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Old 11-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #21
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The next system is the SPK or spark control system..

Vacuum feed is from the rear pass side vacuum nipple on the carb, and feeds the vacuum advance on the distributer, via another TVS mounted on the forward facing coolant port on the front edge of the intake manifold.
Note, that I have a simple 4 way connector in place for this picture, but I am under the impression that there should be a 4 way check/delay valve there, like this one.
Standard, DSV14.


Here is the pipework.
Pipe going directly to rear connects to Distributer Vacuum advance unit.



I have not shown the last system which is the PCV or Positive Crankcase Ventilation system.
The PCV valve is on the drivers side valve cover and the pipe from that goes into the center vacuum port on the front of the carb.
Simple.

I am still trying to work out a few concerns with the TVS valves...
There are several types. On the Federal 84 MH they are just 2 port units... but there are different temperature opening points.
The valves are painted different colors on the top to tell them apart... I have seen green, blue, and black and cannot find what is correct yet!

Also note the 84 Federal has no EGR, so that greatly simplifies the pipework!
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:31 PM   #22
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You are correct Brad!
I looked in the truck section, not the MH section!
MH section list a CA and Fed version.
Assuming you have the fed, the info I gave you is correct.
If its a CA spec, add AIR, EGR, and Evap to that list. Timing is listed as 8deg @ 700rpm with distributer vac advance disconnected and plugged.

I ave now posted an overview of the 84 fed emissions system, and it should go some way to explaining some of the system, but I bet your 74 is gonna be way more simple.

Will put up a photo of that page later for ya.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #23
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My book tells me that in 1984, the CA Emissions spec had EGR and an Evap canister.

In 1985 this changed and both Fed and CA had EGR and Evap.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Here is a glossary of emission control equipment fitted to the pre 1991 454ci V8's, and what each is, and does. Keep in mind, most of these systems are simple. Most are driven and controled by temperature sensors, and engine vacuum.


ACL
Thermostatic controled air filter, also known as Thermac. The lower body and snorkle of the air filter has several devices to sense the temperature of the engine and the ambient air.

AIS or AIR
Air Injection System. Uses one or two air/smog pumps and pipework to inject air into the exhaust manifolds.

EFE
Early Fuel Evaporation System. Vacuum driven butterfly valve normally on the drivers side exhaust manifold used to speed engine warmup by redirecting hot exhaust gasses under the intake manifold.

EGR
Exhaust Gas Recirculation. A valve on the intake manifold that recirculates exhaust gas into the intake to lower emissions.

EVAP
Evaporative Emissions Control System. Normally a series of pipes and valves leading to canister filled with charcoal to absorb fuel vapors, and later allow the engine to draw in and burn them.

SPK
Spark Control System. Senses engine speed and temperature to adjust ignition timing and emissions equipment.

TVS
Thermostatic Vacuum Sensor. Vacuum valve that senses either air or coolant temperature to adjust or direct vacuum.
Duh, all I had to do is read Steve's earlier post in detail and I would have known what SPK and ACL meant
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:15 PM   #25
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Looking at the 1974 GM emissions...

Your motor was a 7.0l 427 Big Block, and the only boxes ticked are PCV, ACL, and SPK. There was no difference between Fed and CA.
Ok, so back to the specs for 1974. You're saying other than changing 427 to 454 the PCV, ACL and SPK apply to my 74 Argosy. That makes sense to me based on snippets of pictures I've seen in my various manuals.

I'm using an Edelbrock carburetor instead of a quadrajet so the vacuum port locations you mention don't necessarily apply. However looking through the Edelbrock information it appears there are sufficient ports to handle what I'm lookiong for.

I assume the ACL gets its vacuum from the direct vacuum port on the carburetor as does the vacuum advance of the distributor. The PCV goes to another port on the carburetor as well which should also be direct vacuum.

Does this sound about right?

I'm still a little fuzzy on the arrangement of the PCV so I need to look into that some more. A few pictures will go long ways towards resolving that.

Thanks,

Brad
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #26
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I have the 1984 factory Service manual for the Chevy Light Truck 10/30 Series.
Here are the relevent pages for each system.

AIR system.








EFE system:







PCV system:

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Old 11-06-2012, 05:19 PM   #27
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ACL or Thermac system.



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Old 11-07-2012, 06:26 AM   #28
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I think I've got the vacuum and PCV routing figured out. The Edelbrock carburetor has one 3/16" timed vacuum port, one 3/16" manifold vacuum port and one PCV vacuum port on the front of the carburetor. I will need to plug the timed vacuum port since this is not an emissions controlled vehicle. I will also have to plug the the 1/4" power brake vacuum port on the back of the carburetor.

The manifold vacuum port will feed the distributor vacuum advance, the ACL, i.e. the temperature controlled air cleaner and to a vacuum gauge on the dash should I decide to add one. The PCV connection is an easy one.

The cruise control is electronic so no need for vacuum there. I can't think of anything else that would require a vacuum connection. Is there any reason I should add a vacuum reservoir to the system? Right now I can't think of one.

Thanks for starting this thread. It got me to thinking about what I will need to do when I finally install the motor in the chassis.

1406_installation_manual_page2.pdf

Brad
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:33 AM   #29
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On our 345 the HVAC is vacuum controled.
Also the step.

There is a small vacuum canister on the rear passenger side of the doghouse, with 2 small pipes emerging from it... cut off of course!
I think I saw a vacuum diagram in the Airstream Service manual that explained that, but I will have to look it up again.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:42 AM   #30
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On our 345 the HVAC is vacuum controled.
Also the step.

There is a small vacuum canister on the rear passenger side of the doghouse, with 2 small pipes emerging from it... cut off of course!
I think I saw a vacuum diagram in the Airstream Service manual that explained that, but I will have to look it up again.
Crap! Forgot about the dash A/C. I think that does require a vacuum canister. Fortunately I have several to choose from off of the 345. I am installing electric steps on the Argosy so don't need vacuum there.

I looked through the 310 service manual and couldn't find any sort of vacuum diagram other than for the steps.

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:52 AM   #31
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Cool Where is your TPI going to be located?

Hi Brad, guys, Smartstream, Keyair, et al:
Brad where is your TPI going to be located? Because you are planning on using your 4L80e transmission, you must have a TPI . Usually on the carb linkage is the best spot. Edelbrock should have info on location and mounting.
Emissions on a 1974 vehicle over 8000lbs? To use a New York expression
Fahged aboud it! Just don't move to California. But conversely, you have no need to make it a heavy polluter.
Plus that Edelbrock carb probably already blows ya out of the water for emissions compliance. Changing the 350 out for a 454 also blows out the "original equipment" emissions requirement.

In other words when ever we even think about upgrading our "ahem" engine compartment, we break Federal, and California law.
So keep the stock HEI distributor, put a very hot ignition module in it. Summit and other places have them. Make sure your pcv system is working well . I'm pretty sure your 1984 454 has an EGR valve, keep that working. if you get an aftermarket manifold make sure it is an EGR manifold. Keep your air pump working, and plumb into your headers. A "fairly" clean 1984 454, is probably way cleaner than a stock 1974 anything.

Long tube headers are a must, and if you want to be really "green" go with a quieter single exhaust, and put a catalytic converter just aft of the headers, in front of your muffler..

Last mechanical thought, before you put that 454 in . Change out the timing gears and chain for,,, Real ones!

In lots of states any vehicle over 35 yrs old is completely exempt from all inspections, check it out for your state.
OK. Just my 2 cents worth
Keep on keeping on.
All the best. Cheers. Rich.
P.S. lol, I got snap---er---Smartstreams name right, sorry about that Dan.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:27 AM   #32
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Brad...
Here is my mystery canister, tucked in the back corner of the engine compartment..



And here is the clue I knew I had seen in the service manual....
Cruise control..


And here is the Vacuum diagram I saw for the step...
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #33
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Crap! Forgot about the dash A/C. I think that does require a vacuum canister. Fortunately I have several to choose from off of the 345. I am installing electric steps on the Argosy so don't need vacuum there.

I looked through the 310 service manual and couldn't find any sort of vacuum diagram other than for the steps.

Thanks!

Brad
I don't think there was any vacuum used on the dash air in the early mohos. My 82 doesn't use vacuum. I think the newer units had a common plenum for the heat and A/C but on mine at least the heater lives in front of the passenger foot well while the A/C is in the center up under the dash. All the controls are cable.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:54 AM   #34
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Hi Brad, guys, Smartstream, Keyair, et al:
Brad where is your TPI going to be located? Because you are planning on using your 4L80e transmission, you must have a TPI . Usually on the carb linkage is the best spot. Edelbrock should have info on location and mounting.
Do you mean TPS instead of TPI? I thought TPI was Tuned Port Injection and TPS is Throttle Position Sensor. Regardless I have not been able to find any source for a TPS to use with the Edelbrock. Any suggestions?

Quote:
Emissions on a 1974 vehicle over 8000lbs? To use a New York expression
Fahged aboud it! Just don't move to California.
There is absolutely NO way I would ever live in California Not my cup of tea....

Quote:
But conversely, you have no need to make it a heavy polluter.
Plus that Edelbrock carb probably already blows ya out of the water for emissions compliance. Changing the 350 out for a 454 also blows out the "original equipment" emissions requirement.
Fortunately right now I don't have to worry about emissions compliance. I'll worry about that when/if it ever happens.

Quote:
In other words when ever we even think about upgrading our "ahem" engine compartment, we break Federal, and California law.
Sad but true

Quote:
So keep the stock HEI distributor, put a very hot ignition module in it. Summit and other places have them. Make sure your pcv system is working well . I'm pretty sure your 1984 454 has an EGR valve, keep that working. if you get an aftermarket manifold make sure it is an EGR manifold. Keep your air pump working, and plumb into your headers. A "fairly" clean 1984 454, is probably way cleaner than a stock 1974 anything.
What distributor to use is still one of my questions. I have a distributor from a 1981 454 chevy 1-ton pickup that I could use. Or I can buy one of the cheapy HEI style of distributors off of ebay. For starters I'll probably use the distributor that I have.

Quote:
Long tube headers are a must, and if you want to be really "green" go with a quieter single exhaust, and put a catalytic converter just aft of the headers, in front of your muffler..
Right now I have Hedman headers which came with the 81 dually that I stole the motor from. Haven't thought far enough ahead about the exhaust but I do like the single exhaust. Not sure what the advantage of having a cat would be.

Quote:
Last mechanical thought, before you put that 454 in . Change out the timing gears and chain for,,, Real ones!
I honestly don't know what gears where put back in the motor after it was rebuilt. I specified new timing gears and chain but I was in Pasadena CA and the motor was in Pine Bluff Arkansas so I couldn't keep up with what they were installing.

Brad
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:57 AM   #35
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I don't think there was any vacuum used on the dash air in the early mohos. My 82 doesn't use vacuum. I think the newer units had a common plenum for the heat and A/C but on mine at least the heater lives in front of the passenger foot well while the A/C is in the center up under the dash. All the controls are cable.

Cheers, Dan
Dan, that's a good bit of news

From what I have seen of the hoses (heat & A/C) they all go into a common box in front of the passenger foot well. I can however see the bottom of the heater/ac dash control so that should tell me if vacuum is involved. I won't know any more until I remove the dash cover.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #36
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Talking Not subject to emissions inspections ?,,,,sweet.

North Carolina is the same for heavier vehicles.
Some times it's TPS=throttle position sensor, others it's TPI = throttle position indicator, not sure why. Think it's the same thing.
You do need to check out what works with the Edelbrock. The need for a TPI signal to the 4L80e controller is one of the reasons I used a 4150 square bore Holley. The TPI kit for square bore Holleys was just too easy.
You should be able to get a distributor from a junkyard if you have to.
Pine Bluff, Arkansas? Those boys probably put real gears in it, bet they didn't cotton to plastic timing gear teeth.
All the best. Rich.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:46 PM   #37
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Brad

Here is a couple of pics of the dash air in our 75 Argosy. As you can see there are vacuum motors. There are 4 the 2 you see and there are 2 more in the bottom of the box that operate the bottom vents. There is also a vacuum storage tank that mounts to the back of the plenum for the dash

John
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:17 AM   #38
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Brad

Here is a couple of pics of the dash air in our 75 Argosy. As you can see there are vacuum motors. There are 4 the 2 you see and there are 2 more in the bottom of the box that operate the bottom vents. There is also a vacuum storage tank that mounts to the back of the plenum for the dash

John
John,

The piping going into the evaporator looks just the piping on my 74, going into the side of the box. Our 310 and the 345 the piping goes in from the front at the far right.

If I understand you correctly the vacuum tank is actually inside the dash area out of sight. It's a good thing I've been planning to pull the dash apart (now that I know it can be done!) otherwise I wouldn't have known about the vacuum line and those vacuum motors.

More things to add to the check/repair list

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:15 PM   #39
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Brad
In the pic of the plenum on the 2 chairs. On the right you can see the long shadow of where the tank mounts it is on the engine side above the batteries.

It looks like a large juice can about 10 inches long and 4 inches wide.
If you are going to remove the dash air it is supposed to drop down through the right fender well. The tire would have to be removed as well be careful because the box is quite heavy.

The only other way to remove it is to remove the plastic dash then remove the aluminum plate then you will have access to it and you can remove from the top.

You will have to cut all of the rivets by the windshield and along the firewall.Sounds like a lot of work but you will have access to everything above the engine and rad.

It is a job you only do once. On our Argosy somebody had cut the aluminum plate in half not a good idea. So I could remove things from the top. In this pic you can see where the plate was cut the they used gobs of silicone to repair the cut. Just left click the pic to enlarge it.
John
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:53 AM   #40
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Brad
In the pic of the plenum on the 2 chairs. On the right you can see the long shadow of where the tank mounts it is on the engine side above the batteries.
Wow, if you're talking about the shadow on the tip right, that's a big tank!

Quote:
It looks like a large juice can about 10 inches long and 4 inches wide.
If you are going to remove the dash air it is supposed to drop down through the right fender well. The tire would have to be removed as well be careful because the box is quite heavy.
I haven't decided just how much I'm going to dismantle of the dash area. I'll probably make that decision as I take the dash top off and see just how good or bad things look underneath. I'm not looking forward to tearing into the dash but I want to at least see what is underneath.

Quote:
The only other way to remove it is to remove the plastic dash then remove the aluminum plate then you will have access to it and you can remove from the top.

You will have to cut all of the rivets by the windshield and along the firewall.Sounds like a lot of work but you will have access to everything above the engine and rad.

It is a job you only do once. On our Argosy somebody had cut the aluminum plate in half not a good idea. So I could remove things from the top. In this pic you can see where the plate was cut the they used gobs of silicone to repair the cut. Just left click the pic to enlarge it.
John
How do you cut the rivets? From the picture it looks like they are right up next to the glass.

Can the cut aluminum be repaired with a patch panel riveted into place?

Great picture by the way! If you have more from that area I'd like to see them

Brad
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