Pully that 454

[choctawmel]

Originally Posted by perryg114

You checked the bearing clearance with something like plastigage?

Perry

Yes I did.

[choctawmel]

Well dang I went junk yard'n today and came up empty on the throttle cable bracket. The TB 454 I've got some parts off of is gone. Hard to find parts for these old beast. Did have a old car junk yard east of me, till the old man died and his kids had them all crushed. So I went to grinding on my bracket. Now my next trip to town need to get some 3/32 or 13 gauge metal and try to weld or bolt some straight back into it. Don't think it will last the way it is.

I wonder it a 350 bracket would work?

[choctawmel]

With out fan fair I think I have the motor back together. Roll it over in front of Silver Bullet and hook the hoist up.

I have great hopes that the new intake don't make it too tall to fit back in. Got her in motor mount bolts in, bell housing holes lined up. Could not find the bag of bell housing bolt. I did find some bolts I shouldn't have. If you look real close at the engine while going in you will not see something.

Well guess what..... I found the FLEX PLATE BOLTS! Dang it!!! Undo and pull back out. Install the new flex plate then back in. This time things don't go so smoothly. I'm under her, in her, under her......... Lot of up/down for this old man with a bad back. I did get her in and bolted up. Had the torque wrench under so I checked the rear transmission mount and the rear X-member. Every time I check them the top ones are loose. I torqued them again and noticed some wood coming from between the top of the frame rail and the body. I've been trying to torque bolts on wood! Now the body bolt are loose and no way I can see to tighten them. Job for another day.

That puppy is in there!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

Got it all together. Put the new intake on and torque all the bolt to 5fp. Then I came to the computer, down loaded the installation instructions from Edelbrock and they say NOT to using the rubber front/rear gaskets to use RTV only. Guess I need to back up and do it their way. Good think I only did 5fp.

Now you have me worried. I went out and looked at my Edelbrock installation and it looks like the builder used the factory gasket front and rear. So now I have to decide whether or not to pull the intake manifold and redo the gasket installation

Brad

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

Every time I check them the top ones are loose. I torqued them again and noticed some wood coming from between the top of the frame rail and the body. I've been trying to torque bolts on wood! Now the body bolt are loose and no way I can see to tighten them. Job for another day.

Yep, the Aistream 1" x 2" steel floor frame work sits on top of strips of 1/2" plywood that lay on top of the GM chassis.

Which body bolts are you talking about?

Brad

[choctawmel]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Yep, the Aistream 1" x 2" steel floor frame work sits on top of strips of 1/2" plywood that lay on top of the GM chassis.

Which body bolts are you talking about?

Brad

Marry Christmas!!!! I got to be a wise man last night.

It's the front bolt before the step up to the cockpit. Goes into the steel tubing of the body. No way to get to the bolt head to tighten.
Went to town yesterday to buy bolts, new A/C compressor, high output alternator, hose for the power steering pump. Just can't buy some things on Christmas Eve. That puts me at a stand still till everyone opens again.
Everything is cover in ice this morning. The weather liars forecast 1/2 of sleet by now with the start of 3-10" of snow which hasn't happen yet.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

It's the front bolt before the step up to the cockpit. Goes into the steel tubing of the body. No way to get to the bolt head to tighten.

If the bolt is under the step frame assembly and is one of the four holding the step assembly in place then you're dealing with a Phillips flat head screw. To get at the head you have to remove the plastic step liner inside and then remove the 1/2" plywood substrate.

Went to town yesterday to buy bolts, new A/C compressor, high output alternator, hose for the power steering pump. Just can't buy some things on Christmas Eve. That puts me at a stand still till everyone opens again.

Which alternator are you going to use?

Everything is cover in ice this morning. The weather liars forecast 1/2 of sleet by now with the start of 3-10" of snow which hasn't happen yet.

Keep your fingers crossed it doesn't happen!

Brad

[choctawmel]

Yesterday I started trying to get the A/C and alternator brackets installed. I have to make new spacer because the smog pump bracket isn't going back on. The new intake manifold is different and the water pump is different, so I had to get the grinder out. Had to cut this ear off the intake so the brace/adjuster nut can get to the bolt which I need to grind the hole out too and grind the alternator bracket to clear the larger body of the water pump.

Today, after the ice melted off the street some, I became my own gofer. Went to ACE to get a longer bolt to change out with the stud in front of the intake where the alternator bracket goes. Buy the A/C drying. Went to the alternator shop and they went about building me a 140A 'dumbly' external regulated alternator. Don't think a 'one wire' would work, which means I keep the 'cheesy' ford regulator. While they worked on that I donation a 'double red' that the blood bank. Here's my catch of the day:


Brad, The frame bolt is on the drivers side. The bolt is inside the tube and I see no way to get to it.

[choctawmel]

I work at it and worked at it and could not get the alternator pivot bolt to thread into the nut. I ground and ground on the brackets and I still could not get the that dang bolt to go. Then I put my finger on the back of the nut and it was turning. I pulled the bolt out and look at it. NO THREADS! The thread on one side of the bolt are worn so bad that it just turns in the nut. Can you tell which it the wear out one?

For some reason this bolt is metric. I went all over the place before I ended up at a faster place. They had one, only it it is allen head. That's fine, I have allen wrenches. Another thing is the amount of adjustablity of the alternator. Only about an inch to travel. The dang spacer and the bolt on the back of the alternator is the problem. Take that bolt out and turn the bracket out of the way and you can use the whole travel of the adjuster slot.

The first is with the spacer bolted to the back of the alternator, the second is with the bolt out and the spacer turned around. I think I can put a shorter belt on now.

[choctawmel]

Can I say, "DAMN IT!" on here? Oh I just did. Got the alternator and A/C compressor, wiring harness all hooked up. Started hooking up the oil cooler line and crawled under to make sure which tube is the 'in' and which the 'out' took the torque convertor bolts with me to bolt it up, and THOSE IDIOTS I BOUGHT THE STROKER KIT FROM... YOU KNOW THE ONES THAT TOOK 17 DAYS TO FILL MY ORDER AND THEN LEFT THE WRIST PIN SNAPS OUT THAT TOOK ANOTHER 8 DAYS! THEY SENT THE WRONG DAMN FLEX PLATE!!!!!! Called those idiots before 1:00. Was told, "We don't have a flex plate to fit a 4L80e." "Three holes should line up." I told him I didn't want to be pulling 10 ton down the road with only 3 bolts holding it all together. To with he said, "I'll call you back in 1/2 hour." It's now well after 4:00 and no call. So, pull all the above installed ideas, bring hoist back in throw open COLD SNOWY garage door, unbolt and is now ready to remove once again. Never thought to check the new flex plate against the old. I know they ask me, "What transmission do you have." Sometimes the internet isn't a good idea.

I don't want to pull it out and leave it hanging on the hoist, plus we are going to have a New Years Day Barn party and I need as much room as I can get for that. I did have high hopes of having this running before Christmas, but I had to do business with the Bakersfield IDIOTS!

[bkahler]

Now THAT is a real bummer

Just a thought, have you considered dropping the transmission instead of pulling the engine? I would think that would be somewhat easier than pulling the engine again.

I realize this won't help you any but I'm going to read through this entire thread just before I install the 454 in my Argosy. A lot of good reminders have been posted here.

Hang in there, you're getting close to the finish line.

Brad

[choctawmel]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Now THAT is a real bummer

Just a thought, have you considered dropping the transmission instead of pulling the engine? I would think that would be somewhat easier than pulling the engine again.

I realize this won't help you any but I'm going to read through this entire thread just before I install the 454 in my Argosy. A lot of good reminders have been posted here.

Hang in there, you're getting close to the finish line.

Brad

If I owned the transmission jack it would be, but I don't. Those cross member bolts are a bitch to get out/in anyway. I got the flex plate off and the guy from 'powerhouse' called me at about 5:00. I'm shipping both the old and the new flax plate to them. They're going to balanced the old one, credit the new one, then sent the old one back paying the shipping both ways. I'm ready for a 2 week break anyway.

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

Can I say, "DAMN IT!" on here? Oh I just did. Got the alternator and A/C compressor, wiring harness all hooked up. Started hooking up the oil cooler line and crawled under to make sure which tube is the 'in' and which the 'out' took the torque convertor bolts with me to bolt it up, and THOSE IDIOTS I BOUGHT THE STROKER KIT FROM... YOU KNOW THE ONES THAT TOOK 17 DAYS TO FILL MY ORDER AND THEN LEFT THE WRIST PIN SNAPS OUT THAT TOOK ANOTHER 8 DAYS! THEY SENT THE WRONG DAMN FLEX PLATE!!!!!! Called those idiots before 1:00. Was told, "We don't have a flex plate to fit a 4L80e." "Three holes should line up." I told him I didn't want to be pulling 10 ton down the road with only 3 bolts holding it all together. To with he said, "I'll call you back in 1/2 hour." It's now well after 4:00 and no call. So, pull all the above installed ideas, bring hoist back in throw open COLD SNOWY garage door, unbolt and is now ready to remove once again. Never thought to check the new flex plate against the old. I know they ask me, "What transmission do you have." Sometimes the internet isn't a good idea.
Attachment 175365
I don't want to pull it out and leave it hanging on the hoist, plus we are going to have a New Years Day Barn party and I need as much room as I can get for that. I did have high hopes of having this running before Christmas, but I had to do business with the Bakersfield IDIOTS!

Hi Mel, I understand your pain as I have been through two flex plates so far. This is the last one from my post in another thread.

"Well this isn't exactly what I got for my moho, this is the old one, the new one is in the coach.


For those not familiar it is the flex plate which connects the crankshaft to the torque converter. As you can see the center part that bolts to the crankshaft is no longer connected to the rest of the plate that bolts to the torque converter.

As you can guess I was less than happy and yes we got to ride home with the AAA. Doing a little checking the thickness of this plate was .121". The plate I found at the local parts house was .111" thick. This was not a good solution so I kept looking. At Jegs I found one CSR 200 CSR Torque Master Flexplates= it is SFI spec 29.1 rated (a racing spec) and made from .187" thick 4130 chrome moly steel. When it arrived it measured .161" so I guess the .187" is before surfacing. For $200 I hope it lasts longer then the last one which lasted just short of 40,000 miles. Anyway it is in the coach and most of my bruises are healed".

The thing is my old plate had six bolts to the torque converter and all the new ones seem to six holes but they are in two different bolt circles giving two mounting options of three holes each. That seems to be the norm today for some reason. I called Jegs to make sure this plate had the six hole mount that I wanted and they insisted it did. Of coarse when it arrived it had the two mounting pattern option of three bolts each. Not wanting to argue about it I just bolted it to my mill and drilled the three more holes I needed.

Also as Brad suggested I just slid the trans back a bit and changed the flex plate in place. I dropped one end of the driveshaft, pulled the cross member bolts and slid the whole thing back a couple of inches. I have a Gear Vendors also and just slid the whole mess as a unit. I was just too lazy to pull the engine or trans.

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

"Well this isn't exactly what I got for my moho, this is the old one, the new one is in the coach.

I had a friend with a Dodge 360 that was breaking flex plates exactly like that. (OK, the Dodge flex plates are different, but the failure was the same) It turned out the one of the two dowels that align the block to the transmission was missing. The misalignment was small, but it would eventually fatigue the flex plate causing the center to break out. Replacing the missing dowel cured the problem.

You may want to check your alignment. I can be off slightly even if the dowels are in place. Offset pieces are available.

I will admit that alignment is usually more often an issue with standards than automatics, but you are having some kind of issue. Might be worth checking. (Here's a description of the process for a standard bell housing at Circle Track Magazine)

My friend worked in a muffler shop and had access to a perimeter lift and a transmission jack, so it was easier for him. He changed so many before he figured out the problem that he could do it in about 20 minutes. Profanity was involved.

[Smartstream]

Vaughan that is exactly the problem. When I got the coach it blew the flex plate half way home. The PO had cooked the engine and the outfit doing the rebuild removed bell housing and filed to realign it on install. The first plate lasted about 700 miles. When I got the coach, it made it about another 600 miles until the second plate went. I got to a shop in Eugene, Or. and with the trans guy found the housing to be .045" to one side. He realigned it and installed new dowel pins as many had been left out. He did the best he could but I'm sure it's not perfect. It is the Isuzu diesel so there is also the home made adapter that Airstream used to couple the Isuzu to the GM trans. I would guess that thin plate was not real happy with the diesel vibration either. Hopefully the thicker chrome-moly plate will live longer but for now I'll just keep driving it.

The Isuzu does well but if it gets to be enough of a problem that I have to pull the engine to do a proper bench alignment, you can pretty well bet that a 6BT Cummins will be going back in the hole.

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Vaughan that is exactly the problem. When I got the coach it blew the flex plate half way home. The PO had cooked the engine and the outfit doing the rebuild removed bell housing and filed to realign it on install...

That's funny. My friend's problems started when the 360 in his Charger had the hot light come on. I made his wife mad, so she drove it that way. It got so hot that the spark plugs drooped.

Replacing the cooked engine was the start of his problems.

I agree, the Cummins would be a great swap.

[bkahler]

I can only imagine what a Cummins would be like in a 20' Argosy motorhome!

Wish I had the money to find out...

Brad

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I can only imagine what a Cummins would be like in a 20' Argosy motorhome!

Wish I had the money to find out...

Brad

It's easy Brad, just take a drive in a Dodge pick up.

[choctawmel]

I too wanted to do a Cummins swap, If I had found a wrecked Dodge 2 years ago, I would have. But I don't think it's a job for this old shade tree mechanic. But then between the cost of swapping to the 4L80e and now the stroker kit, I may have been money ahead to go Diesel and I'm sure torque/fuel mileage would far surpass what I'll ever get now.

[choctawmel]

This came Friday afternoon by way of FedEx. Didn't get to work on 'Silver' till Saturday, but got the engine back in!. Today, after Church, I warmed up the shop and got to work on it. The wiring harness is 'routed' again. Got the brackets, alternator, P/S pump on, again. I started installing my oil cooler and notice the tubes from the oil filter adapter turned. I have never taking these tube loose/off. I tighten the tube connector nuts another 1/2' before they bottom out. Good o-rings I guess. Got my under bumper cooler and fairing on and hooked the the oil filter adapter tubes, but then I could not find the 'cooler ties'. Bought new ones, but can't find them now I spend more time looking for stuff than I do putting in on
Started replacing the vacuum line and then I had to rest.

Good to be going back together with this again!