Oil Ratings

[noiva]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

I'm lucky if I do 6,000 a year with the van. Its life is primarily a tow vehicle and occasional haller of big things. I drive it probably once a month in the winter to keep things flowing and it's never used for short trips. It lives in the garage and doesn't go out in the snow. I consider that this van will be my tow vehicle for the next 10 years or so. I decided to do the Mobil 1 and filter route last year since I'm really on an annual oil change schedule. Its first oil change was semi-synth and last spring's change was its first synth. I currently have 14,000 miles on it.

Jack

Jack,

Before I got my 370 MH I was towing a 30' Avion trailer with an '03 2500 Suburban 6.0 liter. It has the oil monitoring system, and my mileage/usage was just about exactly like yours. I still have the Avion and the Suburban, so I'm curious to know if you have the monitoring system on your Savanna, and if you think it's accurate. If I keep my A/S MH, something's got to go .

Just a side note: I had a 1979 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon for 15 years, towed several different trailers with it (including the Avion), changed the oil and filter every 3,000 miles with organic oils. It had 200,000 miles on it when I sold it, and was still running fine. Very little oil use even at the end of my ownership. I'm not saying that synthetic oils aren't superior lubricants - I believe they are - but on a cost/benefit scale I'd have to go with cost since money is an issue to me, and some others on the forum.

Tim

[jcanavera]

Tim, I do have a system that supposedly tells me when to change oil. Its never come on to tell me so. Obviously because I don't short trip this vehicle and keep the mileage low so I assume that is why the system doesn't turn on the change indicator light.

I've had good life with dino oils on all my previous tow vehicles but did switch to semi-synth few years back with the previous tow vehicle. Even though the current van's specs say a 12 month change was allowable based on my usage, I felt that the synth would make me feel better about that extended change period. Previously on my other tow vehicle, I'd change twice a year when I used semi-synth.

Jack

[noiva]

Jack, If your system is like mine it has steering wheel control buttons for lots of functions. One is the oil monitor. By pushing the lower left button several times, it tells me what % of oil life I (supposedly) have left. I have no idea how accurate that is, so I do exactly what you used to do. I change the oil twice a year if I don't make my own standard of 3,000 miles. Also, my truck is used exactly like yours. Mostly a garage thing. I planned to keep it forever (well, almost that long), and since I have less than 16K after a little more than 3 years, it should last that long. Do you have the 6.0 engine? Also, I have the 4.10 axle. What do you have? I think these two vehicles are virtually the same if you remove the bodies from the frames.

All the best,

Tim

[Warbs]

I only change the oil in my moho once a year since I run so few miles. When is the best time of the year to change it? I've been doing my main maintenance in the fall so I know it will be ready in the spring. Should I continue with this or is my brain missing something (again)?

[noiva]

Fall is better than spring mainly because you will not be allowing sludge and contaminants to sit in your engine block, clog up passages, and silt up the lower parts of your engine. Kind of like the advice they give for lawn mowers in the fall. I am surprised you don't have some difficulties with seals drying out if you don't run it at all for several months. I just got an '89 370 that had not been run regularly for pretty much since it was new. Most of the problems I've encountered have been from irregular or lack of use. It's really good if you can at least run the engine and operate ALL the systems at least once a month - year round. Better yet if you can get it out on the highway about that often. Keeps all the mechanical parts working and lubricated. If you can't run it during off-season, I would definitely use the best synthetic oil you can buy. Start-up is when you get most wear, and synthetic is definitely better at not running down completely into your pan than organic oils. Since you have a 1977 MH, I'm assuming you aren't experiencing any major problems related to the way you have been doing. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[overlander63]

You can also "blend your own" synthetic blend, simply by using 1 quart synthetic oil, of the same viscosity, brand, and API rating, for every 3 quarts of organic oil. You will get most of the benefits of synthetic, at a much reduced cost. This is what the stuff you buy pre-blended in the bottles is.

[uwe]

Modern dino oil is good for much more than 3000 miles. The 3000mile interval is a complete invention of the oil change chains. I believe that it is completely safe to go with the manufacturer's recommendation for the service in which your vehicle is used. ( Light, regular or severe)
Unfortunately, oil analysis costs about as much as a cheap oil change, and the results are often hard to read and understand, otherwise I'd have my oil tested before changing it.
A good quality oil and fiter change every 5000 - 7500 miles or so has kept our family car running for over 250000 miles so far.
the Suburban has had Amsoil Synth and Amsoil oil filters, at 10k intervals, now for 120k miles. The dealer claims that my engine in the Suburban is in excellent condition.
A 3000 mile oil change interval with a cheap filter is worse than running the oil longer with a good quality filter.

[Porky Pig]

Originally Posted by uwe

Modern dino oil is good for much more than 3000 miles. The 3000mile interval is a complete invention of the oil change chains./
/Unfortunately, oil analysis costs about as much as a cheap oil change, and the results are often hard to read and understand, otherwise I'd have my oil tested before changing it.

Bingo on the first part!
It is not necessary to have the oil analyzed at every oil change ... thus the cost isn't all that bad ... considering the value of the information you get back. Also, if you have been changing every 3,000 miles or so ... and learn that you can safely go longer between changes ... you'll actually be saving money. The reports I get are easy to read and just as easy to understand.

[ALANSD]

My wife laughed at how much time I was spending reading and discussing the oil comparison ratings I had gotten , with my son. Guess its a guy thing.
I will stay the course. I used Valvloine synth blend for a while, but I like the idea of using 1 qt synth to add to the dino.
I also will look into changing gear lube for synth.
NOW-- what do you all think about water pump lube? The kind you add to the anti-freeze & water in your radiator? A waste of time?

[noiva]

Originally Posted by ALANSD

My wife laughed at how much time I was spending reading and discussing the oil comparison ratings I had gotten , with my son. Guess its a guy thing.
I will stay the course. I used Valvloine synth blend for a while, but I like the idea of using 1 qt synth to add to the dino.
I also will look into changing gear lube for synth.
NOW-- what do you all think about water pump lube? The kind you add to the anti-freeze & water in your radiator? A waste of time?

Since you're asking what we "think" about this, I'll just say I've never used it and water pump life in all the vehicles I've owned in the past 40 years hasn't been a particular problem. I've changed a few, of course, but almost inevitably after many miles (like 100,000). Many dealers and service shops have recommended I add it, but I never have. My suspicion is that it probably won't hurt anything, and it's not expensive, but I have my doubts about it making water pumps last longer. I've never seen a vehicle manufacturer recommend it.

One other quick comment...I agree fully with the guys who say to follow your owner's manual on oil change intervals. The deal with my using 3,000 mile intervals is that is considered a "severe" service interval for my vehicles. In reading their definitions of "severe" it's just about anything except interstate cruising - no towing, stop-and-start driving, mountains, dust, etc. I live in a very congested area that makes "severe" the definition of our driving conditions. I have family members who don't live around here to whom I recommended longer intervals due to how they drive and where they live.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by noiva

Jack, If your system is like mine it has steering wheel control buttons for lots of functions. One is the oil monitor. By pushing the lower left button several times, it tells me what % of oil life I (supposedly) have left. I have no idea how accurate that is, so I do exactly what you used to do. I change the oil twice a year if I don't make my own standard of 3,000 miles. Do you have the 6.0 engine? Also, I have the 4.10 axle. What do you have? I think these two vehicles are virtually the same if you remove the bodies from the frames.
Tim

Tim the GM van system is not as sophisticated. Apparently the computer has an algorithm that looks at engine temps, miles driven, trip length and timeframe between changes. Supposedly when its time to change oil, it turns on a light. No ability to inform me where it is at in its life cycle.

Yes I have the 6 liter 4.10 axle combo. In van terms that gives me a 9,900 lb. towing capacity. In 2003 this engine/axle tied to the 3/4 chasis was the largest towing capacity offered in a GM van. No diesal was available at that time although a 4 wheel drive option was available with an obviously loss of tow capacity.

Oils are much better today that what was produced in the past. As I noted, a one year cycle based on how I drive the van is well within the capabilities of the synthetics produced today. The once a month drive I do to get the engine hot and move things around is adequate to keep seals and other lubed surfaces protected.

Jack

[Pick]

From what I understand, quite a bit of thought and engineering went into the GM Oil Life Monitoring system. I use it on my wife's Malibu, with EcoTech 2.2 L engine. When the OLM reaches 0%, it is about 8000 miles. I am running German Castrol, 0W30, which is a PAO synthetic, so no worries. Lot's of good UOA's on this oil.

My Duramax OLM goes off at around 10,000 miles. I have been running oil analysis on it, primarily to keep tabs on the injectors.

Like Uwe said, today's oils are much better than they were 5 years ago, let alone 20. There really are no "bad" oils out there. Some are just better than others. Some good values in dino oil are Havoline and Chevron Supreme, which can be had at bargain basement prices, if you watch for them.

As an amusing sidenote, I knew a guy who had a 70's Chevy pickup, with a 350 V8 in it. He went 50,000 miles without changing his oil. Truck ran fine. When he did finally change it, a lumpy black substance came out of the oil pan. But, the truck kept running till he sold it 20,000 miles later.

[noiva]

Jack,

Towing capacities are exactly the same for my Suburban. Also, no diesel even now, and 4 wheel drive lowered the capacity somewhat. They also offered quadra-steer (since discontinued, at least temporarily) which I don't have, but have seen in action. It is impressive, particularly maneuvering a trailer in tight spots. Anyway, I may have to look a little further into synthetic engine oils. I'm getting lots of feedback about their superior characteristics. I've seen the improvements in regular oil over my lifetime, and it's far superior to stuff I used back in the '60s. One last (I hope) question - what type of mileage do you get overall? Towing? Solo? The Suburban gets about 11-13 towing, except in the mountains. Your trailer is obviously heavier than mine due to the S.O., so I suspect your mileage may be a little less, but I've been wrong before I get 16-17 solo, but it's worth it when I hook up the trailer. I'm very impressed with the power and stability of the 2500 series like we have.

Tim

[noiva]

Originally Posted by Pick

From what I understand, quite a bit of thought and engineering went into the GM Oil Life Monitoring system. I use it on my wife's Malibu, with EcoTech 2.2 L engine. When the OLM reaches 0%, it is about 8000 miles. I am running German Castrol, 0W30, which is a PAO synthetic, so no worries. Lot's of good UOA's on this oil.

My Duramax OLM goes off at around 10,000 miles. I have been running oil analysis on it, primarily to keep tabs on the injectors.

Like Uwe said, today's oils are much better than they were 5 years ago, let alone 20. There really are no "bad" oils out there. Some are just better than others. Some good values in dino oil are Havoline and Chevron Supreme, which can be had at bargain basement prices, if you watch for them.

As an amusing sidenote, I knew a guy who had a 70's Chevy pickup, with a 350 V8 in it. He went 50,000 miles without changing his oil. Truck ran fine. When he did finally change it, a lumpy black substance came out of the oil pan. But, the truck kept running till he sold it 20,000 miles later.

Pick,

Thanks for the details. I wasn't too confident these O.E.M. monitors were much good. Glad to hear they are. I guess I need to start paying more attention to mine. My oil change schedule is still based on my 1960s brain. Old habits die hard.

I had a friend in the 60s whose dad NEVER changed the oil in a Dodge car with the old 225 slant-six. Ran over 100,000 miles before they sold it. However, by that time they were dumping a quart every 200 miles and blowing smoke everywhere. Made up my mind then I'd change my oil regularly.

Tim

[jcanavera]

Tim, I do about 11 mpg towing in OD. One nice feature of the big transmission in the 2500 series. About 13 mpg when I don't tow. Funny thing over the last 3 tow vehicles, all have done between 10-11 mpg towing. Even though the trailers pulled by each have become increasingly larger and the tow vehicles likewise.

A 28' aluminum framed SOB, 3800 lbs dry pulled by a 91' Astro Extended Van. 4.6 liter premium gas V6 4.10 axle, 6000 lb towing capacity. 10 mpg towing, 17 city.

A 2001 27' Airstream Safari, 6000 lbs without liquids pulled by a 99' Chevy Express 1500 Van. 5.7 liter 3.73 axle, 6500 lb towing capacity 10-11 mpg towing 17 city.

A 2004 31' Airstream Classic SO. 8,600 lbs without liquids pulled by an '03 GMC Savana 2500 Van. 6.0 liter 4.10 axle, 9900 lbs towing capacity, 11 mpg towind, 13 city.

All towing on the first two vehicles was in 3rd. No O.D. towing allowed. The GMC is perfect as a tow vehicle. It's tall height makes a great windbreak for the Classic.

Jack

[aztlanco]

I ran good old Pennzoil 10-30wt on my '97 GMC and got 287,000 miles before a head gasket failure. I'm getting a "crate" motor installed and I'm going to run the same oil as before.
Ernie
'58 Traveler, 18ft.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Tim, I do about 11 mpg towing in OD. One nice feature of the big transmission in the 2500 series. About 13 mpg when I don't tow. Funny thing over the last 3 tow vehicles, all have done between 10-11 mpg towing. Even though the trailers pulled by each have become increasingly larger and the tow vehicles likewise.

A 28' aluminum framed SOB, 3800 lbs dry pulled by a 91' Astro Extended Van. 4.6 liter premium gas V6 4.10 axle, 6000 lb towing capacity. 10 mpg towing, 17 city.

A 2001 27' Airstream Safari, 6000 lbs without liquids pulled by a 99' Chevy Express 1500 Van. 5.7 liter 3.73 axle, 6500 lb towing capacity 10-11 mpg towing 17 city.

A 2004 31' Airstream Classic SO. 8,600 lbs without liquids pulled by an '03 GMC Savana 2500 Van. 6.0 liter 4.10 axle, 9900 lbs towing capacity, 11 mpg towind, 13 city.

All towing on the first two vehicles was in 3rd. No O.D. towing allowed. The GMC is perfect as a tow vehicle. It's tall height makes a great windbreak for the Classic.

Jack

Jack,

Our experiences are almost identical, except I towed too much weight until I finally got a 2500 Suburban in 2001. I had 2 1500 (3.73 gears) Suburbans before that, but I was slightly overload with the 30' Avion (7500 lbs typically loaded). Towed in 3rd, just like you. The 2500 Suburbans have been fantastic. I love the "tow/haul" reprogramming the transmission does, and I tow in O.D. now. Perfect shifting and I rarely do any manual downshifting unless I hit a very steep grade and the tranny attempts too many downshifts - but that is very rare. My mileage figures are very close to yours, especially towing. You're a little taller than I am, I'm sure, but I'm still tall enough combined with the rounded front of the trailer that wind resistance hasn't been a problem. Thanks for sharing all that info. I'd recommend the GM vehicles like ours for towing without any hesitation.

Tim

[noiva]

Originally Posted by aztlanco

I ran good old Pennzoil 10-30wt on my '97 GMC and got 287,000 miles before a head gasket failure. I'm getting a "crate" motor installed and I'm going to run the same oil as before.
Ernie
'58 Traveler, 18ft.

Ernie,

If you've been following this discussion, you know that I've been of the opinion that organic oil is fine, especially with the improvements made over the past several decades. Congratulations on your 287,000 miles . How often do you typically change oil?

Tim

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by ALANSD

NOW-- what do you all think about water pump lube? The kind you add to the anti-freeze & water in your radiator? A waste of time?

It has never done anything for my water pump that I have been able to see. The same with most transmission additives, etc. Modern Coolant/antifreeze contains compounds to lube the water pump, and help keep scale from forming in the radiator. And since you didn't ask, GM has decreased the recommended change interval for extended life coolant to 30,000 miles, instead of the advertised 150,000.

[aztlanco]

Tim;
I change my oil every 3000 miles religously!
I also use Pennzoil on my Harley and change every 2000 miles.
Ernie
18ft. Traveler (1958)