Airstream designs for the next decade

[Roamin Cat]

Originally Posted by kfrere

In response to those who wanted more information about the purchase of the shell only -

... In April we ordered a 31' classic shell. The shell actually includes the subfloor (and everything below it), all tanks (water and propane), all windows, outside door, the furnace, and a few other things. We ordered the shell before it went into production, so we had the factory install some of the windows and the rest were shipped with the shell for Timeless to install later. We were also able to order the outside door with a round window...

Please send more details and pics as you get updates! This is SO very exciting

I hope you will please share what the unit delivered to Timeless cost you without shipping fees? Did Timeless tack on fees over and above what Airstream charged (besides shipping, and not including your custom work or design fees - I basically mean "middleman" profit)? Forgive me, I do not usually ask such direct questions. Knowing the base cost can help me and anyone else considering this route to set a budget for the rest of the customizing.

I am VERY interested in this path for my next Airstream. I hope Airstream and Timeless (or other trusted companies) will continue this relationship.

Originally Posted by lewster

The towable segment is ripe for this kind of innovation with the emphasis on design, build quality and uniqueness. I'm planning on a re-do of my 19CCD with carbon fiber/balsa core cabinetry, hydronic heating, better space utilization, cutting edge electrical and electronic systems, high-end, hi-tech appliances and much less weight. I'm fairly certain that a limited production model with these types of design and build features would succeed!

Looking forward to reading about your design choices, materials used and why, costs, and of course PICTURES!

I hope you'll share as you go

[kfrere]

I'm giving you some dollar figures because several people have asked, but, I never want to appear like I am trying to be elitist. We saw an opportunity to buy the camper of our dreams (Airstream), can afford to make it our very own, and plan to keep it for a very long time.

The cost of the 31' Classic shell was $44,286. That includes the entire shell (of course), the windows, door, belly pan, potable water tank, black water tank, gray water tank, fresh water filler neck, air conditioner (both upper and lower units), furnace, 2 vents, and everything from the subfloor down (axels, wheels, etc.) We paid about $1,700 in freight from Ohio to Colorado.

I have no idea how much of our cost was for A/S and how much was the mark-up for Timeless. It really doesn't matter to me. Timeless is the dealer and they can profit how they choose. It's up to me to decide if it was worth it and so far it is.

I can tell you how much I expect our custom job to add on to that based on the written estimate (another $120,000), however, the statement made by someone else earlier is correct - in a custom job the buyer determines the price based on the personal choices made. For example, my kitchen sink will cost about $800 once installed. But, it's a deep, stainless steel farmhouse style 2 bin sink that I picked out after a lot of searching and it's exactly what I want. My cabinets are solid wood made on site to fit, and my counter top is stainless steel.

We still have to buy the hitch, a generator if we decide we want one, and a satellite.

Timeless has been great. They said to pick out what I want and they will find a way to build it in. For that reason I am getting a stainless steel desk that converts to a dining table, custom storage, bamboo floors, etc.

[Roamin Cat]

Originally Posted by kfrere

We saw an opportunity to buy the camper of our dreams (Airstream), can afford to make it our very own, and plan to keep it for a very long time.

Hi kfrere,

Thank you very much for sharing your numbers with us, it was very kind of you and helps to put it all in perspective

I am so very excited for you and your family that you have a dream, the team and the means to make it happen! How exciting!

Enjoy the process I wonder if Airstream Life would like an article and pictures when you are done?

Very much looking forward to seeing pictures, floorplan, etc. when you have them to share (especially the stainless steel desk that will convert to a dining table, sounds cool!).

Thanks again for sharing your dream!

[Aage]

qdp,

I humbly submit that it is easier to have a camel pass through the eye of a needle than it would be to get a company of AS' age and apparent mindset to do a radical change to their core product.

So, what to do?

Well: You have the ideas

You have the talent

All you need is the money to do it yourself.

What are you waiting for?

[campadk]

Heck... I'd be happy if they could just provide a stereo that doesn't have rampent hum and a propane fridge and heater that actually run on just propane! Seems AS of late can't hold up to the models of the 1950's... yet they should be FAR superior with all the technology over the last 50+ years! They are as far from green as you can (for those of us dry camping).

My dream is that someone builds interiors as well as those on a fine yacht!

[Brett - TTT]

Change the basic Airstream product? Does no one remember NEW COKE?

[hampstead38]

Let me offer a few thoughts. Owning an Airstream was a dream of my wife's grandmother (dead) and my grandmother (86). It was not a dream of her parents or mine. Is there still an Airstream mystique? Sure, but the demographic of potential consumers is changing. All of the points the original poster made are dead on. There are a huge number of technological innovations that would make a superior trailer. At $50,000+ for a new Safari '25, I have to think some of these innovations could be incorporated into an aerodynamic travel trailer without going beyond the pale. What I think would sell like hotcakes is not simply a more modern, more luxurious trailer, but one designed for "extreme" uses. There is a signficant market for movable shelter in rugged conditions. Strengthen everything, keep the weight reasonable by using newer materials, increase axle strength, increase ground clearance, improve insulation, integrate high efficiency generator and solar power, pre-wire for high tech coms, upgrade all fasteners, upgrade all hinges and latches, create modular option packages like high-intensity exterior lighting, create a "docking" option to link multiple trailers in a configuration, the list goes on. I think you could sell enough of these type trailer for commercial/industrial use to leverage into the consumer market.

[Brett - TTT]

Airstream did step out, spent over a million dollars on design through Nissan, and came up with the Base Camp that met the rough country criteria that a focus group or two came up with. The base camp is NOT taking the world by storm.

[hampstead38]

The Base Camp? The Base Camp is a metal pup tent with wheels. I'm not talking about a toy for two yuppies riding mountain bikes in a California park... I'm talking about a serious rig for folks who have to work in remote locations. The Base Camp has pretty much nothing I think is necessary to get the commercial/industrial sales base to ramp up a production cycle. I'm talking about a company like Exxon buying 200 units at a clip to ship to places like the Gulf, or Alaska, or anywhere. I'm talking about modular construction techniques, the abilty for users to configure the unit, multiple fuel options, water filtration equipment, gear lockers, bomb-proof latches, etc. Once a company had a commercial/industrial sales base and production line established, the market would open to hunters, outdoorsman, adventure sports enthusiasts, government, etc.

[Brett - TTT]

Hampsted said: "I'm talking about a company like Exxon buying 200 units at a clip to ship to places like the Gulf, or Alaska, or anywhere. I'm talking about modular construction techniques, the abilty for users to configure the unit, multiple fuel options, water filtration equipment, gear lockers, bomb-proof latches, etc. Once a company had a commercial/industrial sales base and production line established, the market would open to hunters, outdoorsman, adventure sports enthusiasts, government, etc."

That's been done. It's called a shipping container. Comes in 20' or 40' versions for about $3000 each. Can be configured any way you want and is completely bulletproof, bugproof, fungusproof, rustproof...

The airframe of an Airstream is pretty fragile for this kind of service.

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by Bretzel

Change the basic Airstream product? Does no one remember NEW COKE?

Hi Folks; There is much to be had by innovation. The original poster of this thread is on the money about progressing with new technology. However, until we understand what data and statistics are used for new projections at AS, we may not know which sprocket drives the wheel.
I believe that basic concept behind the AS was to have a trailer that is very light, easily tow-able and to some extend offer comforts of home but on much smaller scale. This was accomplished rather well in 50's 60's and 70's with that era technology. Not knowing what sprocket drives the wheel, it is hard to determine which direction the manufacture will turn. With no offense directed at anyone in particular, I would like to know what drives an individual to request a granite counter top in AS? Wally is most likely spinning out of control in his grave. The concept behind AS was fulfilled by being light with all the basic necessary amenities. Second thought is, it supposed to be only substitute for shelter in remote to your home location. If one chooses to live inside his AS over the weekend, then why don't you just stay home in your back yard. Your As supposed to be a place to prepare meals and a place to come to after your days activity while away from home. The trees look pretty much the same everywhere. You visit Grand Canyon to seeing the wonders of nature
which she has created. Out of your AS window you can only see so much, so you may not be able to tell the difference between your back yard and great outdoors. I do not tow my AS to a remote location to stay inside the trailer all day and admire my huge mirror and my granite counter tops or solid cherry cabinetry. It was not meant to be that way. On the other hand I do not deny anyone those amenities if you are willing to pay the price for it, including towing as well. I leave my granite at couple of places. Two of them are at home, one on the kitchen counter the other in the back yard under the grill. Third one is at my shop, four inches thick and used as surfacing table. Was it consumer suggestions that brought the changes to AS which get heavier and heavier every year? What brings these changes? Unless you are an executive at AS it is impossible to determine what brought those changes on.

While I am all for technological advances to make thing better, stronger and lighter there is no need to deviate from original intent. If you want to sit in a AS and watch cable TV why don't you just stay home and save the fuel? Same thing for the admiration of your granite counter top. I am not going to be impressed with them either, even if you show them to me. My AS is light, with all cabinetry made from 3 & 4 MM African Okume marine plywood varnished with four coats of marine urethane to perfection. Counter tops are 3/4" plywood Formica finish, which looks just like your granite. All framing of the cabinetry is made of structural lightweight aluminum. Frame however is a different story. It is a trussed out design with main members being 2" x 6" X 1/8" 309 Stainless Steel tubing throughout. Cross members are lightweight trusses also SS. Floor is 1/2" thick marine grade ply skinned on both sides with 0.20" aluminum. Floor covering consist of 1/4" cork underlayment and topped with 1/4" thick 12" X 12" urethane finished cork tiles. Cork is naturally resistant to mold and mildew, it is comfortable and pending your choice of design it looks great. Two custom made mattresses at $ 550.00 each, offer me superb comfort after the day's activity. As for electronic gadgets, I am forced to deal with them at home and the office, and the departure from them while camping, is priceless. Every individual has the right to have all they desire inside their AS, but if it is by your choice you have no right to complain about the weight. Perhaps it is the departure from the original intend that haunts us today. Let us focus on the original purpose for which it was intended, and let Wally rest in peace. Thanks, "Boatdoc" : wally:

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by boatdoc

Let us focus on the original purpose for which it was intended, and let Wally rest in peace. Thanks, "Boatdoc" : wally:

Kinda like this I'll bet...

[qdp]

Ok, we still have not learned that design-by-committee doesn't work? Edsel, Studebaker, Fleetwood, and now Nissan -no better. Would YOU want this thing? "Despicable" is waaay too harsh, agreed, but "the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Einstein quote.

What materials are applied does not matter, what context is, does. The LIGHTER and more EFFECTIVE (stronger) the application, the better the product. The greater the versatility, the better (Again, regardless of cost). What functionality does. Time and again in every field, great design is awarded huge popularity and success-in any device, machine, fixture, form or application, REGARDLESS of the cost. GM and Thor just don't GET IT. CCD does, and to expand upon conceptual methodology simply -still- seems worth arguing.....


And yes, you are correct, I do NOT have the time or funds, or incentive to pursue this venue, now. That, btw., I consider your loss, LOL! ;^> #

Quentin

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by qdp

Ok, we still have not learned that design-by-committee doesn't work? Studebaker,

Quentin

Are you saying this design doesn't work?

Photo Gallery

Compare it to our 1953 Ford Victoria, Raymond was WAY ahead of his time.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by qdp

... I do NOT have the time or funds, or incentive to pursue this venue, now. That, btw., I consider your loss...

;

luckily we have other design/builders stepping forward to fill the void.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...van-14893.html

cheers
2air'

[qdp]

Just came across a cool concept that is innovative and adaptable to any customer. While a bit radical I love the innovative/approach.

Check it out,

thecoolhunter.net - transportation

Quentin

[2airishuman]

that unit was shown at the recently completed big euro rv show, the caravan salon in germany.

besides being wildly uGLy outside, the contours appear totally disconnected from the concepts of MOVEMENT.

the clean appearance inside is appealing, but without windows or any hints of the practical side of rv use...

i can see how this example might appeal to someone with zero rv experience, who wants yard art.

perhaps the crapper is a trapezoidal off cant pointy thing too.

cheers
2air'

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by qdp

Just came across a cool concept that is innovative and adaptable to any customer. While a bit radical I love the innovative/approach.

Check it out,

thecoolhunter.net - transportation

Quentin

Now there's a design that should fly, like a rock.

A "Stealth Airstream."

With that design, you can tow as fast as you want, and the highway patrol can't see it on their radar.

Andy

[longdog]

I humbly submit the following comments. I tried to read all the replies in this thread, and apologize if I missed, misread or misinterpreted anything.

I recently purchased a used 2007 19 foot Safari SE. I DO like it and will probably keep it.

I think that the Airstream is an icon because during development in the earlier half of last century, the builder had a vision and a mission to create a travel trailer that incorporated the most modern materials, best engineering, and latest technology in a functional trailer that could be towed by the family car.

I believe what the OP is trying to say is "why don't we take the original AS mission, above, and apply it to modern times?" In fact, when I was shopping for a travel trailer, that is exactly what my expectations were... like the OP, there just isn't any product out there that lived up to those expectations.

The family car is no longer as big as a bus and doesn't have 8 cylinders. Why can't we build a functional trailer that can be towed by one of today's family cars? I agree that to do so we would need to probably have an aluminum alloy frame, carbon fiber shell, improved insulation, etc. The shape could be re-engineered to balance our modern understanding of aerodynamics with functionality. For example, EVERYONE has an AC unit these days, but trailers are still built in such a way that the unit is always stuck on top, rather than built in. Likewise for other roof fittings, vents, etc. Decor is secondary, outfit the interior as you want.

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by qdp

Just came across a cool concept that is innovative and adaptable to any customer. While a bit radical I love the innovative/approach.

Check it out,

thecoolhunter.net - transportation

Quentin

Hi Quentin; I have checked out above site, and while the cars are are making my mouth water, the trailer is a different story. In our life we all have developed different likes and dislikes. The shown trailer is down right fugly to me. It would be plain and ugly in any color and much to futuristic for my taste.
There is no warmth to the interior to feel like home. Perhaps it may be great for work station in space but not the camper. I bet if a survey was taken you would not find many buyers. Thanks, "Boatdoc"