Aaaargh!!! Motorhome won't start!!!! AGAIN!!!

[eraffety]

I am getting so frustrated! After a few weeks in storage (WITH THE BATTERIES DISCONNECTED), I went to go start the motorhome up. Nothing. It would not turn over - I kept trying to start it, then the batteries drained down to nothing.

WHY OH WHY does this keep happening? I fear I can NEVER take it on a trip because of this. My husband calls it a piece of s____t and tells me he is sick and tired of trying to fix the same problem over and over. I am starting to agree.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this keeps happening?

As of today, I still have not started it up because I have not reinstalled the battery after charging it. I am a bit apprehensive about doing so because I think it will only be a waste of time and another drain on the batteries just trying to start it again. I haven't talked to my mechanic (I'm wondering if I should ever talk to him again!) about this recurrence. I will call him tomorrow first thing and ask him his opinion.

In the meantime, I am very open to advice and/or suggestions . . .

[74Argosy24MH]

It would not turn over - I kept trying to start it, then the batteries drained down to nothing.

Is it turning over (cranking) but not firing (starting)? You need to be very specific on what it is actually doing.

How old are the batteries, how long did it crank before the batteries died? Batteries will discharge even if they are disconnected. If they are old and weak they will not crank for long. They also need to have enough power to run the ignition while cranking. Most of the time the terminal on the starter solenoid is a distribution point for power and the location leads to a lot of corrosion. I would check the wires there. Do this after disconnecting the battery because it will be hot and easy to blow a hole in the oil pan.

The gas will drain from the fuel lines and evaporate from the carb after several weeks. It takes time to refill these. If you have an electric pump and turn the key to ignition and let it run for 10 seconds before starting it will give it time to refill. If all you have is the mechanical pump the engine cranking will have to refill and if the batteries are bad it might not make it.

An engine needs spark and fuel to run. You need to figure out which it is not getting. If you pull a plug wire and have a nice hot blue spark, the fuel system is probably the problem. Pour a couple of teaspoons of gas in the carb and see if it will fire (put the air cleaner back on in case of backfire). Isolate the two and you will know where to start.

John

[ALANSD]

My battery requires a charge when sitting for awhile.
I bought a charger that maintains the charge when plugged in, and it seems to solve this problem.
The drain from radio memory, and other similiar drains, although small...after a week or more the battery is showing a charge level on a volt meter of under 12v. I have a disonncet blade on the battery, but the cold weather contributes to the discharge anyway even when "disconnected".
Als of the battery is sitting on a metal surface it will discharge sooner. Plastic battery trays help this. Stored batteries will discharge if left sitting on concrete floors also.
I would check the fluid levels, charge them up and then
If you have access to a meter you can check the charge levels / and get a maintenance charger to keep on the battery when not in use.
Talk to any boat owner they deal with the same issues.
Also - I wanted to mention that its a good idea to start up your generator once a week or so if you can, and that would charge your batteries as well if you let it run an hour or more.

[striker]

after owning a motor home for over 10 years i have learned that it is a good idea to hook up the batteries ever two weeks or so and start it. let the motor home run for 15-20 min. and the unhook the batteries again. this keeps all of the fluids mixed,such as the trany fluid and antifreeze,oil and power steering fluids.that way you will not get dead gas in the carbs. replace your batteries ever 3-4 yrs.

[Chas]

This may sound weird and is probably not your situation but I had a bass boat that did exactly the same thing. I kept it outside and tried to keep it covered the best I could. The way the batteries were stored in the usual RV plastic battery cases was the problem. When it rained the case would fill with water and mysteriously drain the power from the batteries. I guess somehow it would conduct votage and suck them dead in a few days. I drilled holes in the bottoms of the case and no more problems. Kinda like in the old days when you put a battery on the ground it would go dead, but heard they won't discharge like that anymore.

Chas

[eraffety]

It is not the solenoid. Had that checked. The battery was not dead when I first tried to start the motorhome, but did drain rapidly as I tried to crank the engine over.

The engine will crank - but it does not turn over. Does that make sense?

I am literally at my wit's end!

Alan - you said the cold weather contributes to the drain of the batteries - but I live in Southern California so that does not seem to be an aggravating factor. I will take your advice about starting the generator once a week or so (- that should be easy to do?). I've never started the generator. I've never started the gas/liquid propane either (I am a bit scared to do so!).

John - I did not let the ignition "run" for a few seconds to refill the fuel lines and the carb - perhaps this is the problem? If this is the problem - would it drain the battery that much just trying to turn the engine over? I will try to let the ignition "run" as you suggest when I reinstall my battery (which is brand new) once it is fully charged.

I have put in a call to my mechanic and he will be out on Sunday to check on the problem.

Thanks for your suggestions! I will let you know what the problem was . . .

[74Argosy24MH]

Starting a big old carburated gas engine 101 (this is assuming the internals on your engine are all relatively good and timed as they should be and it is tuned properly):

There is a difference in starting a fuel injected engine and a carburated engine. FI uses a higher pressure system and will pump gas into the intake if the engine is revolving and a few other parameters are met. Carburators use vacuum to draw gas into the intake. At cranking speed there is not a lot of vacuum. If this sits for a long time it will take more time to get fuel, the lines will drain back into the fuel tank and the heat from the engine will evaporate gas from the carb.

It is a long way from the fuel tank to the carb, I have seen posts here where members put 2 electric fuel pumps in line to get the gas they need. Turn the key to ignition. If you have someone outside listening underneath, they should be able to hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds while it fills the lines and builds pressure. Pull the air cleaner and pump the accelerator (carburators have an accelerator pump which gives the engine a shot of gas every time the accelerator is depressed) there should be 2 good streams of gas from the middle of the carb toward the front. If this is ok, pump it one more time, going all the way to the floor to set the choke and put the air cleaner back on.

Turn the key to start. The engine should crank (turn over, they are the same). You also want it to fire, the gas will burn when the spark plug fires. Only one or two cylinders might fire, the engine is cold and you are using the vapors from the fuel on the floor of the manifold, but you should hear a difference in the rpm. Only crank it for 3 or 4 seconds if it does not start. Pump the accelerator 2 or 3 more times, you will need more gas. You may have to do this 3 or 4 times before it runs. Don't go crazy on the accelerator, you can pump so much gas in that it will flood and won't start. Don't go crazy on the starter, it will kill the batteries and cook the starter.

If you have gas and it still won't start you have an electrical problem. Bad batteries, corrosion on connectors, bad solenoid/starter or cables, ignition problems, or tune up time. It takes a couple of hundred amps to crank a big engine, that makes the voltage drop and the ignition has less power. Everything has to be in decent shape.

John

[eraffety]

John-

I guess I've been starting the engine incorrectly. Since I do have a carbuerator (and two fuel pumps) your advice will be taken to heart!

I will do as you say and see what happens. I'll keep you informed!

Thanks so much - you've all given me hope!

-Emily

[ALANSD]

Emily- remember this is all new to you, as it was to me, and many others here, not so long ago. Once you get familiar with the methods and systems you will feel a whole lot better about all of it.
As for starting the generator, I would suggest that you do that and let it run as we said, it will improve the operation of it overall.

The other systems need occasional use to keep it all operative. I even run my a/c in the winter once in awhile to keep the seals and all working well. If it sits to long things dry out. Just like people!

[ViewRVs]

Emily,

To add to Alan's comments, check to see if your generator (manuals) feeds current back to the engine battery. That's what my Kohler unit does. If it does, always run your generator while trying to start your engine. The power coming from the generator will give you extra starting power and assist the batteries.

The generator will usually charge both batteries. When my batteries went bad/dead, I jumped the generator with my Honda and used the gen set power to start the engine.

My first sixth months were no fun as I had trouble after trouble and could not use the unit. That's all behind me now and I'm having a great time fixing other things like the toilet!

[Happy]

Batteries do not drain down when disconnected for two weeks. If they never cranked your engine, there would never have been enough draw on them to drain the batteries flat. Get your batteries load tested. They may have an internal short and register 12 volts but put out almost no amps, at least not enough to kick the solenoid in the starter into life.

Fred

[eraffety]

Fred (Happy)-

By "getting my batteries load tested" do you mean check to see if it is a bad battery? (Forgive my ignorance!) I just replaced my old battery for a brand new one.

Fred Hinds -

Thanks for the advice about the generator - now if only I knew how to start it. Is it difficult? Could it be dangerous? I am so, so new to all this I feel so inadequate and . . . stupid.


Alan -

I agree wholeheartedly about running things periodically to keep them from getting "stiff" (just like people); however, I am unsure about how to start a lot of things (like the propane, the generator, the heater, the a/c, etc.). I do have the owner's manual and I have browsed through it, but it seems overwhelming and confusing to me at times. I wish there was a videotape of someone going through their airstream systems (water, electrical, gas, etc.). I, for one, would buy one in a heartbeat! (Perhaps someone will videotape and offer to sell it to those less fortunate in this area of knowledge? I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one to buy this tape! Perhaps one could be made for trailers and one for classic motorhomes? Just a thought . . . ).

As always, your insight and knowledge are greatly appreciated!

[ALANSD]

Well I was lucky when I bought mine the p.o. walked around it with me and showed me most of the systems, and I videotaped her doing it so I would be ok later on my own. The most useful was the awning operation which was confusing at first, and how to winterize.
Maybe you can find an Airstream club member, or someone with a similiar motorhome that you can video tape doing all the basics, like emptying the tanks, starting the gen, turning on the propane, and so on. The tape will be good for those forgetful moments.
Hang in there! It will be worth it...

[74Argosy24MH]

Given your starting problems a load test is a good idea even on a new battery, it is not really uncommon for them to be weak. This will also start breaking out the components in your starting system for trouble shooting.

Most of the systems are very similar from motorhome to trailer. The locations of wiring, plumbing, etc. change, but the operation is the same. Ask specific questions and you will get answers.

John

[eraffety]

I took your advice, John, about starting the engine after I reinstalled the newly charged battery. I turned on the ignition, but let it "run" a bit before I engaged it. It fired right up!!!

I am so, so grateful to all who gave me advice, suggestions, encouragement, etc.

You all are the best!

-Emily

[barrinea]

I know this post is from 2003, but it just got my airstream running again! This forum is such an amazing resource!

[Shinytoaster]

This spot on - I don't have the extra electric fuel pump (325) and the longer I leave her sitting there the longer she takes to start. After the brakes, suspension are done - this is my next job (along with replacing all the fuel lines).

Originally Posted by 74Argosy24MH

It would not turn over - I kept trying to start it, then the batteries drained down to nothing.

Is it turning over (cranking) but not firing (starting)? You need to be very specific on what it is actually doing.

How old are the batteries, how long did it crank before the batteries died? Batteries will discharge even if they are disconnected. If they are old and weak they will not crank for long. They also need to have enough power to run the ignition while cranking. Most of the time the terminal on the starter solenoid is a distribution point for power and the location leads to a lot of corrosion. I would check the wires there. Do this after disconnecting the battery because it will be hot and easy to blow a hole in the oil pan.

The gas will drain from the fuel lines and evaporate from the carb after several weeks. It takes time to refill these. If you have an electric pump and turn the key to ignition and let it run for 10 seconds before starting it will give it time to refill. If all you have is the mechanical pump the engine cranking will have to refill and if the batteries are bad it might not make it.

An engine needs spark and fuel to run. You need to figure out which it is not getting. If you pull a plug wire and have a nice hot blue spark, the fuel system is probably the problem. Pour a couple of teaspoons of gas in the carb and see if it will fire (put the air cleaner back on in case of backfire). Isolate the two and you will know where to start.

John

[T-Bone56]

Are you talking about an Atlas?

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by T-Bone56

Are you talking about an Atlas?

No, the Atlas hasn't been out for over 20 years (maybe 5 years?), this thread started in 2003. Also the Atlas does not run on gasoline or have a carburetor.

[richard5933]

You need three things to start a gasoline engine, and they all must be present.

1) Fuel getting to the cylinders - this is the job of the carburetor on your engine, fuel injection on newer ones.

2) Spark from the spark plugs. Depending on the age of the engine this could be the job of the distributer/ignition system and on a newer engine an electronic spark control module.

3) Air getting to the cylinders through the intake.

The fourth thing would be getting the engine to crank/turn over (same thing) once you have all the first three in place.

On a carbureted engine it's important to learn the particular starting procedure for that engine. There will be a difference for a cold engine and a hot one, and a difference for doing this on a cold day vs. a hot day.

Typically, with a cold engine you would push the gas pedal to the floor slowly and release it. This does two things: 1) It sets the choke to send a richer (more fuel) mixture into the cylinders. A cold engine needs more fuel and less air. 2) It sends a burst of fuel into the engine intake - the carburetor has a tiny fuel pump inside of it that activates when you push the gas pedal. This burst of fuel can help an engine start when cold.

On a warm engine the typical method is not to pump the pedal, but rather to hold it at about 1/4 of the way down while cranking the engine.

The owners manual should give you the specifics for your engine.

With all that said, there are a few reasons a carbureted engine will crank and not start:

- There is no spark or a weak spark. This could be due to faulty spark plugs, faulty spark plug wire, a bad coil, or a combination of the above. On a newer engine it could be a failing electronic spark control module.

- The carburetor might be in need of a cleaning or rebuild. Especially on an engine that sits a lot or doesn't see much use, the inside of the carburetor can become clogged and stop working well. This will be most obvious when trying to start, especially when cold, as well as lack of power or poor mileage.

- The air intake filter might be totally clogged up, there could be a rats nest inside it that's blocking the air flow, or any number of other things.

- The battery and/or starter are not able to spin the engine fast enough to start. Remember that a cold engine takes much more oomph to start since the oil is thicker and the engine much more difficult to spin/crank/turn over.

When was the last time the engine had a major tune-up?