness.
I recently watched as the Airstream Service Center used their Sealtech machine to leak check my trailer. IIRC it over pressures the interior by 3 psi. I noticed there were 3 leaks with some bubbling, but, not large ones. There was also some air escaping from around the window rubber seals. A little more but not a great amount. After a 12,000 mile trip to Alaska in 2010, I had the same test done, and the results were similar plus a coupe of rivets missing. I have had the floor covering replaced with laminate wood. While it was up I could find no water damage. I have, in the past, resealed both wrap around windows, the curb side fixed window and replaced both skylights several times. Also, the roof has been resealed several times. I just had them reseal the roof for the third time. This time it took 8 tubes of Adseal which is a silicone product that is now used for roof sealing during production. That surprised me after all the talk about do not use any silicone on aluminum trailers. Also, this time I had the Service Center replace the skylights with Maxims from Maxim Industries, in Dallas,TX. I am pleased that this routine, even though it is probably overkill, I don't have or want any floor damaging leaks. Which brings me to the point that the trailers are pretty tight and need to be ventilated depending on the amount of use producing CO, CO2, and O2 depletion.
BTW, I also learned the factory no longer uses any tube sealant on the inside seams during production. They use seal tape between the aluminum sheets. Thats what they did when the battery boxes were removed (see earlier post).
guskmg

[scamp]

If the trailer was airtight you couldn't close the door,on my previous airstream I was washing it and sprayed water at the base of the a.c unit on the roof ,once I finished washing it and when inside I noticed water dripping from a.c unit inside so I remouved the cover and noticed there's a vent to outside built into the a.c ,not sure if this applies to all newer airstreams or if this is normal ,but made sense to me as I'm a retired auto tech and on cars they have at the back in the trunk area ( for sedans ) vents with flaps to allow air one way ( out) for the heater ,ventilation system ,air comes in at the front of the car windshield base area and exits the rear through the trunk area at the vent flaps ,also to allow your doors to close easier ,you can sometimes hear these flaps in operation when someone closes a door and you listen carefully at the rear of the car , there is usually two flaps one per side, I'm not saying you should keep all your windows closed and vents on your trailer I'm just saying that airstreams are not sealed 100%airtight. I would keep a window and a vent open a crack as what others have said for moisture and health.
Don