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07-14-2009, 11:20 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bullhead City
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
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Engine: could I be lucky?
Pulled the valve covers off of 454 in my Argosy 1977. One of the push rods wasn't under the rocker and another one the lifter was out took off intake manifold there it lay. A little history ,had taken it to a shop they did acompression test on one bank they were all about 120 the other bank was 0 120 0 60. The engine looks original the valve covers had been off recently but nothing else on the engine looks touched. Could I be lucky enough that that is my only problem. A friend that is helping me seems to think so he does have mechanical experiance . 90,000 miles on coach .Best guess is it sat for awhile and somebody got in and revved it up. thoughts anyone ?
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07-14-2009, 11:25 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,971
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keep your fingers crossed
I think you could be lucky. Put the lifter back in, reseat the push rod , set the clearances and hope you are in business.
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07-14-2009, 12:13 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1999 23' Safari
Perrysburg
, Ann Arbor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
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Ummmm, but unless I'm missing something here, the lifters and pushrods work to OPEN the valves. If they're out of the valve train, the valves would stay CLOSED (assuming that the valve springs, retainers, etc. are all there) - and that would not explain your zero compression. So it seems to me that you've got other and larger issues.
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07-14-2009, 12:50 PM
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#4
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Iwannagocamping
1979 31' Sovereign
Rineyville
, Kentucky
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirsDream
Ummmm, but unless I'm missing something here, the lifters and pushrods work to OPEN the valves. If they're out of the valve train, the valves would stay CLOSED (assuming that the valve springs, retainers, etc. are all there) - and that would not explain your zero compression. So it seems to me that you've got other and larger issues.
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Sure it could.. if it's the intake valve not opening, no air to compress.
Unfortunatly, compression gauges don't generally show vacume, which might have been handy in this case.
I sure hope that is the only problem, my fingers and toes are crossed for GJ.. but my experience tells me it won't be easy to pull that thing for a rebuild.
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07-14-2009, 12:53 PM
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#5
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Liberator
1972 Argosy 24
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Heart of Dixie
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,659
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Oil pressure was lost while the lifter was out of its bore.
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1989 Airstream 345 Liberator...
1972 Argosy 24'...
1954 Feathercraft Vagabond
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07-14-2009, 01:25 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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I'd be worried about anything for of the missing lifter if the engine was run without oil pressure.
What I would do first is remove the spark plugs on that side and with an air hose and stopper blow into each cylinder with the oil fill cap off. If you have any air flow out the fill pipe then I would be ready to remove the head, possible piston cracked and passing air to the crankcase.
What is the reason for the 60 lbs. cylinder?
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2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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07-14-2009, 01:30 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
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Having a pushrod come out from under a lifter usually indicates an over rev condition at some point. This same thing happened to Susan's race car when she missed a shift and over reved the engine. One of the pushrods popped out. She drove into the paddock, I pulled the valve cover, saw what was wrong and reinstalled the pushrod. After setting the valve lash she went back out on the track and the engine ran just fine after that.
Not to say you'll get so lucky but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point while the previous owners were driving with the cruise control on something happened like a failed speedometer gear in the transmission which caused the cruise control to immediately advance the throttle to offset the drop (loss) of speed indication. This would over rev the engine until the driver turned the cruise control off.
This same thing happened to me in an old Chevy pickup I was driving. Torque converter failed and the engine over reved until I hit the brake pedal. I got lucky in that the engine was still ok, just had to deal with a bad transmission.
Good luck!
Brad
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Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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07-14-2009, 02:01 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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you might have to soak the lifters in oil to refill them. pull out any lifters that compress by hand and pump them while in oil. put them back in and set the valve lash to specs. don't even bother to put the valve covers back on. if it starts, you'll know in 30 seconds if it is toast or not.
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Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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07-14-2009, 02:12 PM
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#9
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
What is the reason for the 60 lbs. cylinder?
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Me thinks too, the 60 may be saying something nasty.
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07-14-2009, 02:52 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bullhead City
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
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Thanks for everyones input. I was checking the push rods, friend said I should check to see if they were bent So I pulled them out one at a time is it possible that I pulled the lifter out.I am finding it hard to be optimistic about this but it would be so nice.I like the idea of the air in the cylinders .I still have the intake manifold off is it possible to check itwith the manifold off. Will be getting new gasket for it tomorrow .I figure it is worth it to try adjusting the valves and see if that helps if not I,m out some time and if it works well I'm sure you will know how I feel. As to 60 cylinder ? see no obvious reason .I have driven it a little couple of blocks it had oil pressure at the time not 60 more like 40 did not smoke to bad tranny works but will not hold fluid.I had it pulled to where it is now I started it up to move it and it blew black smoke .More than I had noticed before as amatter of fact I don't remember any black smoke from before.
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07-14-2009, 03:18 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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if you get the valve train back together with the valves adjusted and the plugs out, you can get a valid compression reading. also, verify that the distributor rotor still lines up with #1 cyl. TDC to make sure the timing chain didn't slip.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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07-14-2009, 06:24 PM
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#12
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy Jo
Thanks for everyones input. I was checking the push rods, friend said I should check to see if they were bent So I pulled them out one at a time is it possible that I pulled the lifter out.
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Very possible, it's happened to me more than once, (with the intake off though.)
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I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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07-14-2009, 07:06 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
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Like Robert I've had the lifter pull up with the push rod on a number of occasions on Susan's race engine but then that is a Triumph Spitfire engine and not a 454 .
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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07-26-2009, 10:16 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bullhead City
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 393
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Finaly got back to the Argosy. 100 plus degrees and earthly duties have kept me from her. Its a no go on the engine. Put it back together and tried to adjust valves the one that the pushrod was out from under the rocker arm almost immediately bent ,tried again same thing so now to plan B. I have a donor motor and transmisssion in 1988 mh. I am currently living in. 454 with a newer transmission po had put in,am sure it was probably cheapest on market but it works .This motorhome does 75 mph no problem not that I do that a lot, just accidently.33,000 on coach I have done 10,000 of it. The engine exchange won't happen for a couple of months .Need to have Argosy ready to live in.I am going to start a new thread on questions I have on changing running gear, front and rear ends Thanks for all the advice and help at least people here understand stand the insanity . I don't think I have mentioned how impressed I am with the workmanship and designing of this mh. From pulling the carpets up without having to take out the cabinets to accessing engine to work on this mh continues to make me glad that I chose it as my new home.
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07-27-2009, 12:09 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Hi, so the push rod bent again, twice. Then I would guess that you have a stuck, siezed, or bent valve. Remove the head a fix it. This doesn't mean you have to have a new engine. Have both heads done. If the tops of the pistons still look good and no scoring on the cylinder walls, you should be good to go.
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Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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