Honda EU 2000s in parallel

[ghaynes755]

Rich really sounding like there is a surge protector someplace on board that is blocking the AC with the Hondas. Start looking to see if you have one of the Surge Guards or Progressives hard wired. Likely to be close to the AC breaker/distribution box.

[Richrexw]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

As I see it, both cords you are using have twist lock male plugs on the power receptacle/generator end. Therefore there is no need for the adaptor shown above.
I will assume the receptacle (shore power) is also a twist lock.
When you test the generator with other equipment. Are you using the 30 amp twist lock receptacle on the generator? Or the 20 amp receptacle?
Do you have an adaptor cord to go from the standard 20 amp 3 prong plug to a 30 amp twist lock receptacle?
There should be a circuit breaker for the 30 amp receptacle on the generator. Are you sure it is reset? The 20 amp receptacle will have a separate circuit breaker.

You're right TG, they are all twist locks. I have a 20A three prong to 30A twist lock adapter, and tried that too . . . nothing. I will definitely go on the hunt for the surge protector as you suggest. Does anyone think it may be the transfer switch?

As I understand it, they function to distinguish between shore and generator power. The "default" is shore power, and the only thing that kicks it off that setting is when there's a generator connection with no shore power. I wonder if that switch is stuck in the shore power position and just won't/can't flip to generator mode?

[Richrexw]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

Rich really sounding like there is a surge protector someplace on board that is blocking the AC with the Hondas. Start looking to see if you have one of the Surge Guards or Progressives hard wired. Likely to be close to the AC breaker/distribution box.

Good advice! I found a Surge Guard 40250-RVC tucked in behind the panel. Any suggested workarounds?


2010 27FB Flying Cloud
TV - 2014 Nissan Armada
Lake Oswego, OR

[Al and Missy]

The Surgeguard seems to be the transfer switch, with protection features. Do you have the remote monitor panel option? If so you should be seeing an error message. If not, you will have to do some testing.

Two relatively inexpensive items, one or both of which you may have, could help pinpoint the problem. Get a 30A male to 15A female adapter and an outlet tester (less than $5 at a home improvement store). Set up your generators for parallel operation and start them up. Plug the adapter into the 30A outlet on your companion and plug the tester into the adapter. Check the lights with the decoder to see if a problem is indicated (missing ground, hot neutral, etc.). If a problem is indicated, report back and someone should be able to help you solve it. As someone said, it seems your surge protector is seeing something it doesn't like and not allowing the generator power through. My guess is neutral is floating (not connected to ground pin). The Surgeguard wants to see the neutral (white wire) and ground (green wire) at the same voltage. According to my Honda service manual they are not. If you determine this is the cause, the fix is simple. Open up one of the twistlock connectors and connect a short jumper between the white and green wires.

The tester is a good thing to have on hand anyway. Use it in the adapter to test power at a campsite prior to plugging in your trailer.

Al

[TG Twinkie]

If you have 2 places to power the coach. You will have a transfer switch of some sort. It is a critical safety device. Giving protection from any feedback to the unused receptacle on the coach.
If it were my coach. I would wire the surge protector into the shore power circuit. The one a mid ship. Leave it out of the "generator" receptacle as I will call it.
There are a number of devices that "don't like" inverter power. The surge protector appears to be one of them.
The inverter generator more than likely has it's own surge protection.
If you do what Al suggested with the cable. You will need to designate that cable as "generator only use". You do not want the ground and neutral tied together in your coach. The 120 volt AC panel in the coach is defined as a sub panel and should NOT be "bonded".

[Richrexw]

Thanks TG and Al. I have some work to do tomorrow. Will make it happen and report back. Much appreciation to you both!

[cwf]

I wonder... What if you had a bit of a load on the gens the. Hit the AC switch... Might be a problem with the Gen building that "spike" of current and the protectors kick in....

[hhendrix]

OK, I just went thru myself with a pair of Yamaha 2000i's. Weird thing happened. First, you need to check the standard outlet on each generator/inverter with a circuit tester like this; 61-035 IDEAL Electrical Socket | 35F2254 | Newark element14. It will tell you it the outlet is wired correctly. It's a good tool to have so you can check 15 or 20 amp shore power outlets before you plug in. Turns out in my case that somehow the neutral and ground got reversed. At least that's what the tester indicated.
My inverters were working fine and then they ran out of fuel (propane) while the AC was running. I changed the tank and started the inverters again and all was fine until I turned on the AC. It would not work and causing lights to blink on and off. It also keep killing the inverters. Using the circuit tester at both the inverters and on an outlet on the AS, the tester indicated the ground and neutral were reversed. Don't ask me how or why, it just was. I couldn't get an answer from the Yamaha dealer either.
I just spent the better part of the day helping another AS getting his propane powered Honda 2000's dialed in and then my problem started. He had a similar experience and told me about some research he did on the internet and found a simple fix. He took and male 110v plug and placed a 12 gauge jumper between the neutral and ground inside the plug. Then he plugged the male plug into one of the standard outlets on one of his inverters and Bingo, problem solved.
I have a pretty strong electrical background and it sounded crazy to me, but I did the same thing and Bingo! Everything is working fine and when I plug in the circuit tester on either the inverter or the AS when connected to the inverters, it shows the wiring is correct. AC works just fine.
Get the tester, they are not too expensive and test the outlet on the inverter. Let me know if this solves your problem.

[TG Twinkie]

I wonder; What would happen if you drove a ground rod and connected it to the inverter?
There is a difference between the shore power source main panel and the inverter generator in that the shore power neutral and ground are bonded at the source; the panel in your house is bonded, if not a sub panel. The panel in the coach is considered a sub panel when connected to the house panel. But! When the coach is connected to the inverter generator there is no main panel; the panel in the coach becomes the main panel. Thus the need for the jumper between the neutral and ground. To make the bonded connection.
Unless there is a physical connection to earth ground. The inverter generator is NOT truly grounded. As with the power company source.

[Al and Missy]

Read my post above, and the one after it. Inside the generator the neutral and ground are not connected. The surge suppressor wants them to be like they are in regular house and campground wiring. A jumper from neutral to ground is the likely fix.

[ghaynes755]

The Hondas do not have a ground/neutral which will show a fault with a circuit checker. My trailer also has an internal Surge Guard but it is only on the Shore Power connection. The generator connection on the front of the trailer does not go through the surge protector which I understand is the way it should be. Logic I assume is that a generator is unlikely to spike enough to do damage. Just remember not to connect the Generator outlet to shore power.

Rich with the model you have it would logical that there is a remote indicator someplace in the trailer that will give you messages. Easy to install if you don't have one. If both circuits, shore and gen, are wired through the 40250 it sounds like it might have gone bad. Just looking at the Surge Guard site that model seems to have an automatic transfer switch built in. If you can see the unit there are display lights to tell you if it is getting power.

Optional 2-line plain English display (display p/n 40272 & cable p/n 40258) with continuous visual indication of source voltage (L1, L2), load current or diagnostics. LCD technology
Transfers to generator power automatically when energized after 30 second delay in generator mode. When both shore power and generator power are available, generator dominates after a 20-30 second delay. Once the generator is shut down, shore power activates after a 3-4 second delay.
Indicator lights on the front of the ATS indicate the presence of input power for L1 and L2.

All of this being said this might be a situation that without a valid ground/neutral that with a modified plug being used on the Honda's they won't work with the Surge Guard. Someplace I seem to remember that someone contacted them and they sent a diagram/photo of how to make a modified plug.

See this post and others like it: https://www.heartlandowners.org/arch...p/t-26375.html

[Al and Missy]

TG is correct. The better solutions are to wire a plug with a white-green jumper as he suggested or put the jumper in the trailer wiring for the generator (the front connector). As he points out you don't want the jumper in place in the shore power connection because it could trip a GFCI breaker in the campground.

[Richrexw]

Thanks to everyone who kicked in to help. Got the tester, and as you all predicted, it showed an open ground from all generator outlets. The jumper solved the problem, and everything works just fine now.

I wish all problems could be solved with the help if friends you beer met and a few pennies worth of wire! Hope I can help you all some day!

[Silverado47]

Same thing happened to me. Hooked the generators up and plugged in Surgeguard. Showed “reverse polarity” with a red light. Wouldn’t turn on. Maybe doesn’t recognize an open ground. I am not an electrician. I’m wondering about that. Also when they are running they handled 1 air conditioner, lights fore and aft, and the tv’s with no problem.
Also a question about one of the generators. It was on the floor, so I tipped the front end up about 6-8 inches to look at the front panel and gas ran out of somewhere. Was on the floor underneath it. Has this happened to anyone?
Thanks for your replies.

Mike Veit, 2022 Globtrotter, GMC Duromax.
Just an old farmer trying to get along.